Cspan showing entire Kerry testimony

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
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Cspan is showing the entire Kerry testimony of 1971. I didn't see it but listening to the callers, most of them came away with a very favorable outlook on John Kerry. One guy said all he had ever seen was the bits and pieces from the swiftboat ads. But after seeing the entire testimony he said it really looks like they are liars and that the ads are very misleading. I think they are re-airing it at 11pm eastern time again. Anyone see it?
 

Megamorph

Senior member
Nov 25, 2001
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Yes, I watched it and can't imagine how anyone could watch it and come away with a favorable opinion of John Kerry, unless the person is purely anti-war. I am somewhat biased b/c I am a Republican, but I don't think that changes the facts.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
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It's far more passionate and moving than any speech he's made since.


...unless the person is purely anti-war.

You're pro-war?

I think it should be used only as a last resort, after all other means have been exhausted. Neither Vietnam nor Iraq meets those conditions. So color me anti-war I guess.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: Megamorph
Yes, I watched it and can't imagine how anyone could watch it and come away with a favorable opinion of John Kerry, unless the person is purely anti-war. I am somewhat biased b/c I am a Republican, but I don't think that changes the facts.

How a person who is anti-unnessecary wars?
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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How old was he in 1971?

Wasn't that like 33 years ago?

Bush was snorting cocaine and getting drunk driving tickets back then -- and he was a boy from a wealthy and powerful family.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,501
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Originally posted by: dahunan
How old was he in 1971?

Wasn't that like 33 years ago?

Bush was snorting cocaine and getting drunk driving tickets back then -- and he was a boy from a wealthy and powerful family.

Was Bush snorting cocaine in front of Congress while it was being taped?
 

rextilleon

Member
Feb 19, 2004
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By the way, many many many Americans agreed with John Kerry's analysis of Vietnam---We are living in a time where the right wing is trying to sell us a revsionist history--make what was basically an immoral war into something noble.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
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I agree with it completely. It was an immoral and unnecessary war. Even McNamara (one of the architects of the direction the war took) now admits it was folly and to do it again he would not send troops to Vietnam.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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I've only been reading these forums for a day, but man, you have the best right-wing conspiracy theories I've ever heard. Remember, the plane can't fly without the right wing. :cool:

I learned about the Vietnam war from the most liberal person I've ever known, a history teach, and even he says that it was arguably more important than WW II in protecting the world at large. A terrible price was paid, but it prevented an even more terrible price from being paid in the future.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
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wtf are you talking about? Vietnam did more harm to this country than any other war in modern times. It literally ripped this country in half, and now with these damn swiftboat ads it seems like we are reliving it again.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
wtf are you talking about? Vietnam did more harm to this country than any other war in modern times. It literally ripped this country in half, and now with these damn swiftboat ads it seems like we are reliving it again.

It splintered public opinion. Why? Because the general public didn't understand what was going on or what was at stake, and maybe we still don't. I, for one, hold the opinion that it was pre-emption: stopping the spred of communism (really, the spread of Russian power) into Korea and Vietnam cost the USSR more than it could afford and convinced them to stop trying to spread its empire. If we hadn't, Lord knows what kind of mess we would have been in. The cost of war is always too high, but sometimes it's the price that must be paid to prevent a more terrible price from being paid, whether or not history looks favorably upon the actions taken at the time. As one of my friends said recently, "I almost wish Gore would have been elected just so people could see how screwed up we are now." It's the same kind of thing: it's easy to second guess the action without knowing the alternate consequences.

It's funny, or kind of sad, reading Kerry's testimony about how he and the vets came back to a country "that doesn't really care, that doesn't really care," and now he, among others, is helping to give the Iraq war the same image. I don't think public backlash against the soldiers will be as bad, but I would imagine that a lot of them are going to come back with some pretty serious issues similar to the guys in Vietnam. People saying how useless the war is really kicks sand in their eyes, which is exactly what Kerry campaigned so fervently against in 1971.

[edit]Another excerpt from Kerry's testimony:
We are asking Americans to think about that because how do you ask a man to be the last man to dies in Vietnam? How do ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? But we are trying to do that, and we are doing it with thousands of rationalizations, and if you read carefully the President's last speech to the people of this country, you can see that he says, and says clearly:
But the issue, gentlemen, the issue is communism, and the question is whether or not we will leave that country to the communists or whether or not we will try to give it hope to be a free people.
But the point is they are not a free people now under us. They are not a free people, and we cannot fight communism all over the world, and I think we should have learned that lesson by now.
This just strikes me as short-sighted. Sure, the Vietnamese were not at peace in the short run. Neither is Iraq now. However, in the long run, are they better off?[/edit]
 

rextilleon

Member
Feb 19, 2004
156
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Cyclo---LOL--you people are shameless---Did this "liberal " teacher tell you about Uncle Ho asking for our help? Did he tell you that after South Vietnam fell , the rest of Asia did not--thus destroying the raison d'etre of the cold warriors--the discredited "Domino Theory"
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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Originally posted by: rextilleon
Cyclo---LOL--you people are shameless---Did this "liberal " teacher tell you about Uncle Ho asking for our help? Did he tell you that after South Vietnam fell , the rest of Asia did not--thus destroying the raison d'etre of the cold warriors--the discredited "Domino Theory"

Good... I like the 'you people' part particularly, but you left out your explicit right-wing conspiracy statement this post. :p

Anyway, I already stated what I think about the domino theory:
Because the general public didn't understand what was going on or what was at stake, and maybe we still don't. I, for one, hold the opinion that it was pre-emption: stopping the spred of communism (really, the spread of Russian power) into Korea and Vietnam cost the USSR more than it could afford and convinced them to stop trying to spread its empire.
 
May 10, 2001
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How old was he in 1971?

Wasn't that like 33 years ago?

Bush was snorting cocaine and getting drunk driving tickets back then -- and he was a boy from a wealthy and powerful family.
yea, at 22 no one has their crap together.

the difference is that Kerry is trying to say that his not having himself together makes him more qualified for president than bush. Did he have his more together than bush when he aided and abided the enemy in the torture of our POWs?
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
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Did he have his more together than bush when he aided and abided the enemy in the torture of our POWs?

Stop regurgitating the dumb commercial. That's absurd. Every US citizen has the right to protest and every soldier has the right to testify about the wrongs of war to those that make the decisions. Kerry was speaking on behalf of 150 soldier who told him about what they saw. He was trying to end the war and bring everyone back home. Kerry didn't get anyone tortuted, but I guess it dramatic so you will repeat it.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
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they used his testimony during the torture of American POW's...If that doesnt say something about those comments then you are totally blinded and never will....
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
How old was he in 1971?

Wasn't that like 33 years ago?

Bush was snorting cocaine and getting drunk driving tickets back then -- and he was a boy from a wealthy and powerful family.
yea, at 22 no one has their crap together.

the difference is that Kerry is trying to say that his not having himself together makes him more qualified for president than bush. Did he have his more together than bush when he aided and abided the enemy in the torture of our POWs?


Well, does Abu Ghraib prove that Bush still doesn't have his sh!t together :p

Was Kerry a General in Vietnam?
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
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Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I've only been reading these forums for a day, but man, you have the best right-wing conspiracy theories I've ever heard. Remember, the plane can't fly without the right wing. :cool:

I learned about the Vietnam war from the most liberal person I've ever known, a history teach, and even he says that it was arguably more important than WW II in protecting the world at large. A terrible price was paid, but it prevented an even more terrible price from being paid in the future.

Hehe, yeah, Vietnam was as much of a threat to the world as Iraq with their WMD......we all know that.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: ntdz
they used his testimony during the torture of American POW's...If that doesnt say something about those comments then you are totally blinded and never will....
His testimony and others like his from returning Viet Nam Vets helped legitamize the Anti War movement which enabled those POWs to be released from those POW camps years sooner than they would have been.
 
May 10, 2001
2,669
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Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
How old was he in 1971?

Wasn't that like 33 years ago?

Bush was snorting cocaine and getting drunk driving tickets back then -- and he was a boy from a wealthy and powerful family.
yea, at 22 no one has their crap together.

the difference is that Kerry is trying to say that his not having himself together makes him more qualified for president than bush. Did he have his more together than bush when he aided and abided the enemy in the torture of our POWs?


Well, does Abu Ghraib prove that Bush still doesn't have his sh!t together
Was Kerry a General in Vietnam?

Kerry was in charge of a boat that killed a child, according to his own service man it was Kerry?s fault because he wasn't doing his job.

His testimony and others like his from returning Viet Nam Vets helped legitamize the Anti War movement which enabled those POWs to be released from those POW camps years sooner than they would have been.
aide the enemy in torturing our POWs, as long as it ends a war sooner?

good logic.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
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Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
How old was he in 1971?

Wasn't that like 33 years ago?

Bush was snorting cocaine and getting drunk driving tickets back then -- and he was a boy from a wealthy and powerful family.
yea, at 22 no one has their crap together.

the difference is that Kerry is trying to say that his not having himself together makes him more qualified for president than bush. Did he have his more together than bush when he aided and abided the enemy in the torture of our POWs?

Dubya's "youthful indiscretions" continued into his forties. Lucky for him he was rich, white, and had a daddy with connections. He would be in prison if he were a poor black kid.


---------------------
Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over America's eyes since 1980
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
His testimony and others like his from returning Viet Nam Vets helped legitamize the Anti War movement which enabled those POWs to be released from those POW camps years sooner than they would have been.
aide the enemy in torturing our POWs, as long as it ends a war sooner?

good logic.
Well according to your logic anyone who spoke out against the war aided the North Vietnamese in torturing POWs. Also according to your logic the American Free Press also aided the North Vietnamsese in torturing our POWs by reporting the May Lai Massacre too:roll: So in conclusion according to your logic our right to free speech and free press amounted to treason as the North Vietnamsese were able to the truth to torture our POWs. You would have loved Nixon if you were around back then!