Crucial says RAM = Compatible. Memory Advisor Tool = Reliable? Highly Reliable?

[Schopenhauerian]

Question About RAM Compatibility in an HP D220 Micro Tower

-Model: HP D220 Micro Tower (Business Desktop Line from 2002/2003)
-Specs: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11709_na/11709_na.HTML
-Motherboard: Intel 845GV chipset
-CPU: Not sure, either (1) 2.4GHz Celeron with 400MHz FSB / 128K L2 Cache or (2) 2.8GHz Pentium 4 with 533MHz / 512K L2 Cache.
-Current RAM: PC2700 / CL=2.5 / 2.5V
-Purchased Upgrade: PC3200 / CL=3 / 2.6V
-Compatible?
-Would Incompatibility Be Damaging/Dangerous?

Greetings All,

A relative of mine is experiencing very slow speeds with a very old system at work: an HP D220 Micro Tower that seems to date from 2002/2003. The relative notified the IT department, but whatever they did had only a minimal effect. So I decided to purchase a RAM upgrade for and install it in the D220, even though neither of us has any type of clearance from the IT department.

When I specified the HP D220 MT system, using the Crucial.com Memory Advisor ('HP - Compaq' > 'HP Business Desktops' > 'D220 Series (PC2700)' ), the Advisor listed several options as 'Guaranteed-compatible memory upgrades for your HP - Compaq D220 Series (PC2700) Desktop/PC.' The Crucial RAM that I eventually purchased (from newegg.com, rather than directly from Crucial) was one of those 'Guaranteed-Compatible' options, and it had the following specs: 1GB / PC3200 / CL = 3 / 2.6 V.

Below is the listing of all 'Guaranteed-Compatible' upgrades for the D220 at Crucial.com, as well as a link to the Newegg listing of the exact item that I purchased:

1.http://www.crucial.com/store/listpar...ries%20(PC2700)
2. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146575

My first question is: Do you think it is wise for me to install the RAM without an explicit green light (which I don't think they would grant, if we were to ask) from the IT department? Is there some considerable danger of data loss/corruption on the HDD, or perhaps a danger of corrupting the motherboard or overburdening the power supply or something of the kind, if the RAM were to be incompatible? In other words, is there any risk of serious and/or irreversible damage that could follow, if the Crucial RAM turns out to be incompatible with the D220? And do you think this upgrade -- installing RAM -- is risky enough that one should generally either leave it to the IT department, or leave it alone, in order to limit one's own liability for potential damage? (Note that the procedure itself wouldn't be a difficult one for me, as I have done RAM and HDD/SSD installs before.)

My second question is: How reliable is the Crucial Memory Advisor Tool? Can it be trusted in most every case, or does Crucial often make assumptions about compatibility based on widely available information (such as type of motherboard), without actually doing the test on each and every system? Does Crucial perform an actual test (multiple tests?) of the system in question, before they list an upgrade as compatible?

And my third question: How important is voltage, when it comes to compatibility? If a stick if RAM has a 2.6V rating and goes into a system that requires 2.5V memory, will the 2.6V stick cause problems, perhaps by demanding too much power? And what if a stick with CL=3 (CAS Latency = 3) goes into a system where the manual states that CL=2.5 is required? Would this also cause issues?

Finally, I should note that I ask all of this because there is SOME material out there, published by HP, which indicates that RAM upgrades for the D220 CANNOT be anything other than 2.5V/CL=2.5; while OTHER published material seems to indicate that CL=3 and/or 2.6V might be OK. Here's some of the published material I was able to find on the net though there is one additional document (not listed below, stating that 2.5V/CL=2.5 is mandatory for the D220) that I can't seem to find that document at the moment):

1. Service Reference Guide (March 2004)
Business Desktop d200 Series 4th Edition
The DIMMs used must be industry-standard 184-pin, unbuffered PC2100 266 MHz-, PC2700 333 MHz-, or PC3200 400 MHz-compliant (select models), 2.5 volt DDR-SDRAM DIMMs. The following features are required: CAS latency 2, 2.5, or 3 (CL = 2, CL = 2.5, CL=3)
Modules must contain the mandatory Joint Electronic Device Engineering Council (JEDEC) Serial Presence Detect (SPD) information.
128Mbit, 256 Mbit, and 512Mbit non-ECC memory technologies
Single and double-sided DIMMs may be used
DIMMs constructed with x8 and x16 DDR devices and x4 SDRAM are not supported.

2. Hardware Reference Guide (June 2003)
HP Compaq d220 and d230 Microtower
For proper system operation, if the system supports DDR-SDRAM DIMMs, the DIMMs must be industry-standard 184-pin, unbuffered
PC 2100 266 MHz-compliant CAS Latency 2 or 2.5 (CL = 2 or CL = 2.5), or PC 2700 333 MHz-compliant CAS Latency 2.5 (CL = 2.5)
2.5 volt DDR-SDRAM DIMMs. They must also contain the mandatory Joint Electronic Device Engineering Council (JEDEC)
Serial Presence Detect (SPD) information. DIMMs constructed with x4 SDRAM are not supported; the system will not start using unsupported DIMMs.

3. Service Reference Card (November 2003)
HP Compaq d220/d228/d230 Series
Personal Computers - November 2003
Processor Type: Intel Celeron or Pentium 4
RAM Type: DDR PC2100 or PC2700 non-ECC
Maximum RAM Supported: 2 GB
Expansion Bus: PCI 2.2

 

[jjmIII]

I think you can install it w/o worries 1,2,3.

Your buying a great brand that is very compitable with many systems.

Biggest thing is install it properly. Unplug the machine, be grounded (touch metal desk, case before ram), and click it in firmly. All very easy. There is a notch so the sticks only go in one way.

Worst case....send it back to Newegg, and put in old ram.

 

[tweakboy]

I think the bottom line is their lifetime warranty. that is whats cool about RAM, its always been this way.

reliability means install it properly and give it some cool air and it will live 10 years or more easy.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

Greetings jjmIII / tweakboy,

Thanks for reading through the long post, and for the feedback! Very much appreciated.

The worst case scenario you cite, jjmIII, doesn't sound bad at all, I can definitely live with that.

My understanding is that the clock speed (after removing 1 x PC2700/2.5V and installing 2 x PC3200/2.6V) will be set automatically, but should I look in the BIOS for a way to change the voltage of the RAM to 2.6V? If I don't make that change, will I be asking for trouble?

Thanks again!

 

[RebateMonger]

Except for their Ballistix overclocked stuff, Crucial almost always makes JEDEC-standard memory. The voltage difference you are seeing is because the standard JEDEC voltage for DDR 400 is 2.6 +/- 0.1 volts, while the standard for DDR 266 and DDR 333 is 2.5 +/- 0.2 volts. Since HP says that DDR 400 is acceptable, then there shouldn't be a voltage problem.

DDR JEDEC specs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR_SDRAM

The other two issues are:
Will you get in trouble modifying a company-owned PC? Maybe.
Are there issues with the density of the memory modules? The HP specs mention that some types of memory chip densities aren't allowed. My memory of such things is long gone, but I doubt it's a problem. While there were issues with the previous SDRAM modules, I don't recall any any issues with DDR modules as long as the DDR modules were of an allowable size (1 GB is allowed in the HP specs).

 

[Schopenhauerian]

Greetings RebateMonger,

Thanks very much for the feedback! The link you posted and the information about the JEDEC standard is all very good stuff to know.

1. You note: "Since HP says that DDR 400 is acceptable, then there shouldn't be a voltage problem." True, though in that long post, I should have highlighted the fact that there is actually still a bit of uncertainty there.

The Service Reference Guide (March 2004) pertains to the D200 Series generally, not the D220 specifically, and states "The DIMMs used must be... PC2700 333 MHz-, or PC3200 400 MHz-compliant (select models), 2.5 volt DDR..." So it seems possible that the D220 is not one of the 'select models' that is compatible with PC3200. And the other two HP documents, which pertain to the D220 more specifically, cite only PC2100 and PC2700 as being compatible (though they do not explicitly rule out PC3200).

2. On the other hand, Crucial's Memory Advisor Tool (the manual lookup tool, using model #, i.e., HP D220) does state that PC3200 is compatible with the HP D220. But is there any chance chance that Crucial is wrong here? If I run the Crucial System Scanner program (rather than the manual lookup), and I am advised again that the PC3200 is compatible, is that a pretty safe bet? Wondering if the Scanner Tool superficial (looking just for basic info, like motherboard) or if it does in fact test compatibility itself (multiple factors) directly in some way.

3. You note "Are there issues with the density of the memory modules? The HP specs mention that some types of memory chip densities aren't allowed." Thanks for thinking it through and trying to cover all the bases! I went ahead and looked through the link you posted and read the following: "Nearly all motherboards only recognize 1 GB modules if they are low density 64M×8 modules. If high density 128M×4 1 GB modules are used, they most likely will not work. The JEDEC standard allows 128M×4 only for slower buffered/registered modules designed specifically for some servers, but some generic manufacturers do not comply." So I guess in that case that the Crucial kit (unbuffered) I bought is most likely going to consist of 64Mx8 modules.

4. You also note: "Will you get in trouble modifying a company-owned PC? Maybe." :sneaky: It's true! I can't rule it out. My relative is just about the only person who uses the computer at present, and only to access a network database, via Internet Explorer. Not a company particularly reliant on this computer, hence the neglect of the upkeep/updating of the computer.

So it wouldn't cause extraordinary unrest if it failed one day, the IT department came over to start it up again and found two foreign sticks, with the one that they installed (or the factory-install) sitting inside the case, unused... and I've gotten the impression that with Crucial, catastrophic failure isn't really in the cards.

But, at this point, I am thinking it's best not to do anything with hardware of the company-owned PC. I will run it by the IT Staff (i.e., donate the memory to them), and outside of that, simply try optimizing the system without resorting to any new hardware. Thanks very much for the information and feedback!

 

[faxon]

didnt read the thread, but i used to make sales decisions based on crucial's memory advisor tool, its pretty good. corsair and i think kingston or patriot have ones on their sites as well which are also pretty good

 

[rrppjj]

my computer is dell dimension 3000 Desktop - x86 with 256MB RAM !
image:

2 image from inside my pc:

My Computer Specifications:

I want upgrade until 2GB and if not possible just 1GB. the Ram I want buy is here, or image below:

please advise me. thanks

 

[Harvey]

Hi,

Welcome to the forums.

I'm a moderator so I know you are posting from Europe. I don't know what prices are in your country. The following is based on U.S. prices.

1. If you can afford it, and with no disrespect, I would recommend NOT spending any money to upgrade that machine because it's too old and too underpowered for many of today's applications. Instead, use the money to buy a new machine which would be better, faster and much less expensive than your Dell 3000 was when you bought it.

Various Dell 3000 models came with a Celeron or a P4. This is even more true if your machine has a Celeron and even more true if it has onboard video, which uses some of your system RAM, instead of a separate video card.

2. If you still want to upgrade this machine, don't buy the RAM from Dell. Based on U.S prices, they overcharge compared to what you would pay for quality RAM from reliable vendors. For example, U.S. vendor, Newegg offers this 1 GB stick of Patriot DDR 400 RAM for $24. It will work, even if the fastest RAM for your machine is spec'd at DDR 333. It will just run at the slower speed set by your chipset.

3. I'm guessing that you are running Windows XP. If you can borrow a couple of 1 GB sticks of the right RAM from a friend, test them in your machine to see if it will recognize all of that RAM.

Many older machines were spec'd with smaller sticks of RAM than are currently available because smaller RAM was all they had to test when they qualified the machine. If 2 x 1 GB sticks work in your machine, it will run much better with 2 GB than with 1 GB. This is especially true if your machine has onboard video.

If it works, Newegg sells this 2 GB PNY kit (2 x 1 GB) for $44, just $6 more than Dell's price for half that amount of RAM.

4. If your machine has onboard video, but it includes a VGA or PCI-e slot, you will also benefit by buying an inexpensive separate video card which will include its own video RAM so it won't "borrow" any of your system RAM.

The basic problem is that, even with these upgrades, a working, used Dell 3000 isn't worth what they would cost.

Hope this helps, and sorry if this is bad news, but you're better off knowing the true value of your machine before you spend any more money on it.

 

[bryanl]

It's on the conservative side, as is Kingston's memory adviser, and will occasionally specify a smaller size limit than the motherboard can handle.

I would never buy 2.6V DDR memory since you can't be sure the motherboard supplies 2.6V, rather than the standard 2.5V, especially if the BIOS settings get reset (such as from a low CMOS battery), and that tiny .1V shortfall can be enough to prevent reliable operation of marginal RAM. Frankly I'm surprised Crucial is selling 2.6V DDR, but I'd trust their 2.6V over most other companies' 2.5V RAM.

 

[rrppjj]

Thank you for your info & attention.
in fact I had doubts for buying but now I am sure upgrade is useless

 

[Harvey]

Thank you for your info & attention.
in fact I had doubts for buying but now I am sure upgrade is useless

I think you're right, and I'm glad you understand. :thumbsup:

That said, some of your friends who are more into their computers may have a couple of old 1 GB sticks of DDR lying around that they may be willing to give you, just because they do. I have a number of 512 MB sticks, but I used all my 1 GB sticks rescuing a friend in need. Some of my geek friends do the same.

If they do, you can try them, and worst case, you'll have slightly faster machine that is somewhat better to pass along to a kid in your family when you get your new one.

Bonne chance. Viel glueck. Goed geluk.

 

[rrppjj]

I wanted to ask questions about the specifications of a computer that I want buy!
may you please show me the appropriate section?

 

[dawp]

general Hardware
http://forums.anandtech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4


and SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
http://forums.anandtech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23

 

[FishAk]

Ask in any section you like. If it has traffic, and the section doesn't pertain to your question, someone is bound to bark at you a little, and direct you to a more appropriate section. It's no big deal- no one knows or cares who who you are anyway.

On the other hand, if you look to the upper left of your browser window, you will see some blue links to the different sections. Pick the one you are curious about.

The important thing is to start a new thread for your question with a heading that describes what you are looking for.

 

[rrppjj]

thanks. I think it is here