Critique my custom watercooling setup

[BigCoolJesus]

Opty170
Epox 9NPA+Ultra
2GB RAM
250GB Hdd
7900GT
Thermaltake Armor Case



Ok, heres what i pieced together (and yes, this is a little cheaper then buying the Swiftech kit) -

Black Ice Pro 120mm Radiator (I will be using two of these, one will be hooked up to the front intake on the Armor, and the other will be hooked up to the rear exhaust)
Swiftech pump
Simple Reservoir
Swiftech Apogee Water Block
Swiftech MCW60-B VGA Water Block
PromoChill

To explain a little, i plan on having the water come off the first radiator (at the front of the case), go to the CPU, then go to the second radiator (at the rear of case) and then go to the video card. This, i hope, will allow the coldest possible water to reach the CPU and GPU, allowing for better temperatures.


I have a few questions though -


1.) What size tubing do i need, and how many feet should i get?

2.) What connectors do i need/ should i get (im a little new to this, so if you could point me to the ones i would need, specifically on xoxide.com)?

3.) Would it be worth it to cool the Chipset and RAM via water also, or will there still be enough ventilation in the case to cool these passivly?

4.) Should i look at getting the Koolance VGA waterblock instead (the one that cools both the GPU and the RAM modules), or will there be enough air circulation to just use RAMsinks on the memory modules?



Thats about it.
Thanks :beer:

 

[aigomorla]

1. you shouldnt go for two radiators. That will just cause a reduction in flow and wont give u that much more performance as of having one pulling air from the front. Also i would get a Thermochill HE120.2 radiator over the BIP if budget isnt a issue. The swiftech QP series will perform slightly better then BIP as well, since its dual pass vs BIP single pass.

2. I would try to get a hold of 7/16 ID tubing. Remember when working with this tubing, its recomended that u stick the end going around the barb in close to boiling hot water for about 10 sec before you slide over.

3. Seems like your a little lost still on watercooling. A performance KIT from a reputable vendor might be a better solution for you as it comes with everything you would need. I would recomend the Swiftech Apex 220 kit. This kit comes complete with Apogee cpu block for around 230 dollars. It has all the tubing you would need and clamps. Even a water addative is given in the kit. You can buy this kit at jab-tech.com. If you want to cool the gpu, id would get the LP MAZE4 acytl from dangerden. I wouldnt recomend my NV-78 blocks as there a bit over rated and extremely expensive for a waterblock. *there the most expensive items in my entire watercooling kit!!!*

4. Cooling the Chipset is only needed if you are annoyed at the noise your chipset fan is making. I have heard very little benifts as in cooling by cooling the chipset block. Just pull the chipset block off, and AS5 or Ceramic it. That should give you about a 5C cooler temp. ALSO some chipset blocks will screw up your SLI abilities on your motherboard. Make sure its compatible!!!

5. Adding too many things to your loop will cause your loop to lose presure. With the items i have listed below, i am using 2 D5 pumps to power it though my loop. D5 pumps are the same as the ones u listed. Try to avoid cooling uneccessary things as you will lose performance. CPU + GPU should be your main concern, Chipset isnt unheard of, but ram :\ im kinda skeptical about watercooling ram when i can buy a 13 dollar crab fan that will cool it down just as efficiently.


Save yourself the headache of putting together a kit piece by piece, and get a kit as your first vouyer into watercooling. After you become a novice then should you piece parts indivisually. heres a link to a awesome kit that you will most likely be very satisfied with:

Swiftech Apex 220

Just remember if you need a GPU block get the DD Maze4 LP actyl version. Ive used this kit on my brothers system and my setup is virtually identical to that kit minus the apogee. Im using the storm, which is NOT a NEWBIE BLOCK, so stay away from it if your new, and i have a extra D5

 

[TrevorRC]

You might actually LOSE performance with two radiators. Lower flow rates, AND the water in the entire system will be hotter because of the back radiator.

Just food for thought.

I'll post a larger response later.
--Trevor

 

[atybimf]

Don't do two rads, do one Thermochill HE120.3. Also, I'd reccomend the Storm as the cpu block and go with an Iwaki pump or if that's too expensive the Aquaxtreme 50Z.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: TrevorRC
You might actually LOSE performance with two radiators. Lower flow rates, AND the water in the entire system will be hotter because of the back radiator.

Just food for thought.

I'll post a larger response later.
--Trevor

The downsides of two rads in series are restriction for no improvement in overall function and the second rad being pretty much useless, generally speaking. OP may even be able to avoid thesw things with some creative plumbing. There's no way he'll get warmer temps just for mounting two rads. They'll both do their jobs. The question is how well. Also, with two D5's, dangerously low flow won't be an issue. Still, I'd suggest a 120.2.

 

[nealh]

No need for 2 pumps or rads

170 and 7900 gt can easily be cooled by a good dual 120 rad....Thermochill PA120.2 or He120.2 are very nice rad

Apogee vs Storm rev 2 is 1-3C from reports with storm winning...is extra money worth it

D5 is good pump but does produce a greater heat dump into water vs 50Z(50z is ?? louder)...but with a dual 120 rad heat dump will not be an issue

7/16 ID (Int. diameter), 5/8 OD (outer diam.)..I would get Masterkleer 15ft costs about 50cents a foot

I would not use a reservoir..I did my first water llop in last month started with a res. and dumped it for a T- Line ..just takes a little longer to fill and get rid of bubbles

I would avoid any addtives ...coolant should be Distilled H20 and maybe Zerex racing coolant not antifreeze or just palin distilled water

Additives can clog the blocks...esp the Storm rev2 which is pretty restrictive...less of an issue for Apogee

I would not cool chipset very restrictive and will decrease performance with minimal overall gains

look to buy at Jab-tech.com.....

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
1. you shouldnt go for two radiators. That will just cause a reduction in flow and wont give u that much more performance as of having one pulling air from the front. Also i would get a Thermochill HE120.2 radiator over the BIP if budget isnt a issue. The swiftech QP series will perform slightly better then BIP as well, since its dual pass vs BIP single pass.

2. I would try to get a hold of 7/16 ID tubing. Remember when working with this tubing, its recomended that u stick the end going around the barb in close to boiling hot water for about 10 sec before you slide over.

3. Seems like your a little lost still on watercooling. A performance KIT from a reputable vendor might be a better solution for you as it comes with everything you would need. I would recomend the Swiftech Apex 220 kit. This kit comes complete with Apogee cpu block for around 230 dollars. It has all the tubing you would need and clamps. Even a water addative is given in the kit. You can buy this kit at jab-tech.com. If you want to cool the gpu, id would get the LP MAZE4 acytl from dangerden. I wouldnt recomend my NV-78 blocks as there a bit over rated and extremely expensive for a waterblock. *there the most expensive items in my entire watercooling kit!!!*

4. Cooling the Chipset is only needed if you are annoyed at the noise your chipset fan is making. I have heard very little benifts as in cooling by cooling the chipset block. Just pull the chipset block off, and AS5 or Ceramic it. That should give you about a 5C cooler temp. ALSO some chipset blocks will screw up your SLI abilities on your motherboard. Make sure its compatible!!!

5. Adding too many things to your loop will cause your loop to lose presure. With the items i have listed below, i am using 2 D5 pumps to power it though my loop. D5 pumps are the same as the ones u listed. Try to avoid cooling uneccessary things as you will lose performance. CPU + GPU should be your main concern, Chipset isnt unheard of, but ram :\ im kinda skeptical about watercooling ram when i can buy a 13 dollar crab fan that will cool it down just as efficiently.


Save yourself the headache of putting together a kit piece by piece, and get a kit as your first vouyer into watercooling. After you become a novice then should you piece parts indivisually. heres a link to a awesome kit that you will most likely be very satisfied with:

Swiftech Apex 220

Just remember if you need a GPU block get the DD Maze4 LP actyl version. Ive used this kit on my brothers system and my setup is virtually identical to that kit minus the apogee. Im using the storm, which is NOT a NEWBIE BLOCK, so stay away from it if your new, and i have a extra D5

Well i guess ill go with the swiftech kit and get a GPU block.......but one last question - Do i have to mount the radiator on the outside?
I know theres room in the Armor to mount it on the inside, so will i lose performance if i do? Should i still use two fans, or one if i mount it on the inside?

 

[HardWarrior]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the blanket "no need for two pumps" thing. The Storm rocks with the added pressure. However, suggesting that no additives are needed is just plain bad advice. Fungal growth WILL happen in straight distilled, even if you flush every week.

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Im gonna go with the Swiftech Apex WaterCooling Kit, but i have a few more questions -


1.) Will i still get good performance if i mount the radiator on the inside of my case?
Should i still use two fans if i mount it on the inside?

2.) Will this kit allow for better cooling (and a better OC chance) then a Thermalright SI-120 or Scythe Ninja?

3.) Will there still be good airflow (even with the radiator attached) to provide some cooling for the Chipset, RAM and GDDR3 memory modules (video card RAM) and other small heat sources?

4.) If i wanted to use PromoChill (instead of distilled water + the additive included in the kit), how many ounces should i get (32 enough)??

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: nealh
No need for 2 pumps or rads

Apogee vs Storm rev 2 is 1-3C from reports with storm winning...is extra money worth it

I would not cool chipset very restrictive and will decrease performance with minimal overall gains

look to buy at Jab-tech.com.....

I have the storm. Storms were ment for IHS removal cooling. Also the design in the block requires high pressure for greater effectivness. For example, if i plug the apogee on my loop where i have 2 D5 pumps, my storm actually performed around 5-7C better with IHS on. Not many reviews will use 2 D5 pumps when doing there tests. Also having 2 D5 pumps can save you incase one happens to DIE. This way the downtime isnt as bad if you had to wait to get another pump before you can have your system running.

Many people cool there chipsets. Problem is finding a block that can support the board with SLI. Also people like me who have 2 pumps wont have to worry about chipset flow pressure because it wont be anything compared to the storm.

Originally posted by: BigCoolJesus
Im gonna go with the Swiftech Apex WaterCooling Kit, but i have a few more questions -


1.) Will i still get good performance if i mount the radiator on the inside of my case?
Should i still use two fans if i mount it on the inside?

2.) Will this kit allow for better cooling (and a better OC chance) then a Thermalright SI-120 or Scythe Ninja?

3.) Will there still be good airflow (even with the radiator attached) to provide some cooling for the Chipset, RAM and GDDR3 memory modules (video card RAM) and other small heat sources?

4.) If i wanted to use PromoChill (instead of distilled water + the additive included in the kit), how many ounces should i get (32 enough)??

1. To answer the ops question. It might be a better idea to mount the radiator externally. Unless you can have the radiator mounted in the front. You could use a scythe karma bay and mount the raditor in the front securly. I have the armor and if your not using any of the bays for hard drives and instead of the ones next to the PSU, u could pull that off and only lose 6/11 bays the armor has. You could always use hard drive mounts to mount hd's behind the radiator giving 2 for 1 on that department as well. BE CREATIVE!! You just want the coolest air to be running though the radiator. So dont have the radiator in the rear unless you have really incrediable air flow.

2. Overclocking is always a luck of the draw. Watercooling however will allow you to push your voltage up to 1.55 easily and not have insane load temps. So in a sense, yes it could allow you to overclock higher.

3. Refer to my statement on question 1 about mounting the radiator up front sucking air in from the front. And yes the kit comes with fans that push about 45-50CMF's and there pretty quiet.

4. 32 ounces is more then enough. You can always top off with Distilled Water. Make sure its distilled.

 

[HardWarrior]

You've mentioned before that the Storm was meant for CPU's without IHS's, morla. I did my homework before buying a Storm, that includes hanging out at Pro-Cooling, and I've never seen anyone else say this, including Cathar. I'm not challenging your right to remove your IHS; it's just that I see doing so as an affectation, not a necessity. After all, the IHS is there for a good reason, and for me taking a chance by removing it just isn't worth what must be meager decrease in C/W.

 

[nealh]

I have no idea why 2 pumps would give a 5-7C difference with a storm vs apogewe seems a bit much esp with the heat dump from D5 pumps..I can not doubt your tests...

I saw nothing regarding Storm rev 2 being intended for IHSless cpus...Cathar's design is what Swiftech bought essentially in making the Strom rev 2....so I have real doubts about this

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: nealh
I have no idea why 2 pumps would give a 5-7C difference with a storm vs apogewe

Which is exactly why you shouldn't have made the comment you did.

seems a bit much esp with the heat dump from D5 pumps..

Just saying "heat dump" doesn't really address the issue. Two D5's add ~40 watts to a loop. My HE120.3 swallows that, plus operational load, quite easily.

 

[nealh]

sorry you feel that way..BTW are you the WCing police around here...I see you are not backing why it would cause a 5-7C drop with those blocks...Often you are very helpful...but this comment is trolling and nasty for no reason...piss off

aigomorla: does not list his radiator ...but simply changing an Apogee for Storm rev2...and seeing 5-7C drop..from everything I have read ...this is more than expected


Yes heat dump is not a issue with a triple rad...the OP was not even considering a triple rad

my PA160 would not be happy with 2 D5/MCP655 pumps

 

[HardWarrior]

No, I'm the person who's smart enough to stay away from topics I'm light on (hint). BCJ asked for advice, not hearsay and intellectual bumbling. You know, I would have been glad to explain exactly why the Storm runs best under high-pressure, but you come off as so freaking pompous and cock sure of yourself that I deemed the exercise a complete waste of time. As for pissing off, you snot-nose, consider that route for yourself. I know I would if I had made as big an ass out of myself as you have. A passing thought for you, 2+2=4.

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Just to back up the whole Storm vs. Apogee thing. The Storm IS MEANT for setups with a higher flow rate (in this case, morla's because he has 2 d5's) and will actually perform worse then the Apogee on a setup with a smaller flow rate.
This can be confirmed by looking at reviews (as i have), where the reviewing site had two exact systems setup (using the Apex Ultra kit with the addition of a GPU block), except System A used an Apogee and System B used a Storm. In this setup, the Apogee did 1-3C better then the Storm. But when they took out the GPU block (thus increasing flow pressure to the CPU) the Storm did a lot better (3-6C) then the Apogee.
Adding another pump instead of taking out the GPU block would result in the same flow increase as seen in the review, thus explaining why morla got the results he did.

Can we stop arguing now?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
You've mentioned before that the Storm was meant for CPU's without IHS's, morla. I did my homework before buying a Storm, that includes hanging out at Pro-Cooling, and I've never seen anyone else say this, including Cathar. I'm not challenging your right to remove your IHS; it's just that I see doing so as an affectation, not a necessity. After all, the IHS is there for a good reason, and for me taking a chance by removing it just isn't worth what must be meager decrease in C/W.

Heh to answer your statement about IHS, i forget where this source was given, but wiz can lead you in the right direction. I found out almost the same time wiz got his storm that it was intended with IHS removal. And believe me, it makes quite a big difference and not a few degree's C. To be honest i would say about 5-6C lower. My idle temps are about 1-2C above ambient room temps and the radiator i am using is the swiftech 120x2. I am concidering an upgrade to a thermochill, but i dont see the need as of this moment. If you want hard proof HW, pm wiz and ask him. Im sure he has it all saved somewhere.

Originally posted by: nealh
I have no idea why 2 pumps would give a 5-7C difference with a storm vs apogewe seems a bit much esp with the heat dump from D5 pumps..I can not doubt your tests...

I saw nothing regarding Storm rev 2 being intended for IHSless cpus...Cathar's design is what Swiftech bought essentially in making the Strom rev 2....so I have real doubts about this

The design on the storm was ment for high flow. The block causes a high flow reduction, that without proper flow, the block will not perform better then the apogee. I have done tests on this as well when setting up my brothers loop for the hell of it. The Apogee performed slightly better then my storm rev. 1 back when i was on single pump. As i added the second pump and the newer rev.2 storm block, my temps are on average 5-7C lower then what the apogee could dish out.

Originally posted by: nealh
sorry you feel that way..BTW are you the WCing police around here...I see you are not backing why it would cause a 5-7C drop with those blocks...Often you are very helpful...but this comment is trolling and nasty for no reason...piss off

aigomorla: does not list his radiator ...but simply changing an Apogee for Storm rev2...and seeing 5-7C drop..from everything I have read ...this is more than expected


Yes heat dump is not a issue with a triple rad...the OP was not even considering a triple rad

my PA160 would not be happy with 2 D5/MCP655 pumps

I for one takes any advice HW gives with great concideration. He has been in the field most likely longer then you and me put together, and he has also helped me out with a petcock drain which most of the people on this forum would have absolutely no clue on what it is. I would like to concider him as gandolf the gray because he states he's a old man

For my radiator look above. Its just the swiftech 120x2QP series. This is more then enough radiator for because my radiator is external and mounted at the back right behind a window so it gets fresh cool air though its fins.

Also, i hope you know that the PA160 was shown not to perform as well as the 120.2 The proof can be found all over xtremesystems.org and other watercooling sites. The PA160 is however a excellent radiator so please dont think im bashing it. Im just mearly stating that the performance on the 120.2 was shown to be greater.

 

[nealh]

My comments were completelty misinterpreted by Hardwarrior and for him to post what he did was not called for..anyway..I am done on the discussion

As for the PA160...I knew it can perform "close" to 120.2 with the right fan...look at Marci post on radiators at XS

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77260

I never intended it for direct comparison/replacement for 120.2..it worked for my needs

I got it for use as an internal radiator in P180(that I modded..not the best WCing case but did not want to buy another case...in retrospect the P180 is good for quiet but has very poor airflow and not a good case for cooling...I have owned this for nearly a yr..when it first came out)

..I wish I had looked at top mounted 120.2...like a performance-pc

I would never recommend a P180 for watercooling or anything but quiet needs...airflow is just not great....with the door closed it chokes my PA160 which mounted where cage was

I am overall very happy with my watercooling setup

My ambients are 24-26C+
PA160 with Panaflo L1A on fan controller@12v MCP655 set at 3(less idle heat need to test setting 5 underload)

170 0550 vpmw 2800@1.43v idle at 32/33 load 42/43..temps pretty close with 7v setting as well
165 0550 vpmw 2800@1.43 idle at 30C load 40C

PA160 is good radiator in right situation..P180 is not necessarily it...but I wanted an internal solution with fairly easy case mod

Looking back I should have gone external with PA120.2 or HE120.2 but was not sure if I wanted that...then in the future get a better case

 

[BigCoolJesus]

So before i order, will i regret going with watercooling, or will this be the better route then a high-end air cooler?

 

[nealh]

As I said above, I did my first water cooling loop ever about 6 wks ago..I have learned alot and have a ways to go

I think it depends on your goals, expectations and $$$

I think WCing is expensive compared to air...but I have spent a fair bit of money on HS and fans

The case is an important factor...I am not real good at mods....but most cases need some..cutting holes for the radiator placement

If I recall you case has good amount of room so alot of options for placment of parts....

your looking to spend about $220-225..but I think you would be better of with single 120.2 radiator

I spent a bit more than you....
mcp655 $75
MCW60 $60
storm rev2 $80
PA160 $90
masterkleer $10
clamps,barbs,tube cutter(not necessary but and cleaner cut) $30...also kept buying more items to try
zerex...$5

not to mention all the distilled water and vinegar for cleaning the radiator and blocks....


I enjoyed doing it as a project but not cost effective....I say give it a go for the fun of it

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: BigCoolJesus
So before i order, will i regret going with watercooling, or will this be the better route then a high-end air cooler?

Ultimately, only you can make that decision, based on things no one here could know. From personal experience I can say that it's expensive, a PITA sometimes and if you want to be good at it, you'll have to spend some time reasoning things out for yourself. There are no books or how-too manuals to fall back on. If, however, you like a challenge and are a true hobbyist at heart, water-cooling kicks ass. In terms of improving your rigs overall performance, air doesn't compare.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: nealh
My comments were completelty misinterpreted by Hardwarrior and for him to post what he did was not called for..anyway..I am done on the discussion

Oh quit it. You strolled in, with your 6-months of experience across ONE loop, and tried to offer advice that was dead wrong. I countered you, without name-calling OR childish exhortations to "piss off." What's wrong with some online people that they think they can say just about anything and not be called on it??? If you were anywhere near as smart as you obviously THINK you are you'd stop living in your rig (Look ma, I've got a PA160!!!) and expand your knowledge before trying to offer help. And no, I didn't misinterpret ANYTHING you've said. All of it was clear as crystal, and deeply flawed.

I'm going to take you at your word and assume that this exchange is DONE.

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Well the money is the only factor im worried about. Compared to my air setup i had in mind originally (SI-120, V-1 Ultra, Scythe 120mm fans ($14 each), plus fan controllers and other little trinkets), this water cooling setup is about $150 more. Mind you, on this build im not limited to cash (well i am, nothing more then $2100), so i dont mind putting the extra into watercooling, but only if it will serve as better cooling then my proposed air setup. From all the reviews ive seen, it seems like all watercooling has to offer is 5-6C cooler then air, and it doesnt get much better until you get into peltier cooling.

So right now i guess im on the fence. On the one hand it would be a fun project and i do love doing mods (such as my Xbox360 R/C car i sold here earlier), but on the other if im not going to get more then a few degrees less out of it, i could easily spend the money on a different aspect (such as a 7900GTX or a SCSI setup or a better monitor)

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: BigCoolJesus
Well the money is the only factor im worried about. Compared to my air setup i had in mind originally (SI-120, V-1 Ultra, Scythe 120mm fans ($14 each), plus fan controllers and other little trinkets), this water cooling setup is about $150 more. Mind you, on this build im not limited to cash (well i am, nothing more then $2100), so i dont mind putting the extra into watercooling, but only if it will serve as better cooling then my proposed air setup. From all the reviews ive seen, it seems like all watercooling has to offer is 5-6C cooler then air, and it doesnt get much better until you get into peltier cooling.

So right now i guess im on the fence. On the one hand it would be a fun project and i do love doing mods (such as my Xbox360 R/C car i sold here earlier), but on the other if im not going to get more then a few degrees less out of it, i could easily spend the money on a different aspect (such as a 7900GTX or a SCSI setup or a better monitor)

Uhhhh i would get the monitor. >.< A monitor is something that wont lose its value very quickly. I bought my 20.1 for 350 about 6 months ago, and its still worth about 350. Dump money into the monitor first and then work your way around the other parts. Thats how i would go.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: BigCoolJesus
Well the money is the only factor im worried about. Compared to my air setup i had in mind originally (SI-120, V-1 Ultra, Scythe 120mm fans ($14 each), plus fan controllers and other little trinkets), this water cooling setup is about $150 more. Mind you, on this build im not limited to cash (well i am, nothing more then $2100), so i dont mind putting the extra into watercooling, but only if it will serve as better cooling then my proposed air setup. From all the reviews ive seen, it seems like all watercooling has to offer is 5-6C cooler then air, and it doesnt get much better until you get into peltier cooling.

So right now i guess im on the fence. On the one hand it would be a fun project and i do love doing mods (such as my Xbox360 R/C car i sold here earlier), but on the other if im not going to get more then a few degrees less out of it, i could easily spend the money on a different aspect (such as a 7900GTX or a SCSI setup or a better monitor)

Yeah, there are benefits to water, but it's essentially another expensive hobby. You're right to weigh it carefully against other things you need/want. One aspect about temps with water; it isn't just a few degrees off the top. It's also about consistently low temps, through a range of potential ambients. I don't know about you guys, but I like opening the windows during the summer. With or without house fans, I can still run my computer with all the stabilty I've become used to, even in a very hot room.