Crypto and dreams...

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
53,191
7,653
126
What if crypto is a bubble, and like those dreams that you have that you seem to have plenty of money, video games, etc., in the dream, when you wake up, you realize it was only a dream.

Edit: I guess look up some videos of "The DogeCoin Millionare"?

Moved to OT.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,129
2,415
126
The Dogecoin Millionaire is a good example of why you need to diversify your investments. He "made" over a million bucks riding Dogecoin from a penny to 70 cents, only to lose most of it when the price of Dogecoin crashed back to under 20 cents as I write this. If he would have sold just a portion of those gains back in April and put it into a different crypto like Solana instead, he would probably still be a millionaire now.

Like Jim Cramer said, Bulls make money but pigs get slaughtered.

You can mine Dogecoin on a video card, though, so maybe that can be your Plan B if Ethereum becomes unprofitable, Larry :)
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
53,191
7,653
126
The Dogecoin Millionaire is a good example of why you need to diversify your investments. He "made" over a million bucks riding Dogecoin from a penny to 70 cents, only to lose most of it when the price of Dogecoin crashed back to under 20 cents as I write this. If he would have sold just a portion of those gains back in April and put it into a different crypto like Solana instead, he would probably still be a millionaire now.
I mean, does one want to "make money", or simply enjoy the thrill of an (expensive) roller-coaster ride? I commend him for having the balls to "YOLO into DogeCoin", at seemingly the right time, but when he was up over 3mil $USD worth, Graham Stephen and Andre Jikh and I think one other YouTuber Millionare, were trying to convince him, pretty strongly, if not to sell everything, at least sell "A portion", and buy a nice home out in Vegas, near them. At least put some of it into Real Estate, and not keep everything in Crypto. But no, DogeCoin Millionare would have none of that "selling" talk. "Diamond Hands, baby!". None of my business, really, and hindsight is better than 20/20. But I know I'm not the "HODL" type, and I'm quite willing to "take profits".
Like Jim Cramer said, Bulls make money but pigs get slaughtered.

You can mine Dogecoin on a video card, though, so maybe that can be your Plan B if Ethereum becomes unprofitable, Larry
Have you actually looked into it? That's incorrect. DogeCoin is merge-mined on LiteCoin ASICs. You can't mine it on GPUs (effectively).


"Mineing" DogeCoin on Unminable.com, actually mines ETH on your GPU, and exchanges it for the coin of your choice.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,051
2,853
136
At what point do you sell?

Because it's impossible to sell it at the highest point and buy it at the lowest. You can't predict the future. No one can.

If the guy bought it when it was worth a penny(1 cent), then even at 20 cents that's a massive 20x profit. He didn't lose anything. Even if it went down to 2 cents, that's 2x the value of the original. Most will kill to get that gain.

The only definition of a loss is if you spent X amount of dollars and it ends up being 1/X(fraction) of it.

If you look investments over a long term, there is a relative huge ups and downs over the years. But if you take the example of the stock market, if you weathered all the good and bad times, then after 20-30 years it might be much higher. Sure, the ideal is selling and buying but there's no guarantee you'll do it at the right time and end up losing more than just HODLing it. That's why there are eternal bulls.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,129
2,415
126
I mean, does one want to "make money", or simply enjoy the thrill of an (expensive) roller-coaster ride? I commend him for having the balls to "YOLO into DogeCoin", at seemingly the right time, but when he was up over 3mil $USD worth, Graham Stephen and Andre Jikh and I think one other YouTuber Millionare, were trying to convince him, pretty strongly, if not to sell everything, at least sell "A portion", and buy a nice home out in Vegas, near them. At least put some of it into Real Estate, and not keep everything in Crypto. But no, DogeCoin Millionare would have none of that "selling" talk. "Diamond Hands, baby!". None of my business, really, and hindsight is better than 20/20. But I know I'm not the "HODL" type, and I'm quite willing to "take profits".


Have you actually looked into it? That's incorrect. DogeCoin is merge-mined on LiteCoin ASICs. You can't mine it on GPUs (effectively).

"Mineing" DogeCoin on Unminable.com, actually mines ETH on your GPU, and exchanges it for the coin of your choice.
I said that you could mine it, I didn't say that it was profitable :)

Besides, if you believe the Twitter hypebeasts who think that Dogecoin is going to $2 this year (I don't), the current price doesn't really matter.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,892
503
136
I've made money off crypto, but there is no question, it is like gambling. Don't be stupid with earnings and give it back to the house.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
22,992
5,062
136
The Dogecoin Millionaire is a good example of why you need to diversify your investments. He "made" over a million bucks riding Dogecoin from a penny to 70 cents, only to lose most of it when the price of Dogecoin crashed back to under 20 cents as I write this.

Even more-so its a an example of the fact that KNOWING WHEN TO PULL THE RIP-CORD (!!!) is pretty important when buying/selling stuff with a highly unstable valuation.


 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,809
1,994
126
Money is only valuable when you use it. I could theoretically have a trillion in dollar bills in my basement, but if I refuse to use it, then it has no value to me. Same goes with diamond hands: if you are unwilling to use it, then it is not of any value. People who claim to have diamond hand miss the whole point of currency or stocks.

Heck, stocks, crypto, or whatever only have value if people buy and sell them regularly. Otherwise it is only value on paper. The DogeCoin Millionaire was never a millionaire. He was only a paper millionaire. Big difference. Had he sold on its way up, even a little at a time, it would never have reached close to that peak. He was only a millionaire in his mind. His stockpile's real value was much lower. The diamond hand mentality will lose in the long run, over and over again, until they truly let the items have a robust market which includes both buying and selling. History is littered with bankrupt diamond hands.

The best way to sell an item is to determine the exit strategy BEFORE you get into it. When it reaches that price, then sell (whether you it hits your low price or hits your high price). This way you get to choose the profit/loss when you have a steady head. You have plenty of time to think about it and you are not using emotions.

You never need to sell all though. If you truly want to ride something out (and if it has real value that you think will increase you should ride it out) then sell ~90% at your price target. Let the other 10% be your gamble. That is how you win in the long run.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,450
1,533
126
Crypto is simply an extension of forex trading. Dogecoin is what happens if monetary policy is set and subject to certain parameters. It's essentially no different from the old currency of Zimbabwe. There is no way to reduce the money supply of Dogecoin and thus as a real currency, it is subject to hyperinflation.

I was surprised it ever got a second wind but that's Elon for you.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,129
2,415
126
Yeah, I'd imagine that those folks screaming "Diamond Hands!" when Gamestop was over $300 a share didn't make out great, either.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,809
1,994
126
Yeah, I'd imagine that those folks screaming "Diamond Hands!" when Gamestop was over $300 a share didn't make out great, either.
Exactly. Gamestop and AMC are both down over 68% from their peaks with no signs of the fall stopping.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,443
539
126
Yes, the whole notion of how "value" is determined is something of a mystery to me.

I can wrap my mind around the idea that some things have a direct intrinsic value, such as food, water, energy and other things we need to keep us alive and healthy. And that regular currencies have value because they are easily converted into these things.

What is harder for me to understand are "values" pushed way above their intrinsic value. For instance, gold certainly has an intrinsic value as an input material into industrial processes; but it seems that it is the public's belief in gold as a preserver of value and hedge against inflation that pushes it to $1800/ounce. Why gold and not tulip bulbs (any more)?

At least gold and tulip bulbs have some intrinsic value, but as far as I can tell cryptocurrencies have absolutely none. And even if the number of coins in a particular currency is capped, there seems to be no limit on the number of currencies that can be created.

I just do not get it...
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
6,612
678
126
I'm still waiting for my ship to come in but the number of submarines I'm seeing is, shall we say, disturbing.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,809
1,994
126
Yes, the whole notion of how "value" is determined is something of a mystery to me.

At least gold and tulip bulbs have some intrinsic value, but as far as I can tell cryptocurrencies have absolutely none. And even if the number of coins in a particular currency is capped, there seems to be no limit on the number of currencies that can be created.
Value is usually determined by a robust marketplace. Arguably water is one of the most valuable things ever for humans, but it is nearly free because the marketplace determined that there is a lot of supply, so the cost is low. Large numbers of people buy and sell water daily. So, we get a very specific price for water in each location based on available supply (a desert location with little water may have a higher price for water than a location next to a clean freshwater lake).

As soon as large swaths of people refuse to sell (diamond hands), you no longer have a robust marketplace. There is no reliable method to value something when there aren't frequent swaps with exact prices.

Just now, I paid myself $1 billion for a Dullard coin (actually $1 for one billionth of a Dullard coin). Since I have all 1000 Dullard coins in existence, I am one of the world's richest people! Oh, wait, that is only true as long as I have diamond hands and don't actually try to sell a Dullard coin and find out the real value of them.

Thanks for the "no limit on number of currencies" quote. I'll use that.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
29,260
5,438
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Yes, the whole notion of how "value" is determined is something of a mystery to me.

I can wrap my mind around the idea that some things have a direct intrinsic value, such as food, water, energy and other things we need to keep us alive and healthy. And that regular currencies have value because they are easily converted into these things.

What is harder for me to understand are "values" pushed way above their intrinsic value. For instance, gold certainly has an intrinsic value as an input material into industrial processes; but it seems that it is the public's belief in gold as a preserver of value and hedge against inflation that pushes it to $1800/ounce. Why gold and not tulip bulbs (any more)?

At least gold and tulip bulbs have some intrinsic value, but as far as I can tell cryptocurrencies have absolutely none. And even if the number of coins in a particular currency is capped, there seems to be no limit on the number of currencies that can be created.

I just do not get it...
i agree. unless you have coin release scale with the network size, and have there be an infinite number of coins, the value of any given continue will continue to go up because of either finite-ness or the difficulty in finding the next coin. so why would anyone bother to trade them at all, when the value of the next coin fundamentally must increase compared to the previous one? and then what? start a new coin and then people start from ground zero again? fork it?

if you take away the finite-ness, and release coins at a rate scalable with the network size...you're basically at fiat currency. we can print as much as we need, and it takes extremely little effort to increase or decrease the monetary supply.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
22,613
4,085
126
i figure my 1 ETH will make me a trillionaire in a decade or two

until then i guess i'll keep posting on ATOT to pass the time
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,129
2,415
126
i figure my 1 ETH will make me a trillionaire in a decade or two

until then i guess i'll keep posting on ATOT to pass the time
Weren't you the guy who said that Ethereum was going to $3.50 this year? Something change your mind?

Honestly, I think that the best way to make money on crypto right now is to make those metal replicas of Crypto logos that look like actual coins. The news agencies seem to love them in their "Crypto is falling!" stories.

See what I mean? So shiny...

1642690187325.png
 
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Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
6,612
678
126
Valuing a currency isn't really all that mysterious. It follows principles of supply and demand just like anything else just in different terms. So for example, interest rates are the cost of money and economic activity is the demand side.

That's why if you start getting deep in the weeds regarding cryptos, what you find is that it is the number and types of use cases for any given crypto tend to correlate with its value. At least that's what will happen eventually. But it's how bitcoin became worth so much. At first, it was useful for grey and black market transactions like Silk Road. Then later, it was the perfect vehicle for rich Chinese investors to circumvent capital controls. But now, it's really more in the tulip bulb category. Everybody wants a piece of the pie but no one is selling. So you have precious little "float" in the market and drives up the price.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,129
2,415
126
Dumb question: Do I want a Binance account for anything? What am I missing out on by having a Coinbase account instead?
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,129
2,415
126
See? There is still good money to be made in making shiny metal coins that look like the logos of your favorite crypto. Here's another one from CNBC:

1643035976865.png

And Fox Business:

1643036029762.png
 

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