CT Governor Proposes A Coupon Tax...Coupon Users To Pay Tax On Full Price Of Purchase

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Devotees of coupons and discounts are angry at Gov. Dannel P. Malloy's proposal to slap a new sales tax on the original price of a good or service rather than the discounted price.

Ending the sales tax exemptions for coupons, discounts and automobile trade-ins are among tax exemptions Malloy has proposed ending to help close the state's projected $3.5 billion deficit.

For example, the tax would be imposed on the $30 price of a blouse, not the $15 sales price.

Gina Juliano learned firsthand after she lost her job in 2009 as a vice principal in the Hartford Public Schools that coupons and sales can help a family make ends meet. She cut her budget for food, toiletries, pet supplies and paper goods from between $200 and $300 a week to $50.

"I turned to coupons because I would have had to lose my house and everything. I wouldn't have been able to survive," said Juliano, who now writes a blog in Connecticut called Gina's Kokopelli that tracks coupons, sales and bargains for other shoppers.

Like many avid couponers, Juliano pays little or nothing for items after matching coupons with sales. For example, she recently used a $3 coupon to buy a bottle of Gain fabric softener that was on sale for $2.99 at Rite Aid.

"Under his proposal, I would have to pay tax on that, which is not right because I didn't pay for the item," said Juliano, who runs classes on couponing. "Everybody who does this, it's not like they're rich. They're doing this to survive."

Benjamin Barnes, Malloy's budget chief, isn't a particular fan of the proposal. But because of the state's deficit woes, the administration is forced to examine the numerous tax exemptions currently on the books.

"It's true, it's a new tax. It sucks," he said. "Every single one of those, however many, 20-odd taxes is a new tax and it sucks. I don't know how to hide it. These are new taxes."

Food items under Malloy's budget would continue to be exempt from the sales tax and therefore not affected by the proposed coupon and discount exemption rollback which is projected to bring in $92 million in revenue over the two-year, nearly $40 billion budget. The coupon exemption is among many sales tax exemptions the new governor has proposed ending.

Malloy has also proposed raising the sales tax rate from 6 percent to 6.35 percent for retail purchases and ending the $50 exemption for clothing and footwear.

Kristen Ellis, a Connecticut blogger who writes "Funbeingfrugal.com" about ways to live inexpensively, said she and her husband are on unemployment compensation and have to count pennies and carefully plan their shopping.

"How can you tax me on what I did not spend? The short answer is, you can't," she said.
Ellis cites legal definitions of a "sales tax" and how they indicate a sales tax is to be levied on the sale price paid by consumers. She also cites a state law that says "all coupons and scan cards reduce taxable price."

"If Mr. Malloy follows through with this proposal, he is opening himself and the state up to legal action," Ellis wrote on her blog.

Barnes said the administration will need to change state law to collect taxes on the pre-discounted amount. "We can't do it by administrative fiat," he said.

Timothy Phelan, president of the Connecticut Retail Merchants Association, said he's concerned that many of the exemptions Malloy has proposed repealing - proposals to raise the sales tax and luxury tax - will affect retailers. Shoppers may instead buy on the internet where sales taxes are not charged on many items, he said.

"It's a loss for the state because they won't get that sales tax revenue and it's certainly a loss for the retail community," Phelan said.

Car dealers also are concerned about Malloy's plans to end the sales tax exemption for auto trade-ins, a proposal that would raise $81.8 million over two years. Currently, consumers pay tax on a new car minus the value of a car they are trading in to the dealer.

Under this proposal, that trade-in - essentially a coupon against the price of the new car - would no longer count.

James Fleming, president of the Connecticut Automotive Retailers Association, said he believes such a move will make it more difficult for consumers to qualify for a car loan because they often use the value of the trade-in toward a down payment. Under Malloy's plan, the trade-in value would be reduced by the sales tax.

"My dealers will say people will walk out of a showroom over a $20 a month increase in a car payment," he said.

Connecticut residents will ultimately have to pay the tax if they buy the car from an out-of-state dealership, but Fleming said it's been shown in other states that those consumers will go to that out-of-state dealership for repairs and oil changes.
He estimates Malloy's proposal could lead to possibly 500 layoffs across the state.

"The experience in other states is it's a loser. It's a big, big loser," he said.
Source: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/politics&id=7984963

Another stupid tax?

Also what is this "$50 exemption for clothing and footwear" that was mentioned in the article?
Anyone from CT want to shed more light on this?
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Got a coupon for 30% a Blu-Ray player? If the Connecticut governor gets his way, you'd still be paying sales tax on that player's full price.

Governor Dannel P. Malloy isn't earning many fans with his proposal, one of many measures his government is considering in the face of a huge budget shortfall.

"It's true, it's a new tax. It sucks," the governor's budget chief said. "Every single one of those, however many, 20-odd taxes is a new tax and it sucks. I don't know how to hide it. These are new taxes."

Hartford Courant columnist Dan Haar doesn't just think it sucks. He writes that it "flies in the face of basic commerce. It's not just voodoo economics, it's imaginary economics."


Haar points out that there are just too many instances where the state would be charging consumers taxes on a full price that would never have been paid:
The suit you see advertised on the Joseph A. Bank web site this morning for $169, "regularly $550?" Good luck trying to pay $550 for it, ever. When the store does charge full price, it will give you two other suits for no extra charge, or maybe a suit and two shirts, or on a bad day, just one extra suit... Ever see the list price of a camera? It's a joke. There isn't a store in America that charges list for a camera. Some use coupons, others "special deals," others just set the low rate — as they see fit.
He believes that the proposed tax is "the state taking away the ability of merchants to offer the deals they want, how they want, timed to meet their needs."
http://consumerist.com/2011/02/conn...ers-to-pay-tax-on-full-price-of-purchase.html
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
That's a direct tax on the poor and middle class, and at a time when they are hurting. And this is in the NE, land of the party for the poor?
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
11
0
Cell phone carriers already do this. They sell you up on the discounted price for their phones with a 2-year contract but then charge you tax on the full price of the phone.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
States need money and are eager to see how much blood they can get from turnips. Between taxing bicycles and removing "exemptions" (i.e. charging you sales tax at a higher percentage if you are audacious enough to use a coupon), I think they'll soon find out just how much blood the turnip has.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Cell phone carriers already do this. They sell you up on the discounted price for their phones with a 2-year contract but then charge you tax on the full price of the phone.
Cell phone carriers don't charge tax - government does.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Cell phone carriers already do this. They sell you up on the discounted price for their phones with a 2-year contract but then charge you tax on the full price of the phone.

That's different. That's a rebate, not a price reduction.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
That's a direct tax on the poor and middle class, and at a time when they are hurting. And this is in the NE, land of the party for the poor?

Yeah, I'm surprised this isn't being bitched about more...I mean, isn't this the same argument the Left uses against a consumption-based tax (such as a VAT) as a replacement for income taxes?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,765
18,045
146
I live just north of CT, in MA. I shop in CT because of lower taxes(Not always or for everything)....They're not taking into account the revenue lost from us massholes not shopping in their state any longer, pity.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
That's a direct tax on the poor and middle class, and at a time when they are hurting. And this is in the NE, land of the party for the poor?

LOL, you think rich people don't pinch pennies?

The stingiest person I know is worth 250+ million.
 

dfuze

Lifer
Feb 15, 2006
11,953
0
71
<-- from CT

Just heard about this on the news last night. I think it's pretty rediculous and think he'll have a hard time gaining enough support for this part of his budget gap plan to pass it.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
I live just north of CT, in MA. I shop in CT because of lower taxes(Not always or for everything)....They're not taking into account the revenue lost from us massholes not shopping in their state any longer, pity.

When do they ever consider unintended consequences?
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
11
0
I live just north of CT, in MA. I shop in CT because of lower taxes(Not always or for everything)....They're not taking into account the revenue lost from us massholes not shopping in their state any longer, pity.
Because they assume you're going to pay the Use Tax come tax time.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,676
2,430
126
Source: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/politics&id=7984963

Another stupid tax?

Also what is this "$50 exemption for clothing and footwear" that was mentioned in the article?
Anyone from CT want to shed more light on this?

I'm from CT. First of all, this is the governor's proposal-it still has to be acted upon by the Legislature. Secondly this governor (newly elected in Nov) has surprised me how he is growing into the office. One of his mantras is that the state is going to use generally accepted accounting procedures from here on out-no more smoke and mirrors. He's willing to undertake the pain now to cure our past sins. Its extremely refreshing and unusual to hear a politician from any party say that, but especially refreshing to hear a Democrat say it.

This governor is currently on a set of townhall meetings across the state to get public feedback. He's also actively reaching out to the business community-something no governor here has done in decades. For example, just yesterday he held a public forum with the CFO of United Technologies (Pratt & Whitney, etc.-the major industrial employer in the state)-a person most famous for stating last year that when evaluating locations for new plants "every other place is low cost compared to Connecticut."

His new budget proposal carries a lot of pain with it-increased taxes, vanishing tax exemptions and give backs (the state has given a $550 property tax credit for decades, that will be gone), and if my memory is correct, something like $2B in union concessions.

As far as the $50 clothing exemption, CT has had that for years also (groceries are also exempt from sales tax). You buy some clothes for your kid, no sales tax. You buy a $700 suit it's fully taxable. Eliminating that $50 exemption, the grocery exemption and the $550 property tax credit (along with a similar credit for renters) is going to hit everyone in the state, but I think most people realize it is fair and necessary.

As far as the "coupon tax" goes, I don't think that will pass although there isn't (yet) a huge outcry against it. It's unfair and probably unworkable, especially in this age of "instant rebates" and the like.

Frankly I saw a world of difference between CT's proposed budget and the WI's governor's proposed budget, which will greatly cut state funding of education, etc. while at the same time prohibiting localities from raising taxes to make up the shortfall. I've lived in both states and in many ways I always preferred Wisconsin more, but I can't but help conclude WI is on the way down and CT on the way up in the long term.
 

dfuze

Lifer
Feb 15, 2006
11,953
0
71
I live just north of CT, in MA. I shop in CT because of lower taxes(Not always or for everything)....They're not taking into account the revenue lost from us massholes not shopping in their state any longer, pity.

I used to do the opposite and go into MA often for some of the bigger purchases or gas since until recently you had the lower tax rate.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,676
2,430
126
I live just north of CT, in MA. I shop in CT because of lower taxes(Not always or for everything)....They're not taking into account the revenue lost from us massholes not shopping in their state any longer, pity.

And those of us in CT visit your fair commonwealth to buy cheap gasoline and booze on Sundays (the last vestige of our Blue Laws).
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
yea no shit, everyone does this. you don't get rich or stay rich by wasting money

But there's a big difference between frugality because you want your family to eat and frugality because you want your stack bigger.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
0
And those of us in northeastern MA go up in NH, land of no sales tax and fireworks. :awe:
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,329
28,587
136
I live just north of CT, in MA. I shop in CT because of lower taxes(Not always or for everything)....They're not taking into account the revenue lost from us massholes not shopping in their state any longer, pity.
If it means less massholes driving 55 in the passing lane, bring on the coupon tax!
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,676
2,430
126
And those of us in northeastern MA go up in NH, land of no sales tax and fireworks. :awe:

You forgot cheap state liquor stores as well. Just don't live there or buy a vacation cottage-NH has insanely high property taxes. I was once offered a $50,000 cottage there-the taxes were higher than those on my home.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,765
18,045
146
But there's a big difference between frugality because you want your family to eat and frugality because you want your stack bigger.

Seriously...How many millionaires sit down at night to cut coupons or do a meal budget so they know exactly what they can spend and plan it all out...
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,765
18,045
146
If it means less massholes driving 55 in the passing lane, bring on the coupon tax!

That isn't me dude, I'm with you on that. On the flip side, I've seen CT drivers come up to MA and get lost in the rotary...funny stuff.