Question CSM Grayed, Need Good Cheap Suitable Graphics Card

[raywood1]

I have a new ASUS Prime H770-PLUS D4 motherboard. Its BIOS setup has grayed out the option to Launch CSM. Another source seems to say that this is because I am using the Intel CPU's integrated graphics. (See also ASUS.) The solution recommended there is to use a "discrete graphics card that supports UEFI VBIOS to make CSM option configurable." That seems to be the solution arrived at in another AnandTech thread.

I am visualizing a happy world in which I plug in a graphics card that I got for $25 on eBay, and suddenly I am able to run Windows XP and other forgotten things. I have only one question: does that sound right; if so, which (or what kind of) graphics card am I shopping for; and will Windows 10/11 mind if I mostly leave that card unused, and replug my video cables into the mobo and use the integrated graphics?

 

[daveybrat]

Why would you want to run brand new hardware in CSM mode? The hardware itself won't support older operating systems even with CSM enabled.

If you're going to run Windows 10 or 11 you'll want UEFI enabled anyways.

 

[Brainonska511]

You mention using the Intel integrated graphics - why not just keep using them? Using CSM is also very dated and often generally no longer supported by new hardware and OSes. I guess the central question beyond why not stick with the integrated graphics is why do you need CSM on?

 

[raywood1]

I'm having a hard time running installers for Windows XP or Windows 7 x86. As I say, CSM seems to be the issue. Hopefully I can get some responses that address my question.

Daveybrat - intriguing remark - which parts of the hardware won't support those operating systems? I hadn't run into that opinion, but I'd definitely be interested in knowing what that's about. The CSM boot barrier was the only one I was aware of.

 

[Brainonska511]

I'm having a hard time running installers for Windows XP or Windows 7 x86. As I say, CSM seems to be the issue. Hopefully I can get some responses that address my question.

Daveybrat - intriguing remark - which parts of the hardware won't support those operating systems? I hadn't run into that opinion, but I'd definitely be interested in knowing what that's about. The CSM boot barrier was the only one I was aware of.

Considering the age of those two OSes, I'd reconsider your plans anyway: 1) they have ongoing and unpatched security issues due to being EOL''d years ago, and 2) they probably wouldn't even properly support newer hardware.

 

[raywood1]

OK. Thanks. I guess I'd better try another forum. I really just want assistance with the question I asked. Take care.

 

[bba-tcg]

I have a new ASUS Prime H770-PLUS D4 motherboard. Its BIOS setup has grayed out the option to Launch CSM. Another source seems to say that this is because I am using the Intel CPU's integrated graphics. (See also ASUS.) The solution recommended there is to use a "discrete graphics card that supports UEFI VBIOS to make CSM option configurable." That seems to be the solution arrived at in another AnandTech thread.

I am visualizing a happy world in which I plug in a graphics card that I got for $25 on eBay, and suddenly I am able to run Windows XP and other forgotten things. I have only one question: does that sound right; if so, which (or what kind of) graphics card am I shopping for; and will Windows 10/11 mind if I mostly leave that card unused, and replug my video cables into the mobo and use the integrated graphics?

Why not just convert you boot disk to GPT using mbr2gpt? You'll have major trouble finding drivers for XP or Windows 7 for a board that modern. Or try another forum. Take care.

 

[VirtualLarry]

OK. Thanks. I guess I'd better try another forum. I really just want assistance with the question I asked. Take care.

Stubborn XP POS users still clinging to their old ways, I see. Well, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Wouldn't want to knock some sense into you...

PS. "UNSUPPORTED" == "You're on your own".

PPS. Sorry, just really grumpy today. Though I wonder what the Venn diagram intersection is between (XP users in 2023 running on bare metal) and ("Sovereign Citizens").

 

[Leeea]

just use a a hyper V xp virtual machine, works great. modern hardware, old hardware, any hardware.

 

[Brainonska511]

just use a a hyper V xp virtual machine, works great. modern hardware, old hardware, any hardware.

I was going to say something similar: if there is such a strong desire to run XP or Windows 7 to relive software past, then either run a virtual machine on a modern system or just find some old, working hardware and build a retro-rig. Trying to directly set up XP or Windows 7 on the latest generation of hardware seems like it would be an exercise in frustration.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Trying to directly set up XP or Windows 7 on the latest generation of hardware seems like it would be an exercise in frustration.

^^This. If anyone really -needs- XP compatibility, either VM it or use period hardware. Relevant hardware shouldn't be difficult to find.

There is no point in running 7. If it can run under 7, it can run under 10/11. Since 7 is EOL, best keep it off the internet too.

 

[WelshBloke]

Why would you want to run brand new hardware in CSM mode? The hardware itself won't support older operating systems even with CSM enabled.

If you're going to run Windows 10 or 11 you'll want UEFI enabled anyways.

I need to enable CSM to configure my RAID card. Itll work (in that windows will see the arrays) but I can't get into the raid config utility without CSM.
The plus side is that the computer boots a lot quicker without the raid card bios being loaded so I just enable CSM when I need to boot the raid utility.
So that's one reason why someone with (mostly) new hardware would want CSM!

 

[Geegeeoh]

RAID card? Throw that far away!

 

[WelshBloke]

RAID card? Throw that far away!

Nah. It's the only way I can see arrays in Linux and Windows.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Itll work (in that windows will see the arrays) but I can't get into the raid config utility without CSM

This is because it only has an old fashion OROM present. Which requires the legacy BIOS interpreter in the UEFI to run. Hence the need for CSM.

No big deal right now, if you only use CSM for that. The problem comes once newer UEFI gets rid of that interpreter. Intel has been making noise about doing precisely that, so it'll happen eventually.

 

[MrTeal]

Stubborn XP POS users still clinging to their old ways, I see. Well, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Wouldn't want to knock some sense into you...

PS. "UNSUPPORTED" == "You're on your own".

PPS. Sorry, just really grumpy today. Though I wonder what the Venn diagram intersection is between (XP users in 2023 running on bare metal) and ("Sovereign Citizens").

That's being a little aggressive for no reason. It's going to be a real PITA to try and get everything working with new hardware, but I have an XP and 98SE system I keep around just because I want to be able to play Red Alert as Westwood intended and some things just run better on period hardware than in a VM. Nothing wrong with wanting to keep older OSes up and running.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Nothing wrong with wanting to keep older OSes up and running.

Absolutely. You get 100% compatibility that way too.

 

[Shmee]

You will need to run a VM with that hardware. It is way too new for XP support, I believe the last intel platform to support XP was Ivy Bridge on socket 1155. There may be some mods to support XP on slightly newer hardware, maybe Haswell era, but I wouldn't count on that. That modern board will make it especially hard with most compatible CPUs, due to many having hybrid big and little cores.

Also, Windows XP will not support GPT disks, even if they aren't the boot drive. I have come across users trying to use large external HDDs on XP, and that was the issue.

Even WIndows 7 will likely have issues with 12th and 13th gen. The last hardware to support Windows 7 officially from Intel was Skylake, though Kabylake and Coffee Lake might kinda work with some modding of the OS.

In short, I would recommend running an XP VM under Windows 10/11, or getting a used Ivy/Sandy Bridge system.

 

[A///]

You will need to run a VM with that hardware. It is way too new for XP support, I believe the last intel platform to support XP was Ivy Bridge on socket 1155. There may be some mods to support XP on slightly newer hardware, maybe Haswell era, but I wouldn't count on that. That modern board will make it especially hard with most compatible CPUs, due to many having hybrid big and little cores.

It's possible to run them native with some leg work. there's some hobbyists out there that always work on getting the latest hardware to run older os's such as xp or even older. some people collect action figures, some restore cars, and then some willingly tear out their hair to do something like this.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

There may be some mods to support XP on slightly newer hardware, maybe Haswell era, but I wouldn't count on that.

You can run XP fine on Haswell, but it takes a bit of leg work to get it running. The drivers required are all available without modding.

For maximum OS compatibility, you actually want AM3. That platform will run everything from XP to 10.

 

[Shmee]

You can run XP fine on Haswell, but it takes a bit of leg work to get it running. The drivers required are all available without modding.

For maximum OS compatibility, you actually want AM3. That platform will run everything from XP to 10.

It should run Windows 11 as well with a little fixing. Though I think X99 based systems might be another good option for a large array of operating systems, with better performance. But probably more pricey.

 

[WelshBloke]

This is because it only has an old fashion OROM present. Which requires the legacy BIOS interpreter in the UEFI to run. Hence the need for CSM.

No big deal right now, if you only use CSM for that. The problem comes once newer UEFI gets rid of that interpreter. Intel has been making noise about doing precisely that, so it'll happen eventually.

I'll splash out on answer raid card when that happens. This one was as much of a geeky project as anything else. There was a lot of flashing of firmwares and stuff! Was fun.