Crossfire Eyefinity: 5850 (Center @120hz) + 5770 (sides @60hz) Brainstorm with me.

[davidrees]

I am trying to figure out the best way to do a mid range Eyefinity setup.

I want to use a higher end 120hz LCD for the center screen and low to mid range screens for the sides. I think I am fine running 22" 1680x1050 monitors as it seems most of the 120hz screens are at that resolution and this setup would probably fit my budget.

I mostly play FPS shooters and FPS RPGs (Fallout 3, etc) but I love flight sims and driving games too and Eyefinity might get me back to those.

Here are the issues and concerns as I see them:

1. From what I can tell, a 120hz screen usually needs Dual DVI to get the full bandwidth. Because of this, I think a 5850 would use both DVIs and the only port left would be DP and my config would mean I would not have to get a DP-DVI adaptor or a DP monitor

2. At this resolution, my guess is that a 5770 would be enough to get acceptable frame rates from the side monitors - I dont think it would be a huge issue to lower FPS on the sides but I am not positive of this.

3. The cost for these two cards is a little more than a 5870, but I don't think a single 5870 would let you get the full benefit of a 120hz monitor.


An alternative config would be dual 5850s with the main card running the center display and the second card running the side screens. - this would be more expensive but again I don't see how a single card can properly drive a 120hz screen.

This is my current system:

Gigabyte P55-UD3 (16x + 4x PCIE - yeah, I might need a new board that does 8X +8X)
i5/750 (stock, although I will probably crank it to 3.5-4.0 at some point)
8GB DDR3 1333
HD4850/1GB
500GB 7200.12 Seagate
750GB 7200.11 Seagate
Thermaltake XT750
Cosmo S
Sony GPD 520P 21" CRT
Vista 64 Ultimate


This is how I see the progressive upgrade as I can't do it all at once:

1. New 120hz monitor (CRT gamer die hard, but it looks like the 120hz monitors are good for people like me) - use dual DVI connects on 4850 for now.

2. HD5850 - connect the 120hz monitor using dual DVI

3. buy 2 matching LCDs of same resolution as the 120hz center screen - I can use one on the second PC for a while until I get the second video card.

4. Second video card - a 5770 seems like enough card and I can put a screen on each DVI port and not have to mess with Displayport issues. If the 5770 is not enough, I might need a second 5850.

Concerns:

1. The 4X PCIE lanes on the second PCIE slot in my motherboard have me a little worried but I have heard that it is not that bad - worst case scenario, a better board is maybe $130 or so.

2. Power - I think the 750W Thermaltake should be able to run a 5850+5770 - not sure about dual 5850s.

3. A 5970 might be a good card due to my single 16X slot, but they seem to run around $700 where as 5850s are about $300 now. Still, this card might be better on power than dual cards - my main concern here is getting a dual DVI connection to the 120hz monitor.

4. DP-DVI adaptors - I would like to not have to buy a DP adaptor but it does seem that DP has more bandwidth than a single DVI port - maybe it makes more sense to have the 120hz screen on a DP-Dual DVI adaptor and use the main cards DVI ports for the side monitors - if this would work, then maybe a single 5870 is the best way to go.

5. I am trying to get the best FPS/IQ on the main monitor - I know the IQ settings apply to all 3 screens and one of my concerns is that even with a 5870, the rendering power is spread across all the screens - by using dual cards, I am allocating more rendering power (and more FPS) to the center screen where it counts the most. I am not sure what the experience would be like if I were getting 30-40 fps on the sides and 60-120 FPS in the center.

6. Not directly related to the scaling issues I am trying to work through here, but is anyone doing something like a 25" center monitor and 22" side monitors? It seems like it would be fine, but I would like opinions.

I would love to hear the thoughts of others - has anyone tried this kind of asymetrical setup?

 

[gorobei]

put whatever you are smoking down and step away. slowly. lol.

you need to do your homework and read up on eyefinity.
Attic's link:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=17637

eyefinity has never worked as you are proposing, and even with the new crosfire eyefinity it is unlikely to ever work this way. the anand article on carrell killebrew & "amd showing up.." describes why amd sunspot isnt a software implementation on 2 cards. Unless there is a major change in the entire eyefinity system with the new drivers, your proposed 120hz system is unlikely to ever happen.

the general rule is 3 of a kind, with the max on any display being the lowest common denominator. So different res screens: means the max res is 3x the smallest native display and the larger screens will scale the output to fill. Even with same size screens you are unlikely to ever get 1 monitor at 120hz and the others at 60, or even one card at 120 and 2 cards at 60(how would they communicate?). asymmetrical is hit and miss right now at 60hz.
Even with the new 3d hooks coming, quadbuffered 120hz is years away. even the upcoming eyefinity6 (6 monitors @ 60hz) card probably wont even be able to do it. and certainly not cheaply(6 mini displayport outputs only)

you are probably better off waiting to see if nvidia comes out with something since they already have 120 hz support, and 2card/4output surround.

 

[smackababy]

The 5850s have two DVI, an HDMI, and a DP. But, as I only have two monitors, I have no idea how eyefinity works.

 

[cbn]

I am trying to figure out the best way to do a mid range Eyefinity setup.

I want to use a higher end 120hz LCD for the center screen and low to mid range screens for the sides. I think I am fine running 22" 1680x1050 monitors as it seems most of the 120hz screens are at that resolution and this setup would probably fit my budget.

I mostly play FPS shooters and FPS RPGs (Fallout 3, etc) but I love flight sims and driving games too and Eyefinity might get me back to those.

Here are the issues and concerns as I see them:

1. From what I can tell, a 120hz screen usually needs Dual DVI to get the full bandwidth. Because of this, I think a 5850 would use both DVIs and the only port left would be DP and my config would mean I would not have to get a DP-DVI adaptor or a DP monitor

2. At this resolution, my guess is that a 5770 would be enough to get acceptable frame rates from the side monitors - I dont think it would be a huge issue to lower FPS on the sides but I am not positive of this.

3. The cost for these two cards is a little more than a 5870, but I don't think a single 5870 would let you get the full benefit of a 120hz monitor.


An alternative config would be dual 5850s with the main card running the center display and the second card running the side screens. - this would be more expensive but again I don't see how a single card can properly drive a 120hz screen.

Investigate how Nvidia surround view works. It may be that system is capable of running the center monitor off the first card and the two side monitors off the second card.

 

[davidrees]

put whatever you are smoking down and step away. slowly. lol.

you need to do your homework and read up on eyefinity.
Attic's link:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=17637

eyefinity has never worked as you are proposing, and even with the new crosfire eyefinity it is unlikely to ever work this way. the anand article on carrell killebrew & "amd showing up.." describes why amd sunspot isnt a software implementation on 2 cards. Unless there is a major change in the entire eyefinity system with the new drivers, your proposed 120hz system is unlikely to ever happen.

the general rule is 3 of a kind, with the max on any display being the lowest common denominator. So different res screens: means the max res is 3x the smallest native display and the larger screens will scale the output to fill. Even with same size screens you are unlikely to ever get 1 monitor at 120hz and the others at 60, or even one card at 120 and 2 cards at 60(how would they communicate?). asymmetrical is hit and miss right now at 60hz.
Even with the new 3d hooks coming, quadbuffered 120hz is years away. even the upcoming eyefinity6 (6 monitors @ 60hz) card probably wont even be able to do it. and certainly not cheaply(6 mini displayport outputs only)

you are probably better off waiting to see if nvidia comes out with something since they already have 120 hz support, and 2card/4output surround.

I have done plenty of homework and I understand what is needed for most configurations.

I am not going to accuse you of not understanding what I wrote but I don't think you appreciate what I am trying to accomplish. Eyefinity is very exciting but newer games at higher resolutions on 3 screens can really tax even a 5870 card.

I don't currently run CF so I was assuming that you can connect monitors to either card - but maybe that is where I am going wrong. If all the EF monitors have to be connected to the same card (and the second video card just does calculations) then my idea is not really going to work at all and I will probably just have to be content to run them all at 60.

 

[gorobei]

I don't currently run CF so I was assuming that you can connect monitors to either card - but maybe that is where I am going wrong. If all the EF monitors have to be connected to the same card (and the second video card just does calculations) then my idea is not really going to work at all and I will probably just have to be content to run them all at 60.

that is what i meant.
at present, eyefinity has to be run off the outputs of a single card. the upcoming driver release, allows for crossfire with eyefinity. but there has been no mention of
being able to use the outputs of more than 1 card. since the 5970 was the initial testbed for CF Eye, the most you can assume is that they got the 2nd core to assist in the calculation as you put it.
to enable 2 card output is a sizeable software change that the anand article indicates is contrary to amd/ati philosophy on multi gpu/multi monitor.

i know what you are trying to do. but the hardware and software are nowhere near close to being able to do it, even if amd wanted to go this direction.
the 120/60 hz split is like asking for one monitor to output 32 bit color and the other 2 monitors to do 16 bit color. technically amd could make something like this workable, but they would never bother.

 

[NoQuarter]

Right, that's not quite how Eyefinity works. By adding a 2nd video card you would only be using Crossfire to do AFR for increased FPS, not give you more display outputs to use. That also means it's limited by the usual Crossfire limitations - same family (5750+5770, or 5850+5870 works, but not 5770+5850). In a Crossfire Eyefinity setup all the monitors are still driven by the main card.

The Crossfire Eyefinity driver release (9.12 hotfix or 10.2) just lets the 2nd GPU add in performance, not use its display outputs.


So what you'd be looking at getting is a 5850 to drive all 3 monitors, and then another 5850 to increase fps. That means, 2 DVI monitors and 1 DP monitor, or 3 DVI monitors with a good DVI->DP converter. From my experience with Eyefinity it should also drop the 120Hz monitor down to match the 60Hz monitors.

 

[0roo0roo]

put whatever you are smoking down and step away. slowly. lol.

you need to do your homework and read up on eyefinity.
Attic's link:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=17637d.

eh theres gotta be better out there, gotta go through countless forum posts for any decent info..bleh

 

[cbn]

So what you'd be looking at getting is a 5850 to drive all 3 monitors, and then another 5850 to increase fps. That means, 2 DVI monitors and 1 DP monitor, or 3 DVI monitors with a good DVI->DP converter. From my experience with Eyefinity it should also drop the 120Hz monitor down to match the 60Hz monitors.

If this is true then we need ATI to do a lot more work with the display manufacturers.

Display port on LCD monitors? Is there any advantage to this besides folks needing it for Eyefinity?

No bezel monitors? Can an upstart Display company find a way to integrate this into the market?

Is it possible triple 1080p monitors could be competition to Larger pixel TVs provided the bezels are removed or almost invisible?

 

[gorobei]

displayport has massive advantages.
but the main ones are:
-higher resolution limits (& more bandwidth) way above hdmi
-direct control of display panel hardware (less need for timing signal hardware)
-ability to include audio (or more audio bandwidth than hdmi)
-smaller socket (with mini-dport)
-reduced costs

 

[cbn]

displayport has massive advantages.
but the main ones are:
-higher resolution limits (& more bandwidth) way above hdmi
-direct control of display panel hardware (less need for timing signal hardware)
-ability to include audio (or more audio bandwidth than hdmi)
-smaller socket (with mini-dport)
-reduced costs

Thanks for the info.

Could Display port (or mini-display port) do 120 Hz on a 1080p monitor?

 

[davidrees]

Thanks for the info.

Could Display port (or mini-display port) do 120 Hz on a 1080p monitor?

From what I have read, it depends on the implementation. It sounds like some DP implementations are the equivalent of dual DVI where as some are more like single DVI in terms of bandwidth.

It also sounds like the 5800 cards use the lower bandwidth version.

I will probably abandon the 120hz idea as the monitors are still pretty expensive but in my head I am trying to decide which would be better - a single 120hz monitor like the new 24" 1080 one from Acer ($400) - this would probably give me the twitchy response I enjoy but I could probably learn to handle being on a regular LCD if I had an EF setup.

I have a really nice 21" Sony CRT right now and I am wondering - if I got 3 20" LCD monitors - would that be too small? 3x 22" is probably ideal but I just don't know. The smaller screens could be more easily driven by a 5850 and they screens cost a lot less that even a 22" or 21.5".

 

[cbn]

I have a really nice 21" Sony CRT right now and I am wondering - if I got 3 20" LCD monitors - would that be too small? 3x 22" is probably ideal but I just don't know. The smaller screens could be more easily driven by a 5850 and they screens cost a lot less that even a 22" or 21.5".

Are you talking 1600 x 900 20" LCDs?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...e=&srchInDesc=

 

[davidrees]

Are you talking 1600 x 900 20" LCDs?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...e=&srchInDesc=

I have dynamitedata in my hosts file so those links never work for me but I do spend a lot of time looking at the monitors on Newegg.

yes - those 1600x900 monitors are really affordable, I just wonder how I would like them:

http://www.displaywars.com/20-inch-16x9-vs-19,8-inch-4x3

The actual area of the 20" LCDs is close to a 21" CRT but it is not nearly as tall. I think the relatively low resolution would be ok for gaming, and the lower number of pixels would help a 5850 drive them at higher frame rates, but I am afraid I would just get tired of the size...

 

[RaiderJ]

I really, REALLY wish that 120Hz monitors were the norm. 60Hz doesn't cause flicker on LCD's like it did on CRTs, but those extra fps definitely made things look better. Going from 1600x1200 @85Hz on a Sony Trinitron to a 22" Widescreen Dell was a loss in quality IMO.

As for you gaming setup, I think having multiple refresh rates for your Eyefinity setup wouldn't work, as other have mentioned. Hopefully down the road you will be able to do 3x1080p @ 120Hz. Not sure if DisplayPort can handle this bandwidth, but if not, then I don't see its advantages over DVI. It'll probably be another generation or two before the graphics cards can handle that kind of setup.

 

[davidrees]

Now that I think about it, it might not be too bad to just run 3 CRTs for a while until I can get LCDs. I saw a guy running 3 20 inch 1600x1200 panels and I thought he said that the distortions issues were much less than with wide panels.

CRTs would not be perfect, but it would probably be much easier to tune the resolution, refresh and performance.

I have an enormous desk and you can get a nice 21" CRT on craigslist for just over free these days.

Hmmm.

(yeah, I know you need a DP to VGA adaptor, but some people are using them)

 

[aigomorla]

I had a general question about eyefinity and seems like you guys know a lot about it.

So i have 2 HD4870X2's in Xfire.
I do not want to get 5970's yet, not without seeing what Fermi has to offer.

I do want to monkey with eyefinity.
Is it possible to make it work with 2 24's 1920x1200 resolution?
Or would i need a third monitor?

Everywhere im seeing its a 3 monitor setup.

If thats the case, then i could bring a 21inch 1600x1200 and pair it with my 2 24's so i keep the scaling intact.

Also im assuming i need the 10.3 cat drivers?

 

[WelshBloke]

I had a general question about eyefinity and seems like you guys know a lot about it.

So i have 2 HD4870X2's in Xfire.
I do not want to get 5970's yet, not without seeing what Fermi has to offer.

I do want to monkey with eyefinity.
Is it possible to make it work with 2 24's 1920x1200 resolution?
Or would i need a third monitor?

Everywhere im seeing its a 3 monitor setup.

If thats the case, then i could bring a 21inch 1600x1200 and pair it with my 2 24's so i keep the scaling intact.

Also im assuming i need the 10.3 cat drivers?

AFAIK it works with 2 or more monitors so your ok there ( if you dont mind the bezel right in the middle of your viewing area), but oly 5 series cards do eyefinity.

 

[davidrees]

I had a general question about eyefinity and seems like you guys know a lot about it.

So i have 2 HD4870X2's in Xfire.
I do not want to get 5970's yet, not without seeing what Fermi has to offer.

I do want to monkey with eyefinity.
Is it possible to make it work with 2 24's 1920x1200 resolution?
Or would i need a third monitor?

Everywhere im seeing its a 3 monitor setup.

If thats the case, then i could bring a 21inch 1600x1200 and pair it with my 2 24's so i keep the scaling intact.

Also im assuming i need the 10.3 cat drivers?

As the previous poster said, you need a 5000 series card.

However, the other issue is that the monitors all have to run at the same resolution so using 2 wide LCDs and a 21" CRT is going to give you all kinds of aspect ratio and stretch problems.

The other thing to remember is that the cards out currently have 2 DVI ports and 1 Display Port... port. So you can run the DVI ports as DVI or Analog VGA but the third monitor has to be Display Port *OR* you have to buy a Display Port to DVI or Display Port to VGA adaptor - and not just a cable, you need the powered adaptors which can go up to $100.

I have heard that you can get a DP to VGA adaptor for pretty cheap thought.

I think my plan is to get a 5850 and then use my CRT and buy a couple similar CRTs and just roll that way until I figure out the best way to go in an LCD.

Right now, LED backlit LCDs are just getting popular and I am seeing more and more that are not expensive - if anything, I think this technology will help bring down LCD prices even more since you dont have to have all the driver circuitry for the CFL lights and LED lights last much much longer.

So (3) 22" LED backlit LCD monitors running 1680x1050 seems to like the way to go.

This one looks like it might be a winner - especially if you could get a really good deal on it (although $160 is not bad)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824191011