creeping along in 1st very slowly, is that lugging the engine?

[BlahBlahYouToo]

i've been driving this way for awhile in a couple of cars without problems but recently heard that this is bad for the engine.

there's a lot of stop and go traffic where i am and i get lazy so i don't want to clutch in and out. so i will just keep it in 1st without throttling and let the engine pull the car forward slowly. i do this for as long as i can, until i'm inches from the guy in front of me.
sometime the car will buckle, not like a wild bull, just slightly.

i try not to do it uphill where i can hear the engine straining.

it's a 2004 honda accord 2.4 for reference of how much power

 

[DivideBYZero]

Not a problem unless you don't have enough torque to move the car, such as pulling away from a stop uphill. As long as you can engage the clutch fully and the car pulls without feeling like it's about to stall, keep on doing what you do.

Answer: It's not bad for your engine.

 

[BW86]

I usually do this

 

[jhu]

I do it all the time. Hell, I can idle in 5th in my car on flat roads without lugging.

 

[fleabag]

You can't lug a modern (last 20 years) fuel injected car. It's doubtful you've ever experienced lugging because if you had, it sounds like a horrific sound coming from the engine.

 

[BlackTigers]

I do it all the time. Hell, I can idle in 5th in my car on flat roads without lugging.

What car?!

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Not a problem unless you don't have enough torque to move the car, such as pulling away from a stop uphill. As long as you can engage the clutch fully and the car pulls without feeling like it's about to stall, keep on doing what you do.

Answer: It's not bad for your engine.

what about when it makes that low rumbling sound?

 

[PhoKingGuy]

What car?!

he has an MKV Jetta I think

 

[vshah]

I do this too. as long as it is smooth and not jerky, its fine.

 

[JulesMaximus]

1st gear is made for starting out from a stop. It really is extremely difficult to lug an engine in 1st gear...unless you're rolling backwards and slipping the clutch.

 

[fleabag]

what about when it makes that low rumbling sound?

That low groan? Love that! That's normal and it's just the sound you get when the engine is under load.. I try to get that sound from my truck when revving it but can't, it just doesn't have the low growl. The only way to get that sound is to be driving it while under moderate to high load.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

That low groan? Love that! That's normal and it's just the sound you get when the engine is under load.. I try to get that sound from my truck when revving it but can't, it just doesn't have the low growl. The only way to get that sound is to be driving it while under moderate to high load.

How many fucking cars do you own

 

[DivideBYZero]

what about when it makes that low rumbling sound?

I would assume that your RPM's are reaching the idle zone and you should either apply some throttle or dip the clutch. That sound is most peoples definition of 'lugging' (it's a North American phrase, we use 'labouring'). It is not going to do any damage unless you do it 24/7. i.e., Don't aim to do it every time you drive the car.

 

[Zenmervolt]

You can't lug a modern (last 20 years) fuel injected car. It's doubtful you've ever experienced lugging because if you had, it sounds like a horrific sound coming from the engine.

Wow. Just... Wow.

Whether or not an engine is lugging has nothing whatsoever to do with fuel injection. Nothing. At all. Furthermore, it's absolutely possible to lug an engine without hearing any odd noises from the engine.

Lugging an engine occurs when one selects a gear that is too high for the given conditions. For example, selecting 5th gear at 25 mph in a car with a small 4-cylinder engine would be virtually guaranteed to cause lugging even at steady speeds on flat roads; if the driver attempted to accelerate, the lugging would be even worse. If one attempted such scenarios, the car would bog down and potentially buck or lurch slightly. Extreme lugging can cause pinging/knocking or even piston slap, but these last only occur in instances where the driver is so incredibly stupid that he doesn't notice the obvious early warnings of bogging, bucking, or lurching.

Lugging an engine does technically result in small gains in fuel economy, but it is one of those "penny wise, pound foolish" decisions as lugging places great stress on an engine's bottom end as well as on the pistons and rings. Habitually running an engine in too low of an RPM range for a given gear will cause long-term issues for the rod bearings, the wrist pin bearings, the rings, and even the cylinder bores and will lead to excessive oil consumption.

Regarding the OP's question: Even at idle speed, it is virtually impossible to lug an engine in 1st gear (you'd need to be on a rather steep incline to do so) and 2nd gear is also fine as long as you're on flat ground.

ZV

 

[Billb2]

Lugging, being from low speeds in low gear or low RPM in higher gears results in each power stroke (from each individual piston/rod combination) supplying to much power to the crank shaft, resulting in excessive bearing (wrist pin/rod and crankshaft) wear.

There is no "below this point it is bad" scanario. It's a continum. The "goal" should be to smooth out the power strokes, and generally that's keeping the engine over, say 1500 RPM when it's connected to the wheels. Will idling in 1st gear cause problems? Yes, but it's just not that bad of a problem if not done to excess, it just causes some unnecessary wear. The inverse is also true. Shifting at 5000 RPM won't cause a "problem" just excessive wear.

Just from my own experience, what the OP is doing can cause bearing failure in 225,000 miles, instead for 250,000 miles. It's "excessive" wear, but not much, so long as there is no bucking/shaking. That can physically "pound" bearings (connecting rod/crank shaft) out of round.

 

[Meghan54]

You can't lug a modern (last 20 years) fuel injected car. It's doubtful you've ever experienced lugging because if you had, it sounds like a horrific sound coming from the engine.

Wow. Just... Wow.

Whether or not an engine is lugging has nothing whatsoever to do with fuel injection. Nothing. At all. Furthermore, it's absolutely possible to lug an engine without hearing any odd noises from the engine.


ZV

I know....fleabag strikes again. Of course, ZV, fleabag shows his ignorance and downright trollbaiting by the comment made above which contradicts another comment made by him in another thread.....

...the car can't climb the hill in 3rd gear (maybe it can if I have it revved to its peak torque) but CAN do it fairly easily in 2nd gear.

(That's in reference to his Civic, which was certainly built within the last 20 years and has fuel injection.) Of course, he'll never comment about this, but what can you expect? Fleabag is just trolling....pure and simple. He's pretty good at it.

 

[sdifox]

this is what he refers to as "car". I prefer to think he has a language issue.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

good info.
3rd gear and higher, I will never let it drop below 1500.
2nd gear, i'll go as low as 1200, maybe 1000... translates to about 10mph.
1st gear, if i'm creeping, it gets to about 700.

one thing i NEVER do, is from a low RPM like mentioned above, is flooring it.
i'll apply throttle lightly until i'm at 1500-2000 rpm before i apply more throttle.

Lugging, being from low speeds in low gear or low RPM in higher gears results in each power stroke (from each individual piston/rod combination) supplying to much power to the crank shaft, resulting in excessive bearing (wrist pin/rod and crankshaft) wear.

There is no "below this point it is bad" scanario. It's a continum. The "goal" should be to smooth out the power strokes, and generally that's keeping the engine over, say 1500 RPM when it's connected to the wheels. Will idling in 1st gear cause problems? Yes, but it's just not that bad of a problem if not done to excess, it just causes some unnecessary wear. The inverse is also true. Shifting at 5000 RPM won't cause a "problem" just excessive wear.

Just from my own experience, what the OP is doing can cause bearing failure in 225,000 miles, instead for 250,000 miles. It's "excessive" wear, but not much, so long as there is no bucking/shaking. That can physically "pound" bearings (connecting rod/crank shaft) out of round.

 

[fleabag]

I know....fleabag strikes again. Of course, ZV, fleabag shows his ignorance and downright trollbaiting by the comment made above which contradicts another comment made by him in another thread.....




(That's in reference to his Civic, which was certainly built within the last 20 years and has fuel injection.) Of course, he'll never comment about this, but what can you expect? Fleabag is just trolling....pure and simple. He's pretty good at it.

I don't understand, firstly how am I trollbaiting and secondly I don't see how I'm contradicting myself.. How does the idea that one cannot "truly lug" a modern engine because of FI contradict the fact that a hill I drive on needs to be in 2nd gear in order to ascend?

 

[Meghan54]

Because if you use 3rd gear, you lug the engine, you idiot! Or don't you understand what lugging an engine is, anyway?

BTW.....how was school today? Any girls make any advances towards you? Eh, probably not....they most likely got tired of you squealing and running away.

 

[fleabag]

Because if you use 3rd gear, you lug the engine, you idiot! Or don't you understand what lugging an engine is, anyway?

BTW.....how was school today? Any girls make any advances towards you? Eh, probably not....they most likely got tired of you squealing and running away.

Well considering it's the job of the guy to be making advances, thankfully no woman has made any advances towards me. As for third gear, I can't use third gear because I lose speed. You aren't lugging an engine if you can't maintain speed and the engine isn't making horrible sounds. Also I don't like your guys' definition of "lugging" because that implies that anytime you run the engine at 100% load, you are lugging it and I feel that is bullshit. Now 100-105% load on a carbureted engine, well that would probably be lugging it but I wouldn't know because I've never owned a carbureted vehicle.

Oh and btw guys, if lugging an engine is soo bad and cause premature wear, can somebody explain to me how much will it diminish the lifespan of an engine? Like instead of X number of miles, you only get Y.

 

[fleabag]

Wow. Just... Wow.

Whether or not an engine is lugging has nothing whatsoever to do with fuel injection. Nothing. At all. Furthermore, it's absolutely possible to lug an engine without hearing any odd noises from the engine.

Yeah, then that's not lugging now is it? You're basically saying that you're "lugging" your engine if you load it up and I'm calling bullshit on that.

Lugging an engine occurs when one selects a gear that is too high for the given conditions. For example, selecting 5th gear at 25 mph in a car with a small 4-cylinder engine would be virtually guaranteed to cause lugging even at steady speeds on flat roads; if the driver attempted to accelerate, the lugging would be even worse. If one attempted such scenarios, the car would bog down and potentially buck or lurch slightly. Extreme lugging can cause pinging/knocking or even piston slap, but these last only occur in instances where the driver is so incredibly stupid that he doesn't notice the obvious early warnings of bogging, bucking, or lurching.

You can't lug an FI engine usually because there are things the computer does in order to prevent the very things you are describing. Why not just come out and instead of saying "don't lug an engine"(because you damn well know you can't do that to an FI vehicle unless something is wrong or too low of an octane) and just say "don't run your engine at high load". That way we can ignore you and continue on with other things. There is a BIG difference between lugging an engine and "loading it up". Loading it up meaning running it at a high load and you're advocating NOT doing that..

How about this:
Can you lug a fuel injected engine that is paired up with an automatic transmission? Too vague? Can you lug an FI engine that is paired up with a modern automatic transmission?(on a vehicle that is less than 5 years old)

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Well considering it's the job of the guy to be making advances, thankfully no woman has made any advances towards me. As for third gear, I can't use third gear because I lose speed. You aren't lugging an engine if you can't maintain speed and the engine isn't making horrible sounds. Also I don't like your guys' definition of "lugging" because that implies that anytime you run the engine at 100% load, you are lugging it and I feel that is bullshit. Now 100-105% load on a carbureted engine, well that would probably be lugging it but I wouldn't know because I've never owned a carbureted vehicle.

Oh and btw guys, if lugging an engine is soo bad and cause premature wear, can somebody explain to me how much will it diminish the lifespan of an engine? Like instead of X number of miles, you only get Y.

You seriously can't be more than like 16, or have never gone to a social event with socially active people.....

 

[Meghan54]

Like I said, you have no idea what lugging an engine is or what you're talking about....as usual.

ps.....you can lug a fuel injected engine. The fuel delivery system makes no difference at all.

 

[fleabag]

You seriously can't be more than like 16, or have never gone to a social event with socially active people.....

Women don't usually make ADVANCES towards men.. No sane woman is going to walk up to a man and ask if he will fuck her, that'd be ridiculous. Oh and to preempt your counter argument, I don't consider a woman walking up to a man and making conversation as "making advances". But either way, the latter is still generally considered to be uncommon opposed to the man "making advances".

Like I said, you have no idea what lugging an engine is or what you're talking about....as usual.

ps.....you can lug a fuel injected engine. The fuel delivery system makes no difference at all.

Sure it does, when the computer has control over functions such as being able to retard timing of various things. The computer can even do fuel cut if need be.