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CUDA vs OpenCL needs a reality check...

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Lonbjerg

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6881/opencl-support-coming-to-adobe-premiere-pro-for-windows

Premiere Pro is Adobe’s popular non-linear video editor (NLE), which in version CS5 (2010) added support for a collection of GPU-accelerated effects with Adobe’s Mercury Playback Engine. However at the time support was limited to NVIDIA cards due to the use of CUDA, leaving AMD out in the cold, due in part to the fact that Adobe was not satisfied with the state of OpenCL at the time
Click to expand...

Adobe's worries:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3972/nvidia-gtc-2010-wrapup/5

Finally, as for where the company is going with GPU computing, they’re in much the same boat as Cyberlink: they want to use OpenCL but they’re waiting for AMD and NVIDIA to get their drivers in order (Adobe finds new bugs almost daily). Furthermore unlike Cyberlink they find that the architecture of the GPU has a vast impact on the performance of the codepaths they use, and that when they do use OpenCL they will likely have different codepaths in some cases to better match AMD and NVIDIA’s different architectures



In the meantime Adobe believes that it’s quite alright to pick a vendor-specific API (i.e. CUDA) even though it limits what hardware is supported, as long as the benefits are worth it. This once more falls under the umbrella of a developer knowing their market: again going back to Premiere Pro, Premiere Pro is a product targeted at a professional market that’s likely to replace their hardware anyhow, and that market has no significant problem with the fact that Premiere Pro only supports a few different NVIDIA cards. Adobe doesn’t want to be in this situation forever, but it’s a suitable compromise for them until OpenCL is ready for widespread use.
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But oon will will see if OpenCL has caught op to CUDA:
http://blogs.amd.com/work/2013/04/04/sneak-peek-adobe-premiere-pro-next-gpu-performance-testing/

Or if the is just antoher TruForm, 3Dnow, "Native quadcore", "Bulldozer will hae better IPC" moment 😉

And it's funny, that despite the facts being out in the world...some people still treat CUDA and OpenCL as if they were equals...this has to stop.
 
Premiere Pro is Adobe’s popular non-linear video editor (NLE), which in version CS5 (2010) added support for a collection of GPU-accelerated effects with Adobe’s Mercury Playback Engine. However at the time support was limited to NVIDIA cards due to the use of CUDA, leaving AMD out in the cold, due in part to the fact that Adobe was not satisfied with the state of OpenCL at the time
Click to expand...
Let me just grab some key-words for you 🙂

Now its 2013, and apparently they are "statisfied" with OpenCL (since their makeing a OpenCL version).


But oon will will see if OpenCL has caught op to CUDA
Click to expand...
I suspect it ll be just as fast.... however even if its slower, by vitue that Intel IGP, AMD APU/GPU's and Nvidia GPUs can use it, instead of only nvidia GPU's, it ll be a win in my book.


also:

Adobe-Premiere-OpenCL-vs-Cuda.png



It looks like they think it will be faster with OpenCL.
While not tasking the GPU as hard (effeciency = less power used).

Adobe-Premiere-GPU-Utilization.png
 
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This situation is very special for Adobe. "Inertia" is the main reason why they go with OpenCL. Think about Apple. What if they won't use GeForce in Macs? Now this question cause huge headache for Adobe, but with OpenCL they prepared for it.
 
NVidia cards can run OpenCL code, too. If you can write the same code that targets everything, why wouldn't you?

Even if OpenCL is a bit slower (and it is on a lot of things), it is still way faster than normal computing at the things it is good for.
 
NVidia cards can run OpenCL code, too. If you can write the same code that targets everything, why wouldn't you?
Click to expand...

No idea, maybe Nvidia cards will have a option to use either.

If nothing else its atleast fun to see a OpenCL vs CUDA, performance chart.

Even if OpenCL is a bit slower (and it is on a lot of things), it is still way faster than normal computing at the things it is good for.
Click to expand...

Its not apples to apples, its AMD card (openCL) vs Nvidia (cuda).
But it looks like in this case, OpenCL is doing better than CUDA is.
 
Someone seems to be far too focused on AMD vs NV, and ignoring the rapid improvements being made in IGPs from AMD and Intel.

If OpenCL on Intel IGP becomes somewhat usable, everyone will be able to make use of these improvements.
If Adobe went with CUDA, they would have access to what, 25% of the total market?
Go with OpenCL and it suddenly becomes more like 100% going forward (assuming Intel plays nice with OpenCL performance).

You seem to be far too focused on NV vs AMD, and ignoring Intel entirely every time any kind of GPGPU stuff comes up for general use.

That's not to say Intel will magically be super fast at everything, but INTEL IS 50% OF THE MARKET. IT IS A MASSIVE PLAYER. IT DOESN'T SUPPORT CUDA. STOP IGNORING 50% OF THE MARKET. You seem to do it in every single GPGPU thread. "NV this, AMD that".
Never a mention of Intel or the future, which is (hopefully) what people like Adobe are looking at.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-performance,3461-3.html
photoshop.png

Look at that performance increase from OpenCL on Intel processors. Hopefully they will work on OpenCL support and speed, and generally GPGPU stuff, going forwards.

Fuck CUDA.
I have an Intel desktop.
I have an Intel tablet.
I have an Intel HTPC.
I have an Intel backup PC.
I have another Intel HTPC.
I have an Intel work laptop.

Bring on OpenCL.
 
Lonyo said:
Someone seems to be far too focused on AMD vs NV, and ignoring the rapid improvements being made in IGPs from AMD and Intel.

Fuck CUDA.
I have an Intel desktop.
I have an Intel tablet.
I have an Intel HTPC.
I have an Intel backup PC.
I have another Intel HTPC.
I have an Intel work laptop.

Bring on OpenCL.
Click to expand...

Too true. Intel iGPU is sitting around being completely useless for most of us on this forum who have dedicated gpus for gaming. It's a WASTE of die space.

But with openCL being supported in more software, its looking a lot less like a waste of space.
 
Cloudfire777 said:
Yes
http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/.../home/shop_mac

Mac Pro is the only one with AMD cards, and its GPUs from the 5000 series. The rest is with the 600 series from Nvidia
Click to expand...



They use both for crying out loud. Quit spreading misinformation everywhere. Trust me, we sell them to our customers in whole configurations since I work for an Apple authorized b2b reseller.


MAC version of HD 7950
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...irtualParent=1

MAC version of GTX 680

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...irtualParent=1
 
Cloudfire777 said:
Yes
http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/.../home/shop_mac

Mac Pro is the only one with AMD cards, and its GPUs from the 5000 series. The rest is with the 600 series from Nvidia
Click to expand...
then it should be majority, not exclusively 😛

Too true. Intel iGPU is sitting around being completely useless for most of us on this forum who have dedicated gpus for gaming. It's a WASTE of die space.

But with openCL being supported in more software, its looking a lot less like a waste of space.
Click to expand...
so true, intel is benefiting alot by this "war"... while doing nothing 😀
 
Rvenger said:
They use both for crying out loud. Quit spreading misinformation everywhere. Trust me, we sell them to our customers in whole configurations since I work for an Apple authorized b2b reseller.


MAC version of HD 7950
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...irtualParent=1

MAC version of GTX 680

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...irtualParent=1
Click to expand...

So angry :biggrin:

Tell me when you spot a Mac with these GPUs that is sold by Apple. I showed you the Apple shop where none of your products was found. But I guess Apple is spreading false information...

Olikan said:
then it should be majority, not exclusively 😛
Click to expand...

Well I did say the "newest". 5000 series doesn`t sound new to me though 🙂
 
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Cloudfire777 said:
So angry :biggrin:

Tell me when you spot a Mac with these GPUs. I showed you the Apple shop where none of your products was found.
Click to expand...



Glad you think the apple shop is the only place you can buy Mac equipment exclusively. 🙄
 
Rvenger said:
Glad you think the apple shop is the only place you can buy Mac equipment exclusively. 🙄
Click to expand...

I really have no idea. I usually stay away from everything that is Apple related (hate them like nothing else). I just posted what I found in the Apple shop and thought they were the only one who made these systems 😀
 
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Oh look another Lonbjerg thread, which reads very much like:

OMG Nvidia
2244097_o.gif


Also why hate on Truform? It was Dx8 tesselation done way ahead of its time (and that is probably the number 1 reason it didnt catch up, not enough gpu power at the time)

Hating on AMD is cool and all, but keep your hands off ATI
 
Cool, another nvidia fanboy crying/trolling thread up in flames. Nice fail kids. :thumbsup:
 
Rvenger works for "an Apple authorized b2b reseller", and pointed out that the comment Cloudfire777 made was incorrect. I tend to take people at their words, and believe someone of his position would know best
(the products he sells).

Why is he getting s**t for that?
 
No, this thread got a lot of noise to cover up the fact that OpenCL and CUDA are not equal.

Some people have being whining about PhysX and CUDA...without a reel alternative, but pretending that there were...since 2006.

And it has reallly taken OpenCL from 2008 to now...inorder to be ready for just one product?
Wonder why...nah...not really ^^

Expect more noise though...facts are some times a bitter pill.

And OpenCL still has long ways to go.
 
Arkadrel said:
Rvenger works for "an Apple authorized b2b reseller", and pointed out that the comment Cloudfire777 made was incorrect. I tend to take people at their words, and believe someone of his position would know best
(the products he sells).

Why is he getting s**t for that?
Click to expand...
Because he shot down another one of cloudfire's inane fanboy arguments. Why else?
 
Lonbjerg said:
No, this thread got a lot of noise to cover up the fact that OpenCL and CUDA are not equal.

Some people have being whining about PhysX and CUDA...without a reel alternative, but pretending that there were...since 2006.

And it has reallly taken OpenCL from 2008 to now...inorder to be ready for just one product?
Wonder why...nah...not really ^^

Expect more noise though...facts are some times a bitter pill.

And OpenCL still has long ways to go.
Click to expand...
Indeed.
OpenCL and CUDA are not equal.
OpenCL: 98.9% of modern PC GPUs support it by sales (well, probably slightly less due to sales of older Intel CPUs, but going forward realistically it will be this high)
CUDA: 15.1% of modern PC GPUs by sales

http://vr-zone.com/articles/jon-ped...-results-nvidia-share-loss-reduced/16037.html
 
Lonbjerg said:
No, this thread got a lot of noise to cover up the fact that OpenCL and CUDA are not equal.

Some people have being whining about PhysX and CUDA...without a reel alternative, but pretending that there were...since 2006.

And it has reallly taken OpenCL from 2008 to now...inorder to be ready for just one product?
Wonder why...nah...not really ^^

Expect more noise though...facts are some times a bitter pill.

And OpenCL still has long ways to go.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you're upset that an open standard will soon usurp nvidia's product, and all those years and millions in research, development, and marketing will be snuffed. It was inevitable.
 
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