Critique this system please

JuanT

Member
Aug 13, 2004
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Hi guys, long time lurker, first time poster, you know the deal. I've decided to go ahead and take the plung to the A64 754-socket cpu and was first of all wondering if anyone can offer a good argument as to why shouldn't I go for it and buy something else. I understand the 939s are going to be the standard soon, but does that mean these 754s are going to go the way of Cyrix? Yes, I'm showing my age...

Anyways, here's the system and yes I'm a gamer:

Case: Antec Sonata 380W PSU
Heatsink: Arctic Cooling Silencer 64
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 754
Motherboard: Abit KV8 K8T800
RAM: 2 x OCZ PC3200 512MB DDR400 CAS2 3-3-6
HD: Maxtor 160 GB SATA
VidCard: Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB
SoundCard: Soundblaster Live! 5.1 (I'm cheap)
DVD RW: LG GSA-4082B DVD +-R/RW/RAM CDRW
Monitor: LG Flatron E-Z T710BHK 1280 x 1024 0.20mm

With no softare packages included, it comes to $1620.00 in Canadian funds. More or less $1120.00 US dollars. You should know that this Canadian company is perhaps the closest equivalent we have of NewEgg.

Is this a good deal? Because the CPU alone is 70 bucks cheaper than the competition.

RAM, is that good enough for general gaming? I'm not a die-hard for top of the line stuff, but I want this to last. There's some CAS2.5 ram that's 20 bucks more per chip, will I see a huge increase in performance for say Doom 3 or Far Cry?

HD: I kinda dozed off when SATA came about, is there a resource somewhere where it'll talk to me like I'm five years old explaining this?

Motherboard: There's an Epox 8KDA3+ motherboard that's slightly more expensive but its NFORCE3 250GB.

DVD RW: Are these reliable? I want an all-in-one drive, I want to be able to use it for normal computing like as well as burning stuff because I do tend to accumulate a lot of stuff in my hard drives... there was a time when 1 GB seemed unreachable...

Monitor: I like CRTs for gaming, but are there reasonably priced good for gaming LCDs?

Your thoughts, comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
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http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=1371717&enterthread=y

Those were my picks. Great case, CPU, heatsink, HD, vid card, and monitor.

Is the KV8 a K8T800 or a K8T800 Pro motherboard? If it's the former, I'd get the Epox instead.

Don't know much about the LG drive.

The SB Live! 5.1 is AGED. If you can find the Chaintech AV710, get that instead. MUCH better for music, and par for games. Does the SB Live! 5.1 even support EAX2?

I wouldn't pay the premium for the OCZ memory. People have done their own benchmarks comparing low latency ram with cas2.5 and cas3 ram, and the difference is negligible. you could put that money towards a better vid card or other component.
 

JuanT

Member
Aug 13, 2004
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Whoa, thanks for the prompt reply. I actually did style most of this system to that guide of yours, and to Anandtech's and my own preferences (Maxtor drives for one).

I don't believe the K8T800 is the Pro version, so Epox it is then.

Sadly, no Chaintechs. There's some Turtle Beach stuff, but its mostly Creative SB cards. Between the Audigy X-Gamer or the Audigy 2 (same price) but twice the cost of that 5.1 card... There's an Audigy EAX 5.1 card too, slightly more but that may be worth it.

Is there a large difference in RAM brands? The OCZ is nearly 40 bucks more than another PC3200 chip from Samsung, though it doesn't really say if it's CAS2 or whatever.
 

UptheMiddle

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
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I wholeheartedly agree with jpeyton's statement "I wouldn't pay the premium for the OCZ memory. People have done their own benchmarks comparing low latency ram with cas2.5 and cas3 ram, and the difference is negligible. you could put that money towards a better vid card or other component." Performance gains are so small....

Does that MB you have in mind have onboard audio? If so, why not save a few extra bucks and use it?

Irregardless, it'll be a great system. Guess we should also ask you what your use for this system will be?

How much is that monitor? Viewsonics 19" G90fb is a very nice monitor for an even nicer price....

IMHO - as far as the socket type, I'd go with the 939 as it should offer you more flexibility in the future
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
I wholeheartedly agree with jpeyton's statement "I wouldn't pay the premium for the OCZ memory. People have done their own benchmarks comparing low latency ram with cas2.5 and cas3 ram, and the difference is negligible. you could put that money towards a better vid card or other component." Performance gains are so small....

Does that MB you have in mind have onboard audio? If so, why not save a few extra bucks and use it?

Irregardless, it'll be a great system. Guess we should also ask you what your use for this system will be?

How much is that monitor? Viewsonics 19" G90fb is a very nice monitor for an even nicer price....

IMHO - as far as the socket type, I'd go with the 939 as it should offer you more flexibility in the future

The only problem with 939 is the price premium; at least a $150 more for the CPU/mobo. AMD and vendors will support 754 for a while (the semprons will be 754, for example).
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
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RAM, is that good enough for general gaming? I'm not a die-hard for top of the line stuff, but I want this to last. There's some CAS2.5 ram that's 20 bucks more per chip, will I see a huge increase in performance for say Doom 3 or Far Cry?

Ram speeds will never affect your games. Get whatever you can afford. By the time you upgrade I'm sure whatever you buy will be obsolete.
 

JuanT

Member
Aug 13, 2004
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The Viewsonic G90FB is nearly twice the price of that LG Flatron... I've seen the Flatron and I'm happy with its image.

These Semprons, are they "inferior" to the XPs and 754s they're slated to replace? That was the impression several of my friends had, but well, they're idiots.

I'll be sticking with the slower ram, probably go even further down to the Samsungs.
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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You are right on getting the 754 according to Ariste:
Before you set your mind on a socket 939 board, let me first present you with another option.

I was in your position a few months ago, and I thought that I should go for socket 939 because of the better upgradability. However, after doing some research, I realized that there was no point.

The only reason to go to socket 939 is because of the upgradability argument. Otherwise, there is really no performance difference besides dual channel memory, which is definitely not worth the extra $130. So what happens if the upgradability argument is no longer there? There's no reason to upgrade to socket 939 then.

Well, for me, there is no upgradability argument. This is because, no matter what motherboard I buy now, I will want to swap it out for a new one the next time I upgrade. This is because new technologies such as PCI-E and DDR2 are just around the corner and by the next time I upgrade, I will want those new technologies. Getting those technologies will involve getting a new motherboard, regardless of what socket I have.

So if you are like me and will want all those new technologies when they come out, then I would go with a socket 754 board and save yourself some cash. You will have to swap out your motherboard next time you upgrade anyway, so there's no point in going with socket 939.

If this doesn't apply to you, though, by all means get socket 939. They are great processors and motherboards. But if you will end up upgrading your motherboard down the road anyway, then I just don't see the point.

Good luck,
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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You are talking about NCIX right? That will help people who will be suggesting options for you...

WHOA!: you do not want that video card if it is the 128Mb 128bit thing at NCIX. Those Sapphires are known as the "crippled 9800Pro".
They dont perform nearly as well as the 128Mb 256bit ones.
Edit: You probably have the right one - I think the bad ones are called Radeon Atlantis for $237.00 CAD Bad one link

This is only a bit more than the Samsung:
CORSAIR VALUE SELECT DUAL CHANNEL 1024MB KIT PC3200 DDR CAS2.5 2X512MB (VS1GBKIT400) $258.07 No wonder it is in the popular picks. . Corsair supposedly has good customer service.

Many people have been telling me that 512Mb is enough for gaming. Perhaps some of the newest games require more. It sure is nice to have. [a gig]

Never heard of LG before... canadian rebadger brand? My NEC is nice, but I have only so far burned CDs with it. Supposedly you can flash the NEC 2500 to a 2510, but I would just pay the extra if you want Dual Layer. Right now the dual layer media is $10 USD, so I'll wait. Unless you really want a dvd player or need to burn 4 gigs of data, could get a cheap CD burner.

mechBgon will tell you he has seen alot of people have trouble using a SATA drive as the only/boot HD. It is not as straightforward as IDE HD, but I got lucky. Search for SATA in Gen Hardware. Or search for mechBgon's posts lately.

I have heard people say that SATA is not much faster than ATA, and that ATA133 is not much faster than ATA100. Don't really know, myself. The most important thing is the 8Mb cache. In the US, you can usually get $.50/gig ATA100 8Mb. Seagates here at least have 5 year warranty if you care.

The most affordable LCDs with low response times ~ 12ns (which is what you want for gaming I read) often don't have DVI, if that is an issue. If you have room for a CRT, just go with it, as long as it will do your preferred resolutions at high Hz. I like 80 or 85 Hz at least.

Edit: yeah just use the onboard audio if mobo has it - can always get a card later.
 

mabromley

Junior Member
Aug 7, 2004
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Try crucial for your memory needs. 2x 512mb modules doesn't leave much space for upgrades later on. I would go with a 1gb and then later on when the prices fall and if you need to upgrade you can double it.

1GB ? CT12864Z40B DDR PC3200 CL=3 Non-parity US $252.99
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
dump that mobo for this then get 2 of these instead of your cas 2 waste of money.

and with all of the money you save buy this

trust me, if you are a gamer you really want to take this advice.
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
1,237
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EVERYONE HE IS CANADIAN. --> Spec his stuff from Canadian stores! Like NCIX.com


When you are speccing stuff out, it can help people if you add the price, followed by a link, rather than just the item name. Also can avoid confusion. I would post the exchange rate too or you will have people freak out on the prices.

Hmm NCIX has a radio button you can switch from US to Canada, but there might be a difference in availability or price.......
 

JuanT

Member
Aug 13, 2004
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Check out this link fellas: http://www.ncix.com/pcbuilder/index.php

That's what I'm using to build this sytem since I'm buying from them.

Yeah, I'm steering the hell away from that Atlantis card. I had to beg a friend of mine not to buy himself one... 128-bits, eww.

Anyways, the Mushkin deal ain't happening up here in Canada. The OCZ one is $148, the Mushkin is $185, and the Samsung is $108 for PC3200 DDR400 ram.

The cheapest 6800 I can see is a Gainward Ultra at over $430. The Radeon 9800 Pro is $290. The 80 bucks saived from the RAM might make up for it. I was, after all, considering buying the ATI version of the Radeon which was 330 bucks.

What do you guys think about the MSI K8N Neo Platinum mobo? Nforce3 and 250GB. Costs less than the Epox and just might make up the difference to get a 6800.

I'm just gonna go with an ATA133 drive, 8mb cache is all what I really wanted. Another question, I'm getting the Sonata with its own PSU at 380W. Is that going to be enough?

Thanks a lot for the replies guys, really very helpful!
 

JuanT

Member
Aug 13, 2004
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Oh, and LG's a pretty well-known company. Just not that popular with the American or Canadian markets as of yet: http://www.lge.com/index.do

Here's the latest updated stats:

Athlon 64 3000
MIS K8N Neo Platinum NFORCE3 250GB S754
Seagate Barracuda 200GB
Gainward Geforce 6800 128MB Retail
Samsung PC3200 DDR400 512MB x 2
Coolermaster Centurion2 Aluminum Case - Thermaltake TT-420AD 420W PSU
LG Flatron E-Z 0.20MM 1280x1024@66Hz
Creative Labs Audigy EAX PCI sound card
LG GSA-4802B DVD RW / CD RW

Totalling $1674.28 Canadian Dollars. Assuming 1 USD = 1.33 CAN, that's roughly $1121.76 USD.

I think it's a great deal, and I may buy it before the end of this week.
 

n7

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2004
21,281
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That looks like a great system JuanT.

I'll back you on the LGs being good drives; they are.

I'm surprised someone wouldn't know of them.
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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If you are getting a gig of RAM, the corsair above comes to $130 CAD/stick for CAS 2.5. The SPD of it is 2.5-3-3-8 which is fine.

It is guaranteed to work Dual Channel, but socket 754 doesn't do dual channel according to this so that is not an issue. He says Socket 939 does.

The OCZ is CAS 2-3-3-6 for $20 more/stick. I would be tempted to just get one at first if the system is strictly for games. Hopefully PC33200 memory prices don't jump up.

They both should overclock well and I have seen good compliments to both of their customer service departments.

Congrats on your new baby!

Edit: I am waiting on VPU until the new gen of ATI cards comes out next year, because I have this card and because I'm not too interested in Doom3. At least the prices for x800's and 6800's will be cheaper by then, I hope.
 

JuanT

Member
Aug 13, 2004
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I'm still torn about the vid cards myself. For one, when I upgrade I want to be able to use this still but that won't be a possibility. So will it matter much if I don't get the top of the line? I mean, some folks are doing well with their XP 2500/9800 Pro set ups.
 

trexpesto

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2004
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The prices of 9800XT and Pro should be coming down, sometime. The 256MB Pros are potentially flashable to XT, depending on which one you get. Rojackpot site has that. AT has a roundup of the vidcards in Guides or Video that shows them all side by side. 6800 and 6800 GT getting the best Price-Perf ratio, but if you can't pay, you can't pay. You can get the 9800 Pro 128Mb for around $175 USD in the US.