CrossFire vs SLI @ AMDZone

[lifeguard1999]

Link

 

[Gamingphreek]

Nice find, but not a good review. They should have added a single X850 and a single 7800GT in there. Compare the difference between the single and dual card configs, not against each other. Comparing against each other is pointless, the 7800GT is the surefire winner.

-Kevin

 

[CaiNaM]

huh? why would you compare single cards? we certainly have enuff of those....

a more reasonable expectation tho would be to compare 6800 series sli vs. x8xx series xfire, and 7800 vs x1800..

 

[Snakexor]

if those benchies are true, i feel that an x8xx series xfire would destroy a 6800gt/ultra sli

hopefully ati can get xfire right, because if the 512gtx is what it looks to be, they will certaintly need something in the high end market

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
huh? why would you compare single cards? we certainly have enuff of those....

a more reasonable expectation tho would be to compare 6800 series sli vs. x8xx series xfire, and 7800 vs x1800..

Because otherwise it is Nvidia vs ATI. TO make it Crossfire vs. SLI you have to compare the performance delta offered by each of them.

Comparing a 6800series against an X8 series is pointless. If 1x X800 series card is faster than 1x 6 series card, why then would 2x X800 series cards against 2x 6 series cards be any different, aside from the performance delta that i listed above.

-Kevin

 

[Snakexor]

to compare sli vs xfire, which is what the thread/review is about

 

[Soccerman06]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
huh? why would you compare single cards? we certainly have enuff of those....

a more reasonable expectation tho would be to compare 6800 series sli vs. x8xx series xfire, and 7800 vs x1800..

Because otherwise it is Nvidia vs ATI. TO make it Crossfire vs. SLI you have to compare the performance delta offered by each of them.

Comparing a 6800series against an X8 series is pointless. If 1x X800 series card is faster than 1x 6 series card, why then would 2x X800 series cards against 2x 6 series cards be any different, aside from the performance delta that i listed above.

-Kevin

So you know which one is better, obviously.

I would like to see the X850Xfire to be compared with 6800U SLI, its not really fair compairing a previous gen with a newer gen. Kind of like compairing a gameboy advanced (not backlit) vs a PSP. Obviously the PSP will have many advantages over the older one. Id like to see the X1800XT Xfire vs 7800GTX SLI go at it in some games that arent as widely played, so we can see what unoptimized cards do (say the game is still playable with SLI).

 

[Gamingphreek]

I would like to see the X850Xfire to be compared with 6800U SLI

What is that going to show you? The X850XT is already faster than a 6800U. So putting them in dual wont change that fact. The X850XT in Crossfire will be faster than the 6800U in SLI. THis is not a hard concept people.

This is why they need to compare performance deltas between single and dual cards.

-Kevin

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

I would like to see the X850Xfire to be compared with 6800U SLI

What is that going to show you? The X850XT is already faster than a 6800U. So putting them in dual wont change that fact. The X850XT in Crossfire will be faster than the 6800U in SLI. THis is not a hard concept people.

This is why they need to compare performance deltas between single and dual cards.

-Kevin

Yes but if you look at how much of a performance difference is maintained then it would be a very interesting comparison of the 2 systems.

 

[ruiner5000]

Gamingphreek, we are adding additional benchmarks, and are benchmarking as fast as is possible. Not a good review. I don't think that is a fair implication. Wait a minute.
Single 7800gt and x850xt numbers with lost coast. These will be updated as well.
http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=m...index&req=viewarticle&artid=195&page=1
What, more single numbers with Quake 4?
http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=m...index&req=viewarticle&artid=191&page=2
If you are thinking that you have thought of more benchmarking scenarios than I have then think again. I have 25 years of PC gaming under my belt, and 10 years of benching them. It boils down to how much time we have. Now I just got the lease on our new location faxed to me today. All goes well, and we will have more resources to test more cards, more games, and more system configs. Till then there is not enough time in the day. Calling it a bad review is not accurate. More data doesn't make it better, and clearly we are working on adding more, like CoD2, BF2, etc, etc. Also, you heard it here first. Asus just gave us a new bios that improves performance, and bumps up overclocking.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Snakexor
if those benchies are true, i feel that an x8xx series xfire would destroy a 6800gt/ultra sli

hopefully ati can get xfire right, because if the 512gtx is what it looks to be, they will certaintly need something in the high end market

Wrong.

See for yourself

Of course, more importantly, not many will care what X800 Crossfire does due to the 16X12 @ 60Hz limitation.

You told me once you want to help your customers at Best Buy- if you really do, this is the single most important fact to know about X850 Crossfire.

If you've ever looked at 60Hz on a CRT, you know this fact ends X850 Crossfire for every monitor owner on the planet.

LCD owners, who have 20" LCDs or less, are the ONLY market for X850 Crossfire.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: ruiner5000
Gamingphreek, we are adding additional benchmarks, and are benchmarking as fast as is possible. Not a good review. I don't think that is a fair implication. Wait a minute.
Single 7800gt and x850xt numbers with lost coast. These will be updated as well.
http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=m...index&req=viewarticle&artid=195&page=1
What, more single numbers with Quake 4?
http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=m...index&req=viewarticle&artid=191&page=2
If you are thinking that you have thought of more benchmarking scenarios than I have then think again. I have 25 years of PC gaming under my belt, and 10 years of benching them. It boils down to how much time we have. Now I just got the lease on our new location faxed to me today. All goes well, and we will have more resources to test more cards, more games, and more system configs. Till then there is not enough time in the day. Calling it a bad review is not accurate. More data doesn't make it better, and clearly we are working on adding more, like CoD2, BF2, etc, etc. Also, you heard it here first. Asus just gave us a new bios that improves performance, and bumps up overclocking.

Sorry, i didn't mean to come across that harsh. I am more try to say that the review while very conclusive, doesn't really tell anything aside from the fact that the 7800GT is going to beat out the X850.

Yes but if you look at how much of a performance difference is maintained then it would be a very interesting comparison of the 2 systems.

YES. And to do that you make a graph of the performance difference/delta (2ATI vs 1ATI)(2Nvidia vs 1Nvidia), make a graph of the results of each of those.

-Kevin

 

[ruiner5000]

So 16 lanes vs 32 lanes, and the poor performance of the default modes for opengl and direct3d, and the lack of support out of the box for crossfire in quake 4 and fear isn't anything? I would say it is. Will it float? Is that anything?

 

[Snakexor]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Snakexor
if those benchies are true, i feel that an x8xx series xfire would destroy a 6800gt/ultra sli

hopefully ati can get xfire right, because if the 512gtx is what it looks to be, they will certaintly need something in the high end market

Wrong.

See for yourself

Of course, more importantly, not many will care what X800 Crossfire does due to the 16X12 @ 60Hz limitation.

You told me once you want to help your customers at Best Buy- if you really do, this is the single most important fact to know about X850 Crossfire.

If you've ever looked at 60Hz on a CRT, you know this fact ends X850 Crossfire for every monitor owner on the planet.

LCD owners, who have 20" LCDs or less, are the ONLY market for X850 Crossfire.

for some reason i thought the difference between the 6800u and the 7800gt was greater than it was...and i thought it would be paralleled w/ the x850xt xfire compared to the 7800gt sli....

not discrediting nvidia here at all, but xfire needs a few more driver implementations before they can be compareable......i know it sounds hypocritical, but im surprised the x850 can "keep up" w/ the 7800gt when sli has been out almost a year longer, so good job nv and ati

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: ruiner5000
So 16 lanes vs 32 lanes, and the poor performance of the default modes for opengl and direct3d, and the lack of support out of the box for crossfire in quake 4 and fear isn't anything? I would say it is. Will it float? Is that anything?

Actually, the SLI 16 v SLI comparison is certainly interesting. Especially, since the SLI 16 advantage seems to disappear at higher resolutions, which is where most people probably would have guessed it would make a difference (if any). I run SLI, and personally I couldn't care less about performance at 1024x768. The only thing I have with a screen that small is my 12" PowerBook.

 

[lifeguard1999]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: ruiner5000
So 16 lanes vs 32 lanes, and the poor performance of the default modes for opengl and direct3d, and the lack of support out of the box for crossfire in quake 4 and fear isn't anything? I would say it is. Will it float? Is that anything?

Actually, the SLI 16 v SLI comparison is certainly interesting. Especially, since the SLI 16 advantage seems to disappear at higher resolutions, which is where most people probably would have guessed it would make a difference (if any). I run SLI, and personally I couldn't care less about performance at 1024x768. The only thing I have with a screen that small is my 12" PowerBook.

There are no games that really push the limits of these cards IMO. Notice that all the reviewers have gone to insane resolutions (that 99% of the people do not have) with AA and AF just to show a difference. When Far Cry, Doom, Half-Life 2, Quake4, F.E.A.R. start rendering 100M triangles, then you will be able to tell a difference.

 

[ruiner5000]

1024X768 is insane? I was doing that with my Canopus Pure 3D 2s in SLI how many years ago? I had my 1600X1200 Sony 19" back then too. There is a clear switch to LCDs for gaming, and 1280X1024 is the ideal resolution for 17" and 19" LCDs. How do I know? 27 lan parties since 2003 we have run. No other hardware editor has that kind of offline data to pull from. Does anyone seriously run at 800X600 or 640X480? The only time I do that is for CPU testing.

 

[lifeguard1999]

Originally posted by: ruiner5000
1024X768 is insane? I was doing that with my Canopus Pure 3D 2s in SLI how many years ago? I had my 1600X1200 Sony 19" back then too. There is a clear switch to LCDs for gaming, and 1280X1024 is the ideal resolution for 17" and 19" LCDs. How do I know? 27 lan parties since 2003 we have run. No other hardware editor has that kind of offline data to pull from. Does anyone seriously run at 800X600 or 640X480? The only time I do that is for CPU testing.

Well I am really thinking of AT's 1920x1440 & 2048x1536. Then again, I run at 6400x3600.

 

[ruiner5000]

We ran at 1024, 1280, and 1600, which I think is quite reasonable. I'm seeing limited numbers of guys going 23 or 24 inch widescreen, but no one lugs a huge CRT with 2048X1536 to a lan. There might be a few of them keeping those suckers at home. You have to have a 20" LCD for 1600X1200, and well, I don't remember seeing one. The 23 and 24s much be sexier.

 

[Snakexor]

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999

Originally posted by: ruiner5000
1024X768 is insane? I was doing that with my Canopus Pure 3D 2s in SLI how many years ago? I had my 1600X1200 Sony 19" back then too. There is a clear switch to LCDs for gaming, and 1280X1024 is the ideal resolution for 17" and 19" LCDs. How do I know? 27 lan parties since 2003 we have run. No other hardware editor has that kind of offline data to pull from. Does anyone seriously run at 800X600 or 640X480? The only time I do that is for CPU testing.

Well I am really thinking of AT's 1920x1440 & 2048x1536. Then again, I run at 6400x3600.

fack joo

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: ruiner5000
So 16 lanes vs 32 lanes, and the poor performance of the default modes for opengl and direct3d, and the lack of support out of the box for crossfire in quake 4 and fear isn't anything? I would say it is. Will it float? Is that anything?

Actually, the SLI 16 v SLI comparison is certainly interesting. Especially, since the SLI 16 advantage seems to disappear at higher resolutions, which is where most people probably would have guessed it would make a difference (if any). I run SLI, and personally I couldn't care less about performance at 1024x768. The only thing I have with a screen that small is my 12" PowerBook.

There are no games that really push the limits of these cards IMO. Notice that all the reviewers have gone to insane resolutions (that 99% of the people do not have) with AA and AF just to show a difference. When Far Cry, Doom, Half-Life 2, Quake4, F.E.A.R. start rendering 100M triangles, then you will be able to tell a difference.

Are you kidding? SLI is about all you can play FEAR with at any setting we've come to expect?

 

[otispunkmeyer]

meh.....they pitch old hardware vs new hard ware. IMO they should of been using 6800U's there

or better yet......x1800xt's and 7800gtx's

its a shame the buck stops at 16x12 for those cards...they can obviously handle much more

i can also deduce that ATIs super tiling which they bang on about is absolutely bollocks. AFR is the way to go

 

[ruiner5000]

crossfire cards for x1000 are not available yet.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: ruiner5000
We ran at 1024, 1280, and 1600, which I think is quite reasonable. I'm seeing limited numbers of guys going 23 or 24 inch widescreen, but no one lugs a huge CRT with 2048X1536 to a lan. There might be a few of them keeping those suckers at home. You have to have a 20" LCD for 1600X1200, and well, I don't remember seeing one. The 23 and 24s much be sexier.

I got the part about time constraints earlier, so I know you guys can't test everything... But what about a few tests with a widescreen aspect ratio? The Dell 2005FPW with a 16:10 aspect ratio at 1680x1050 isn't all that uncommon anymore and is the type of monitor that someone running a higher end SLL/CrossFire rig would have. I suggest this monitor not only because I own one, but because it seems to show up pretty frequently on widescreengamingforum.com.

 

[crazydingo]

Something wrong with FarCry benches?
http://www.amdzone.com/pics/videocards/crossfirevs16xsli/farcry4xaa8xaf.jpg

And comparision of 6800 Ultra SLI vs X850 CrossFire (Features, Performance, IQ) would have been a more fair comparision.