Culture of life decides Cigarettes aren't that bad after all

[Bumrush99]

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You just have to love the culture of life, especially when it involves big money and special interest groups.

Petri Dish Dwelling Cells for Research - 0
Culture of Life - 1

Medical professionals, judges, Supreme Court, suffering husband - 0
Terry Sciavo Loving, Brain Jello respecting Culture of Life - 1

 

[zendari]

Its disgusting how some people want tobacco companies to pay for smoking prevention programs.

 

[Bumrush99]

Whether you agree with litigation or not, is it prudent for the government to spend 5 years working a case, building up a strong case, then at the last minute deciding to settle for less than 8% of what you should be getting? Forget about the details for a second, isn't it odd how this adminstration went out of its way against the wishes of the lawyers working the case to protect the tobacco industry?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: zendari
Its disgusting how some people want tobacco companies to pay for smoking prevention programs.

Why is that?

Why do you believe in personal responsibility at the exclusion of corporate responsibility? Tobacco companies lied to the public for decades in order to line their pockets with what is esentially blood money, if they want to be in business, they need to cover the costs of being in business. Believe it or not, this is part of the theory that makes 'free markets' work, in textbooks (firms cover all costs of production, which would include health costs, environmental damage, etc).

It's easier, of course, to simply tax cigarettes at a level that produces enough tax income to cover the healthcare costs of smoking, but you can't do that too effectively in a country with private healthcare.

 

[Tab]

Isn't it werid how everyone is agaisnt the marjiuana prohibition (many liberals are) but dispise the tobacco industry?

What if someone told you they're just as bad as the other, would that change your mind?

 

[irwincur]

Why do you believe in personal responsibility at the exclusion of corporate responsibility?

They have been voluntarily placing warnings on their products for more than 40 years. Hell, cars are dangerous, yet you don't see GM voluntarily placing warnings on them. What about bikes, knives, appliances, food, etc...

If anything, the Tobacco companies have done more to prevent smoking than anyone else. Pretty sad when the government forces a company to act against its best interest, and then proceeds to continue to kick them, over and over.

If at this point someone is too stupid to realise that smoking is not good for you - they would do the world a favor by being dead. They sure as hell are not helping the gene pool.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: irwincur

Why do you believe in personal responsibility at the exclusion of corporate responsibility?

They have been voluntarily placing warnings on their products for more than 40 years. Hell, cars are dangerous, yet you don't see GM voluntarily placing warnings on them. What about bikes, knives, appliances, food, etc...

If anything, the Tobacco companies have done more to prevent smoking than anyone else. Pretty sad when the government forces a company to act against its best interest, and then proceeds to continue to kick them, over and over.

If at this point someone is too stupid to realise that smoking is not good for you - they would do the world a favor by being dead. They sure as hell are not helping the gene pool.

Your argument is flawed. If a car, or any other product is deemed to be flawed, it is recalled and the problem is fixed AT THE EXPENSE OF THE MANUFACTURER.

The tobacco companies have also done more to put their customers at risk by placing chemicals in their product that increases addictiveness. If they want to be in a business that is inherently risky because of the health risks that their product results in, then they are responsible for the side effects of such until they can market a product that is safer for consumption.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: zendari
Its disgusting how some people want tobacco companies to pay for smoking prevention programs.

Why is that?

Why do you believe in personal responsibility at the exclusion of corporate responsibility? Tobacco companies lied to the public for decades in order to line their pockets with what is esentially blood money, if they want to be in business, they need to cover the costs of being in business. Believe it or not, this is part of the theory that makes 'free markets' work, in textbooks (firms cover all costs of production, which would include health costs, environmental damage, etc).

It's easier, of course, to simply tax cigarettes at a level that produces enough tax income to cover the healthcare costs of smoking, but you can't do that too effectively in a country with private healthcare.

This is 2005, not 1960. Even if you believe that tobacco companies misled the public back then, there is more than enough information about the negative effects of tobacco smoking today for everyone to know. Heck, there's a warning on the fvcking package.

See irwincur's response, though I don't think cars go in a category with cigarettes. Regardless, if you smoke today, you deserve what is coming.

Isn't it werid how everyone is agaisnt the marjiuana prohibition (many liberals are) but dispise the tobacco industry?

QFT. If you want to smoke anything, be prepared for the consequences instead of running around blaming the company selling the stuff.

 

[Vic]

There's a short article on this in the latest edition of Time. The feds cut the settlement amount because they are on the brink of losing the case entirely. Ex-post facto limitations, I believe. This whole bit that Bush admin is caving in to the tobacco companies is just Democratic party propaganda. There's been a warning label on the things since 1964, so just what did the tobacco companies lie about?

 

[Genx87]

This is further proof Bush is a liar.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: zendari
Its disgusting how some people want tobacco companies to pay for smoking prevention programs.

It is disgusting that cigarettes are not a banned substance like marijuana. Big Tobaco should be permanently shut down in this country. This coming from a smoker. Cigarettes are more detrimental to our health and our society than all the booze and drugs in the world. If we don't have to balls to kick tobaco companies to the curb than legalize all the other 'harmful' drugs.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: irwincur

Why do you believe in personal responsibility at the exclusion of corporate responsibility?

They have been voluntarily placing warnings on their products for more than 40 years. Hell, cars are dangerous, yet you don't see GM voluntarily placing warnings on them. What about bikes, knives, appliances, food, etc...

If anything, the Tobacco companies have done more to prevent smoking than anyone else. Pretty sad when the government forces a company to act against its best interest, and then proceeds to continue to kick them, over and over.

If at this point someone is too stupid to realise that smoking is not good for you - they would do the world a favor by being dead. They sure as hell are not helping the gene pool.

Oh and I am sure there are women lined up to get a peice of YOUR gene pool!

STFU better than thou troll.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: zendari
Its disgusting how some people want tobacco companies to pay for smoking prevention programs.

You'd rather they market to pre-schoolers, right?

 

[CaptnKirk]

It has been conclusively proven that Nicotine, derived from Tobacco is one of the most effective substances for killing insects.

So, then, there is a huge advantage that the Tobacco Industry provides . . .
in keeping your lungs 'Bug Free' by providing an environment where they cannot survive.

 

[phantom309]

Originally posted by: Tab
Isn't it werid how everyone is agaisnt the marjiuana prohibition (many liberals are) but dispise the tobacco industry?

What if someone told you they're just as bad as the other, would that change your mind?

No, because they're completely different, and anyone who did more than 5 minutes of research could easily see that.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: irwincur

Why do you believe in personal responsibility at the exclusion of corporate responsibility?

They have been voluntarily placing warnings on their products for more than 40 years. Hell, cars are dangerous, yet you don't see GM voluntarily placing warnings on them. What about bikes, knives, appliances, food, etc...

If anything, the Tobacco companies have done more to prevent smoking than anyone else. Pretty sad when the government forces a company to act against its best interest, and then proceeds to continue to kick them, over and over.

If at this point someone is too stupid to realise that smoking is not good for you - they would do the world a favor by being dead. They sure as hell are not helping the gene pool.

Like all your posts, you sound like a stupid kid. Placing warnings is NOT equivalent to making a product safer. This is what every other manufacturer in america does. Would you say cars are safer now than they were 40 years ago? Yea, i thought so, stupid immature flawed logic at work in your head kid.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: zendari
Its disgusting how some people want tobacco companies to pay for smoking prevention programs.

It is disgusting that cigarettes are not a banned substance like marijuana. Big Tobaco should be permanently shut down in this country. This coming from a smoker. Cigarettes are more detrimental to our health and our society than all the booze and drugs in the world. If we don't have to balls to kick tobaco companies to the curb than legalize all the other 'harmful' drugs.

If you want to ban cigarettes that's a different issue. But I thought the liberal perspective was that druggies should be able to use whatever they want to. And in no way should tobacco companies be held responsible today for selling a legal product.

I don't see how you can want to legalize marijuana and ban cigarettes at the same time if you believe in personal freedom.

You'd rather they market to pre-schoolers, right?

They do market to teenagers in a way. But is "Smoking can kill you and cause lung cancer" too difficult to understand?

Tobacco isn't supposed to be a safe and healthy product, unlike cars.

 

[imported_Stratago]

Originally posted by: Tab
Isn't it werid how everyone is agaisnt the marjiuana prohibition (many liberals are) but dispise the tobacco industry?

What if someone told you they're just as bad as the other, would that change your mind?

If their just as bad as each other, make them both illegal or both legal. If you could give me 1 good reason why if tobacco and alcohol are legal then weed shouldn't be I would give you a cookie.

 

[Starbuck1975]

It is disgusting that cigarettes are not a banned substance like marijuana. Big Tobaco should be permanently shut down in this country. This coming from a smoker. Cigarettes are more detrimental to our health and our society than all the booze and drugs in the world. If we don't have to balls to kick tobaco companies to the curb than legalize all the other 'harmful' drugs.

The same can be said for alcohol and fast food...obesity I believe is surpassing smoking related illnesses as the #1 killer in America. However, I do not support litigation against tobacco companies, alcohol distributers or fast food chains...people know that these things are harmful to their health, yet choose to utilize these products...what happened to personal accountability in this country?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

It is disgusting that cigarettes are not a banned substance like marijuana. Big Tobaco should be permanently shut down in this country. This coming from a smoker. Cigarettes are more detrimental to our health and our society than all the booze and drugs in the world. If we don't have to balls to kick tobaco companies to the curb than legalize all the other 'harmful' drugs.

The same can be said for alcohol and fast food...obesity I believe is surpassing smoking related illnesses as the #1 killer in America. However, I do not support litigation against tobacco companies, alcohol distributers or fast food chains...people know that these things are harmful to their health, yet choose to utilize these products...what happened to personal accountability in this country?

According to the left, people should be able to do what they want and then sue companies when something happens to them.

Personal accountability has turned into corporate accountability, that McDonalds coffee case shows it, whenever something happens to you its the companies fault and sueing is in style. :thumbsup:

And whatever it is, its Bush's fault.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

It is disgusting that cigarettes are not a banned substance like marijuana. Big Tobaco should be permanently shut down in this country. This coming from a smoker. Cigarettes are more detrimental to our health and our society than all the booze and drugs in the world. If we don't have to balls to kick tobaco companies to the curb than legalize all the other 'harmful' drugs.

The same can be said for alcohol and fast food...obesity I believe is surpassing smoking related illnesses as the #1 killer in America. However, I do not support litigation against tobacco companies, alcohol distributers or fast food chains...people know that these things are harmful to their health, yet choose to utilize these products...what happened to personal accountability in this country?

According to the left, people should be able to do what they want and then sue companies when something happens to them.

Personal accountability has turned into corporate accountability, that McDonalds coffee case shows it, whenever something happens to you its the companies fault and sueing is in style. :thumbsup:

And whatever it is, its Bush's fault.

Zendari, how old are you? My impression is that you are < 18 years old given your parroting.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Like all your posts, you sound like a stupid kid. Placing warnings is NOT equivalent to making a product safer. This is what every other manufacturer in america does. Would you say cars are safer now than they were 40 years ago? Yea, i thought so, stupid immature flawed logic at work in your head kid.

This makes no sense at all. Cars are BY FAR safer now than they were 40 years ago. In fact, today's production cars are safer than the race cars of 40 years ago. I can't believe that anyone would say otherwise, given today's 4-wheel disc brakes, safety belts, airbags, etc.
To use your pathetic argument, you sound like a stupid kid... :roll:

 

[Bumrush99]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

It is disgusting that cigarettes are not a banned substance like marijuana. Big Tobaco should be permanently shut down in this country. This coming from a smoker. Cigarettes are more detrimental to our health and our society than all the booze and drugs in the world. If we don't have to balls to kick tobaco companies to the curb than legalize all the other 'harmful' drugs.

The same can be said for alcohol and fast food...obesity I believe is surpassing smoking related illnesses as the #1 killer in America. However, I do not support litigation against tobacco companies, alcohol distributers or fast food chains...people know that these things are harmful to their health, yet choose to utilize these products...what happened to personal accountability in this country?

According to the left, people should be able to do what they want and then sue companies when something happens to them.

Personal accountability has turned into corporate accountability, that McDonalds coffee case shows it, whenever something happens to you its the companies fault and sueing is in style. :thumbsup:

And whatever it is, its Bush's fault.

I love how all the defenders of this regime SKIRT the damn issue.
FACT: People were not suing in this case.

government's decision to dramatically reduce the proposed size of a nationwide stop-smoking program, one of the penalties recommended in a racketeering suit against cigarette makers.

This settlement has NOTHING to do with individual lawsuits, it involved YEARS of litigation by the government and at the last moment, over the objections of SENIOR lawyers working the case the goverment decides to go from 130 billion to 10 billion.

The issue of whether or not these types of settlements are moral or justifiable are not the main concern here. The main concern is, Why is our goverment caving in to special interests without being held accountable? Either you are for or against these types of lawsuits, but they can not be settled half ass at last the moment. If the government had a moral/legal objection to going after the tobacco companies for racketerring then they should have never started this process in the first place.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: homercles337
Like all your posts, you sound like a stupid kid. Placing warnings is NOT equivalent to making a product safer. This is what every other manufacturer in america does. Would you say cars are safer now than they were 40 years ago? Yea, i thought so, stupid immature flawed logic at work in your head kid.

This makes no sense at all. Cars are BY FAR safer now than they were 40 years ago. In fact, today's production cars are safer than the race cars of 40 years ago. I can't believe that anyone would say otherwise, given today's 4-wheel disc brakes, safety belts, airbags, etc.
To use your pathetic argument, you sound like a stupid kid... :roll:

Go back and read the post i was commenting, stupid kid.

[edit] to clarify to vic, the post i was quoting was comparing cigs to cars. Just so you know. BTW, it was nice of you to ignore my quote :Q [edit]

 

[cKGunslinger]

I believe we've already discussed this in this thread.