culture war

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Seems Republicans have this alarming ideology of culture war and they want to gear up for some class warfare.

Might we see some resurgence of attention towards Marx and his writings which have seem like persona non grata in America for the last century or so?

1968 IS BACK. A growing chorus of voices on the right is arguing that the riots in Baltimore and Ferguson are ushering in a new round of the culture wars. On the website Breitbart, for example, Robert W. Patterson, a former George W. Bush administration official, wrote, “The Grand Old Party must decide: Go libertarian, and sympathize with the protesters and rioters? Or does it want to be conservative, and side with the police, the rule of law, and the forces of order? The lessons of the 1960s suggest the latter is the path to victory.” William Kristol, editor of the neoconservative Weekly Standard, observed during the recent riots in Ferguson, “It does feel like a Nixon ’68 moment. Who will speak for the Silent Majority?”

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-culture-war-returns-13076
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
Want to gear up for cultural and/or class warfare? Thats what they have been doing, and largely succeeding at, for my entire lifespan thus far. Let me know when Christians start embracing something more like Liberation Theology or if "social justice" starts gaining ground in the popular discourse. I suppose that the pendulum has swung too far to the right since '68, and it will eventually be time for it to reverse direction.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
I suppose that the pendulum has swung too far to the right since '68, and it will eventually be time for it to reverse direction.

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Hallowed Halls Anthem: Ode To The Oppressed
MisterMetokur
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz78qXLon4k

Students Occupy Stevenson Cafe to Expunge Rapist - Activists IN! Rapists OUT! Rally at UC Santa Cruz
Alex Darocy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxDd9pAFffs#t=141

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Milo Yiannopoulos Schools Crowder On #GamerGate || Louder With Crowder
StevenCrowder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3uATqvcvG8
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
YetAnotherLeftWingStrawMan

Funny that. Looks like the right wing raising the spectre of 60's style repression & the OP putting a red armband on the victims.

Spiro Agnew was a big ball breaking "silent majority" advocate & hero until he went down in a tax evasion plea bargain. They let him off easy, of course, on the condition that he resign.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Want to gear up for cultural and/or class warfare? Thats what they have been doing, and largely succeeding at, for my entire lifespan thus far. Let me know when Christians start embracing something more like Liberation Theology or if "social justice" starts gaining ground in the popular discourse. I suppose that the pendulum has swung too far to the right since '68, and it will eventually be time for it to reverse direction.

It was a revealing question. In 1968, Richard Nixon tapped into white working-class antipathy toward student and black radicalism to defeat Hubert Humphrey. The Southern Strategy was born. Two years earlier, Ronald Reagan had won election as governor of California by denouncing the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley and promising to “throw the bums off welfare.” Reagan would go on to midwife what became a potent alliance between the emerging neoconservative movement and traditional conservatives. The neocons began to share the traditionalists’ belief that, as Burke put it, “Men of intemperate mind can never be free. Their passions forge their fetters.”

Seems that the combination of business interests and right wing Christian fundamentalism have been working off each other since the 70s and 80s now. Immanuel Wallerstein actually talks some about this. Both Neoconservatism and Third Way are forms of Neoliberalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxXZ81irfbI
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Funny that. Looks like the right wing raising the spectre of 60's style repression & the OP putting a red armband on the victims.

From what I understand there is a lot more to Karl Marx and his writings than just plain pure 20th century communism as most Americans think of when they hear the word. Seems that Marx tends to to be very dry as an intellectual. He even somewhat praises capitalism and believes it was not some pure evil but a necessary step toward raising humanity.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
From what I understand there is a lot more to Karl Marx and his writings than just plain pure 20th century communism as most Americans think of when they hear the word. Seems that Marx tends to to be very dry as an intellectual. He even somewhat praises capitalism and believes it was not some pure evil but a necessary step toward raising humanity.

And what was his final goal after those steps?
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Funny that. Looks like the right wing raising the spectre of 60's style repression & the OP putting a red armband on the victims.

Spiro Agnew was a big ball breaking "silent majority" advocate & hero until he went down in a tax evasion plea bargain. They let him off easy, of course, on the condition that he resign.
I'm sick and my brain died 3 weeks ago.

Are you saying the right wing is engaging in repression or are you saying they are saying the left wing is repressing?
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
And what was his final goal after those steps?

Seems he was envisioning some type of classless and stateless society where communities of workers cooperatively owned their business and had full use of what they made. Maybe somewhat like a co-op or something. This is different from "communism" which was an authoritarian government which dictated what each individual did and gave them all a standard stipend. This is my guess at understanding this so you might want to ask someone more knowledgeable about socialism. What I am more wanting to say is that from what I have read it seems that Karl Marx is different than Lenin, Stalin, and Mao who are what most Americans and maybe even most individuals around the world think of when they think of communism.

The communist society (or communist system) is the type of society and economic system postulated to emerge from technological advances in the productive forces in the theory of Marxism, and is the ultimate goal of the political ideology of Communism. A communist society is based upon common ownership of the means of production with free access to the articles of consumption and is classless and stateless,[3] implying the end of economic exploitation. Karl Marx referred to this stage of development as upper-stage communism.

Communism is a specific stage of socioeconomic development that emerges from technological advances in the productive forces that leads to a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely-associated individuals.

The term "communist society" should be distinguished from "communist state", the latter referring to a state ruled by a party which professes a variation of Marxist-Leninism.

The Economy, history, and society subsection of the Karl Marx Wikipedia page is particularly worth reading. First time reading through it although it basically seems to be what I would have thought Karl Marx would have believed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx#Economy.2C_history_and_society

Perhaps the ideal society of Karl Marx might have been what some today call Libertarian Socialism like Noam Chomsky who seems to support the political philosophy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
I'm sick and my brain died 3 weeks ago.

Are you saying the right wing is engaging in repression or are you saying they are saying the left wing is repressing?

I didn't realize that being deliberately obtuse could be classified as being sick.

Get well soon, OK?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
aV6sewC.png

DHPeDj2.png

U3TDe2O.jpg


Hallowed Halls Anthem: Ode To The Oppressed
MisterMetokur
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz78qXLon4k

Students Occupy Stevenson Cafe to Expunge Rapist - Activists IN! Rapists OUT! Rally at UC Santa Cruz
Alex Darocy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxDd9pAFffs#t=141

3lBzObC.png


Milo Yiannopoulos Schools Crowder On #GamerGate || Louder With Crowder
StevenCrowder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3uATqvcvG8


Normal guys dont care about this because we like to fuck. You, clearly, got your wires crossed somewhere.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Seems he was envisioning some type of classless and stateless society where communities of workers cooperatively owned their business and had full use of what they made. Maybe somewhat like a co-op or something. This is different from "communism" which was an authoritarian government which dictated what each individual did and gave them all a standard stipend. This is my guess at understanding this so you might want to ask someone more knowledgeable about socialism. What I am more wanting to say is that from what I have read it seems that Karl Marx is different than Lenin, Stalin, and Mao who are what most Americans and maybe even most individuals around the world think of when they think of communism.



The Economy, history, and society subsection of the Karl Marx Wikipedia page is particularly worth reading. First time reading through it although it basically seems to be what I would have thought Karl Marx would have believed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx#Economy.2C_history_and_society

Perhaps the ideal society of Karl Marx might have been what some today call Libertarian Socialism like Noam Chomsky who seems to support the political philosophy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

His end goal was communism. It's a one sentence answer.
 

mindmajick

Senior member
Apr 24, 2015
226
0
16
I'm going to poop on the next person who says "straw man".

It doesn't make anyone sound smart. It just makes me want to poop on you.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
His end goal was communism. It's a one sentence answer.

To be fair, most people don't know what that word really means - either what it meant in the 20th century or the 19th when Marx published. It has been too tainted by decades of propaganda for it to be "a one sentence answer" here. Many people that were born after the USSR was dismantled can now vote. Just think about that for a minute. We can't continue to use "communism" as a synonym for every political worldview to the right of Ayn Rand's Objectivism that we don't like. It needs to be viewed a bit more critically in hindsight.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
1960's: Big cars, cheap gas, 90% tax rate, blacks being hosed down in the streets by the fire department, the golden days. o_O
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
I usually don't say a lot about those things.

But "Straw Man" is getting about as old as "at the end of the day"
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
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"Straw man" is fine when used appropriately. "Straw man" is pretty much synonymous with "I don't agree with you" now though.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
the golden days.

The last few paragraphs were actually the most concerning. You know I have heard some chatter that business interests have been pouring money into law enforcement since the occupy protests but for Boehner to get critisized for being a realist and publically suggesting that the individual cops in the Baltimore incident need to get imprisoned if they did anything wrong is most alarming. And he might not have even said that there are problems overall with cops in America or that rioters are not thugs, and that type of shit. He just said that a few individuals who got seen on tape killing an individual through illegal conduct need to get imprisoned if it is actually true. And how do body cams actually increase the crime rate in America?

Other, older neocon themes are also resurfacing. For example, New York Post columnist Michael Goodwin declared that New York mayor Bill de Blasio needed to embrace the “broken windows” theory of policing or face a potential civic breakdown: “Baltimore should be his wake-up call. It shows that handcuffing the cops ultimately leads to more violence and crime, not less, and ends up with the National Guard patrolling the streets like a war zone.” Above all, conservatives are pointing to the issue of morality to suggest that a broken culture is responsible for the dismal state of cities like Baltimore.

In commenting on such stands, Frank Rich recently observed in New York magazine that the GOP could seek to profit politically from law-and-order issues to “drive a wedge between Hillary Clinton and those white Democratic and independent voters who defected from Obama but who might be inclined to vote for her.” When it comes to these issues, however, leading Republican politicians are punting. Speaker of the House John Boehner, for example, is backing more federal grant money for body cameras for police officers and said that if the charges against the six Baltimore police officers in the Freddie Gray case are true, “It’s outrageous, and it’s unacceptable.” It’s hard to avoid the impression that Republicans in general often create much ado about nothing, but are afraid to tackle vexing policy issues directly. So far, the GOP has neither shown an appetite for rediscovering Nixon and 1968 nor explained how it could successfully reinvent itself as a new party. A party that does not understand itself is not a party that can make itself understood to the electorate.