Crime plummets in DC and IL after SC rulings

[zsdersw]

I wonder what spidey and his ilk would do if an anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-union, pro-choice, pro-SSM, pro-CCW politician... with a record to prove it... was running for president.

I'm guessing he wouldn't vote for that politician because of the pro-SSM and pro-choice bits.

... but I and almost everyone else in America would vote for that candidate.

 

[Nebor]

I wonder what spidey and his ilk would do if an anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-union, pro-choice, pro-SSM, pro-CCW politician... with a record to prove it... was running for president.

I'm guessing he wouldn't vote for that politician because of the pro-SSM and pro-choice bits.

... but I and almost everyone else in America would vote for that candidate.

What do you think spidey has against SSM?

 

[Jhhnn]

Sounds like somebody is mad that gun control nuts have to wait a few more years to plot their takeover of this country from unarmed citizens.

Heh. Now there's a conspiracy theory! Woo-hoo!

 

[xBiffx]

Is this dot invisible? Il and DC mayors and liberal politicians/pundits predicted blood in the streets because of the landmark SC rulings, just the opposite happened.

Its funny because with all the back and forth in this thread, the liberals haven't been able to refute this simple fact. Since the article in the OP was simply making this point and not trying to say that the lack of gun control laws was lowering the crime rates as all the liberals in this thread are trying to say. Actually I think the article was saying there is no way to know, but this could be one explanation. The fact that the wild west shoot outs aren't happening is the real point here, some just failed miserably at grasping that point.

 

[momeNt]

Heh. Now there's a conspiracy theory! Woo-hoo!

I prefer my tinfoil hats to be lined with faux fur (think of the animals please) so the sharp edges don't nick my ears.

 

[Lithium381]

I'm curious to know the amount of crime perpetrated by CCW-holders/registered owners vs gangbangers that bought the gun on the black market....

 

[soccerballtux]

what the hell giving people consequences for actions gotta stop that sense asap

 

[sactoking]

Classic case of confirmation bias.

 

[soccerballtux]

Classic case of confirmation bias.

classic case of head up ass

 

[Acanthus]

LOL a 1 month blip is now definitive statistical proof.

As someone who is very pro-gun, you are still quite retarded.

 

[sactoking]

classic case of head up ass

Yes, OP certainly does have that.

 

[werepossum]

Is this dot invisible? Il and DC mayors and liberal politicians/pundits predicted blood in the streets because of the landmark SC rulings, just the opposite happened.

All liberal reaction to less restrictive gun laws follow the same trajectory.
1. Violence will skyrocket! It'll be the Wild West all over again? Blood will run in the streets!
2. Hmm, crime went down.
3. That proves nothing! Just like it proved nothing all the other times!

It's almost as if criminals value their own lives and yet don't obey gun laws. Weird!

 

[irishScott]

All liberal reaction to less restrictive gun laws follow the same trajectory.
1. Violence will skyrocket! It'll be the Wild West all over again? Blood will run in the streets!
2. Hmm, crime went down.
3. That proves nothing! Just like it proved nothing all the other times!

It's almost as if criminals value their own lives and yet don't obey gun laws. Weird!

Yep. However if studies "proving" abortion leads to better education levels come out, all of a sudden it's ZOMG abortion should be legal everywhere in all cases!

Don't get me wrong I'm for limited abortion and I can understand how it could benefit education levels, among other things; but it's still correlation = causation. If you're going to act as if that's been definitively proven, then you should accept that same mentality on gun control.

And for the record, I'm not just using spidey's link as a support. There have been studies and real-world experiments (see my example of Kennesaw GA that all the liberals in this thread are avoiding) that "prove" gun freedoms reduce crime as much as any study "proves" that available abortion increases education levels.

 

[fskimospy]

All liberal reaction to less restrictive gun laws follow the same trajectory.
1. Violence will skyrocket! It'll be the Wild West all over again? Blood will run in the streets!
2. Hmm, crime went down.
3. That proves nothing! Just like it proved nothing all the other times!

It's almost as if criminals value their own lives and yet don't obey gun laws. Weird!

It's almost like a great deal of time and energy has been put into researching the effects of gun control laws, with no conclusive determination of their effect (or lack thereof) on crime!

Nah, it's probably another LIEbural conspiracy.

 

[irishScott]

It's almost like a great deal of time and energy has been put into researching the effects of gun control laws, with no conclusive determination of their effect (or lack thereof) on crime!

Nah, it's probably another LIEbural conspiracy.

Got some examples to back that up chief?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

All liberal reaction to less restrictive gun laws follow the same trajectory.
1. Violence will skyrocket! It'll be the Wild West all over again? Blood will run in the streets!
2. Hmm, crime went down.
3. That proves nothing! Just like it proved nothing all the other times!

It's almost as if criminals value their own lives and yet don't obey gun laws. Weird!

I am in favor of gun rights, though in many respects I am politically liberal. That said, the change in violent crime statistics over this short a period can't be tied to any particular cause with any degree of confidence. These types of statistics change from year to year for reasons that may or may not even reflect a clear trend. In general violent crime in the United States has been decreasing since the early 1990s due to a reduced percentage of people in the high-crime age range of 16-25 (a change which some theorize itself occurred due to Roe v. Wade in 1973).

 

[fskimospy]

Got some examples to back that up chief?

Sure! I'm so glad you asked. This paper is a fairly good summary of the various issues facing those trying to make good studies on gun control, gun violence, whatever.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10881&page=1

It's long, but the TLDR version of it is that we have huge data problems in trying to analyze this issue, and it makes actual good conclusions hard to come by. This is why you encounter dueling studies that come to opposite conclusions, most likely.

 

[irishScott]

Sure! I'm so glad you asked. This paper is a fairly good summary of the various issues facing those trying to make good studies on gun control, gun violence, whatever.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10881&page=1

It's long, but the TLDR version of it is that we have huge data problems in trying to analyze this issue, and it makes actual good conclusions hard to come by. This is why you encounter dueling studies that come to opposite conclusions, most likely.

200 pages, well since gun rights are kind of my political soapbox I'll read it (don't have time for all of it tonight, but I'll read it). I do note there is a "dissent" section, but I can't judge the accuracy of either without reading the whole thing. I still refer to my Kennesaw GA example as a real-world experiment where mandated firearm ownership reduced burglaries by close to 80%.

 

[fskimospy]

200 pages, well since gun rights are kind of my political soapbox I'll read it (don't have time for all of it tonight, but I'll read it). I do note there is a "dissent" section, but I can't judge the accuracy of either without reading the whole thing. I still refer to my Kennesaw GA example as a real-world experiment where mandated firearm ownership reduced burglaries by close to 80%.

I read it a few years ago (well, excerpts from it), and it's interesting stuff. It's primary point is that our methods of figuring out which gun laws work and which ones don't are terrible.

 

[bfdd]

Anyways, I'm not really interested in getting in a big debate about this. If you go look at the research on gun control you'll find that there's a whole lot of conflicting information on the topic. Regardless of how you feel about the issue you should also know well enough to not take a single year in an isolated area and try to draw this type of conclusion with it.

The only conflict that has arisen is how adamantly you and those who think like you defend your stance even though time and time again it's proven to be bullshit. We'll settle this now. Every increase in gun regulation, in a major city, as lead to increased crime rates. Prove me wrong. Then when you do we'll look at how many had increased crime rates vs decreased crime rates and over what period of time. If the majority see decreased crime rates, then on average it is better to have laxer gun control laws to stifle crime vs the opposite.

Also, if poverty is the leading cause of crime or at least being "poor", then you would think we'd be seeing a rise of crime around the nation as we get "poorer". You know, a scheme by the "rich" to get us to all kill each other. It's working fantastic huh? lol. Crime is committed because of ease and risk assessment. If I'm risking less than I stand to gain by my illegal actions, why would I not take such illegal actions? For instance, I could use my skills of finance and cheat my way into a few million dollars. With the proper steps, I can make sure they can never cease that money. I'd do 5 years for said crime if caught, but even for 5 years of jail I'm going to be coming out into a few million dollars, so what the fuck do I care? I'd do 5 years for 10 million dollars. Hell I'm willing to bet a large majority of people would do 5 years for 1 million dollars.

 

[shortylickens]

I'm pro gun but am pretty sure this is a troll thread and cant support it.

 

[fskimospy]

The only conflict that has arisen is how adamantly you and those who think like you defend your stance even though time and time again it's proven to be bullshit. We'll settle this now. Every increase in gun regulation, in a major city, as lead to increased crime rates. Prove me wrong. Then when you do we'll look at how many had increased crime rates vs decreased crime rates and over what period of time. If the majority see decreased crime rates, then on average it is better to have laxer gun control laws to stifle crime vs the opposite.

Also, if poverty is the leading cause of crime or at least being "poor", then you would think we'd be seeing a rise of crime around the nation as we get "poorer". You know, a scheme by the "rich" to get us to all kill each other. It's working fantastic huh? lol. Crime is committed because of ease and risk assessment. If I'm risking less than I stand to gain by my illegal actions, why would I not take such illegal actions? For instance, I could use my skills of finance and cheat my way into a few million dollars. With the proper steps, I can make sure they can never cease that money. I'd do 5 years for said crime if caught, but even for 5 years of jail I'm going to be coming out into a few million dollars, so what the fuck do I care? I'd do 5 years for 10 million dollars. Hell I'm willing to bet a large majority of people would do 5 years for 1 million dollars.

That's now how evidence works. You don't get to make ridiculous, blanket statements and then declare that you must be proven wrong.

 

[xBiffx]

That's now how evidence works. You don't get to make ridiculous, blanket statements and then declare that you must be proven wrong.

Your statements are so ignorant. If you knew anything about conjecture, theory, or hypothesis you would know what you said is fucking stupid. Half of science is trying to disprove what you think is true and not the other way around. Granted this isn't rocket science but the theory is the same. Thanks for the blanket statement though.

 

[fskimospy]

Your statements are so ignorant. If you knew anything about conjecture, theory, or hypothesis you would know what you said is fucking stupid. Half of science is trying to disprove what you think is true and not the other way around. Granted this isn't rocket science but the theory is the same. Thanks for the blanket statement though.

You're embarrassing yourself right now.

 

[bfdd]

That's now how evidence works. You don't get to make ridiculous, blanket statements and then declare that you must be proven wrong.

I'm making generalizations. If you want to say "this doesn't work" well we can dig into that. We can see if crime rates went up or not, the legislation of gun control may not be the only determining factor, but we're looking for statistics(i hate statistics) based on crime rates with the variable being gun control laws. Maybe they aren't the only thing, but we can deduce if they're causing more problems or relieving them. So right now, it looks like that laxer gun control laws might be helping stifle crime. If you want to argue against it, then it's up to you to produce the evidence otherwise. I'm willing to participate in this experiment as well, but you'd rather not have anything to do with it and just shout me down. Just like the good little tool you are.