Creative X-FI - Real-time DD ecoding?

[hotel77]

So after readng the toms hardware review of the X-FI (which sounded more like a sales pitch imo) it seems as if a big portion of the X-FI is geared towards upsampling almost everything to a 5.1-7.1 output.

The biggest problem with the previous SB cards was that they don't output an encoded signal through the optical/coax...they only send a stereo signal. Did they make the same mistake again?

Since the Nforce Soundstorm output an encoded DD signal in 5.1 sound close to 3 years ago...will the X-FI do this or not? I haven't heard a definitive "Yes" or "No" so i'm assuming since this hasn't been mentioned, that the feature is still not there.

If it was possible to output in an encoded DD 5.1 signal for a receiver to decode, wouldn't this be one of the major selling points?

 

[Slick5150]

No, nothing I have read has indicated it has DD Live.

 

[masterasher]

From what I've heard, the reason they don't include DD Live is because Creative wants this product to focus on quality. Converting an upsampled and quality filtered sound to a lossy and hence reduced-quality format would be counter intuitive to their marketing line. However, being that there will be a lossless DTS format in the future (is there one now?), and possibly a lossless DD format also coming, this may be a feature on future hardware when fidelity won't be an issue anymore with digital encoding.

/my first post

 

[DaveSimmons]

Some competitors offer Dolby Live encoding now, but Creative does not.

 

[hotel77]

hahaha, so the ability to output an upsampled 5.1 digital signal to your nice amplifier which decods the signal and outputs to your 5.1 home theater would NOT be focusing on quality. Instead only being able to send a pretty lame stereo-only digital signal to your amp, is focusing on quality?

wtf?

 

[Matt2]

Creative sucks

 

[SonicIce]

wheres yoyohowsdajello

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: hotel77
hahaha, so the ability to output an upsampled 5.1 digital signal to your nice amplifier which decods the signal and outputs to your 5.1 home theater would NOT be focusing on quality. Instead only being able to send a pretty lame stereo-only digital signal to your amp, is focusing on quality?
wtf?

It's not when the quality of your 5.1-7.1 signal converted to analog using a top-notch DAC and sent over 3 analog cables easily matches or exceeds the quality offered by compressing the digital audio using a pretty old, medium bitrate lossy compression scheme, a feature which won't be used by the vast majority of your intended market.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Creative is leaving the Dolby Live feature out to help you.

Sure you have a digital cable and receiver port ready to go, but buying a bunch of analog cables will improve the sound.

Making you hear your games in just stereo instead of 5.1 is a helpful nudge to get you to switch to uncompressed analog sound, and to buy a better receiver if you don't have a spare analog 5.1 input on your current one.

The new receiver will also improve your sound, so it's win-win all around.

 

[Cerb]

DaveSimmons, I demand you replace my Sarcasmometer. It specifically stated it had dry humor and sardonism protection circuits built in, but now there's smoke and a funny smell coming from it! :thumbsup:

 

[ArneBjarne]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: hotel77
hahaha, so the ability to output an upsampled 5.1 digital signal to your nice amplifier which decods the signal and outputs to your 5.1 home theater would NOT be focusing on quality. Instead only being able to send a pretty lame stereo-only digital signal to your amp, is focusing on quality?
wtf?

It's not when the quality of your 5.1-7.1 signal converted to analog using a top-notch DAC and sent over 3 analog cables easily matches or exceeds the quality offered by compressing the digital audio using a pretty old, medium bitrate lossy compression scheme, a feature which won't be used by the vast majority of your intended market.

I would much rather have DD/DTS digital out than 6x analogue, but that aside why not put HDMI out on the card if you are so worried about compression?

Furthermore, they apparently think it is a wonderful idea to encode in dts AFTER you have DA converted the signal on your soundcard only to AD converted it right after on their external encoder. Now that is stupid, a completely unnecessary DA-AD conversion :roll:

I mean they could even still cash in on both products. Put HDMI-out on the soundcard, which can transfer 8 uncompressed channels digitally to new home theater amplifiers. Then put a HDMI-in on the external dts-encoder. Then you can combine those two if you need dts-encoding for an older amp that does not support HDMI.

How you can call it a high end product and not support any form of digital multi-channel is beyond me.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: SonicIce
wheres yoyohowsdajello

Sorry, I was at work.

5:30am to 4:00pm

The HDA X-Mystique and Turtlebeach Montego are the two cards that I know of that offer DDL right now.

I'm using the X-Mystique hooked up to my Pioneer 1014 then Onix Rocket Ultra HT and SVS PB10. It's working very well for me.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: SonicIce
wheres yoyohowsdajello

Sorry, I was at work.

5:30am to 4:00pm

The HDA X-Mystique and Turtlebeach Montego are the two cards that I know of that offer DDL right now.

I'm using the X-Mystique hooked up to my Pioneer 1014 then Onix Rocket Ultra HT and SVS PB10. It's working very well for me.

I envy you...I really do.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: SonicIce
wheres yoyohowsdajello

Sorry, I was at work.

5:30am to 4:00pm

The HDA X-Mystique and Turtlebeach Montego are the two cards that I know of that offer DDL right now.

I'm using the X-Mystique hooked up to my Pioneer 1014 then Onix Rocket Ultra HT and SVS PB10. It's working very well for me.

I envy you...I really do.

Because of my work schedule?

 

[Woodchuck2000]

Originally posted by: ArneBjarne
I would much rather have DD/DTS digital out than 6x analogue, but that aside why not put HDMI out on the card if you are so worried about compression?

Furthermore, they apparently think it is a wonderful idea to encode in dts AFTER you have DA converted the signal on your soundcard only to AD converted it right after on their external encoder. Now that is stupid, a completely unnecessary DA-AD conversion :roll:

I mean they could even still cash in on both products. Put HDMI-out on the soundcard, which can transfer 8 uncompressed channels digitally to new home theater amplifiers. Then put a HDMI-in on the external dts-encoder. Then you can combine those two if you need dts-encoding for an older amp that does not support HDMI.

How you can call it a high end product and not support any form of digital multi-channel is beyond me.

Firstly, I definitely agree that the external DTS encoder is a complete waste of space. Pointless. Product.

That out the way, why would you prefer DD/DTS to 6-8xAnalogue? The latter will give you much better sound as you havn't got lossy conversion at both ends...

8 channel uncompressed via HDMI would be a good plan. Maybe in the next version
That said, HDMI is still a niche technology and most people who have HDMI enabled receivers wouldn't want a nasty little PC cluttering up their expensive setups.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Woodchuck2000

Originally posted by: ArneBjarne
I would much rather have DD/DTS digital out than 6x analogue, but that aside why not put HDMI out on the card if you are so worried about compression?

Furthermore, they apparently think it is a wonderful idea to encode in dts AFTER you have DA converted the signal on your soundcard only to AD converted it right after on their external encoder. Now that is stupid, a completely unnecessary DA-AD conversion :roll:

I mean they could even still cash in on both products. Put HDMI-out on the soundcard, which can transfer 8 uncompressed channels digitally to new home theater amplifiers. Then put a HDMI-in on the external dts-encoder. Then you can combine those two if you need dts-encoding for an older amp that does not support HDMI.

How you can call it a high end product and not support any form of digital multi-channel is beyond me.

Firstly, I definitely agree that the external DTS encoder is a complete waste of space. Pointless. Product.

That out the way, why would you prefer DD/DTS to 6-8xAnalogue? The latter will give you much better sound as you havn't got lossy conversion at both ends...

8 channel uncompressed via HDMI would be a good plan. Maybe in the next version
That said, HDMI is still a niche technology and most people who have HDMI enabled receivers wouldn't want a nasty little PC cluttering up their expensive setups.

Because its a bitch to switch between.

I use analog for games and such and digital for any movies and music. For the analog connection I have to change each speakers levels for it to be balanced, then when going back to the digital connection I have to change them back or else they will be messed up again.

Plus to get analog cables to my receiver I have minijack->female RCA connectors, connected to two component video cables(12 feet) running into the 5.1 inputs on my receiver(HK 435). If thats not a pain, and a lot of money...I don't know what is

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: rleemhui

Because its a bitch to switch between.

I use analog for games and such and digital for any movies and music. For the analog connection I have to change each speakers levels for it to be balanced, then when going back to the digital connection I have to change them back or else they will be messed up again.

Plus to get analog cables to my receiver I have minijack->female RCA connectors, connected to two component video cables(12 feet) running into the 5.1 inputs on my receiver(HK 435). If thats not a pain, and a lot of money...I don't know what is

One would expect PC speaker levels could remain neutral, especially with a HT system. Any adjustment could then be done on the receiver and and be ideal for any source. Coaxial cable is dirt cheap but yeah, one is cheaper than six... but then standard stranded-wire analog cables are even cheaper if you wanted to save a few rupees.

 

[JDCentral]

Can anybody say... SoundStorm?

 

[hellokeith]

Solution ID # 3815

Dolby Digital Interactive Content Encoder (DICE)

Computer games written with support for 3D audio do not require a Dolby Digital Interactive Content Encoder (DICE) to output multichannel sound, with no exceptions. Sound devices that support the real time encoder technology from Dolby will simply receive the multichannel wave file output and encode it in real time to a somewhat modified Dolby Digital bitstream. Creative does not support the Dolby Digital Interactive Content Encoder on any of its sound cards.

The only difference between a Sound Blaster card and an audio card that has a real time encoder, is that you can make a one-wire, digital connection from your audio card to your home theater receiver and enjoy discrete multichannel sound from the game. However there will be a continuous, slight delay, known as "latency", as the encoder is creating and transmitting the bitstream, and of course the compression scheme being used is "lossy" (i.e. not bit-accurate).

If you want to enjoy 3D audio in 3D enabled PC games in multichannel surround sound with a Sound Blaster card, it is recommended that you connect the analog outputs of the sound card directly to the analog inputs of the receiver. This will require 3 cables for 5.1 surround sound, one for front right and left, one for rear left and right, and another one for front center and subwoofer. Though it requires more cables than a real time encoder system, it will not have any latency issues. When connecting PC audio to a home theater receiver, Creative's latest sound cards such as Sound Blaster Audigy, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 are likely to provide higher quality audio than any Dolby Digital real time encode system available for the PC today.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Solution ID # 3815
. . .Creative's latest sound cards such as Sound Blaster Audigy, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 are likely to provide higher quality audio than any Dolby Digital real time encode system available for the PC today.

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Creative is leaving the Dolby Live feature out to help you.

Sure you have a digital cable and receiver port ready to go, but buying a bunch of analog cables will improve the sound.

Making you hear your games in just stereo instead of 5.1 is a helpful nudge to get you to switch to uncompressed analog sound, and to buy a better receiver if you don't have a spare analog 5.1 input on your current one.

The new receiver will also improve your sound, so it's win-win all around.

Like I said

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: rleemhui

Because its a bitch to switch between.

I use analog for games and such and digital for any movies and music. For the analog connection I have to change each speakers levels for it to be balanced, then when going back to the digital connection I have to change them back or else they will be messed up again.

Plus to get analog cables to my receiver I have minijack->female RCA connectors, connected to two component video cables(12 feet) running into the 5.1 inputs on my receiver(HK 435). If thats not a pain, and a lot of money...I don't know what is

One would expect PC speaker levels could remain neutral, especially with a HT system. Any adjustment could then be done on the receiver and and be ideal for any source. Coaxial cable is dirt cheap but yeah, one is cheaper than six... but then standard stranded-wire analog cables are even cheaper if you wanted to save a few rupees.

Analog inputs are quite different that a digital connection. Bass management on the 5.1 inputs on a receiver often results in results that aren't satisfactory without changing the levels on the computer. Problem is, I can adjust channels on my receiver, but no where near the levels I would need to reduce some speakers to. Its just a faults with 5.1 inputs, they are never easy to manage IMO.

Like I said, it works, just you can tell that computer sound cards like this weren't really made to connect to a HT system

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: JDCentral
Can anybody say... SoundStorm?

SchloundSchlorm. SizoundStizorm. MeowndMeowrm.

I cannot.

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: rleemhuiAnalog inputs are quite different that a digital connection. Bass management on the 5.1 inputs on a receiver often results in results that aren't satisfactory without changing the levels on the computer. Problem is, I can adjust channels on my receiver, but no where near the levels I would need to reduce some speakers to. Its just a faults with 5.1 inputs, they are never easy to manage IMO.

Like I said, it works, just you can tell that computer sound cards like this weren't really made to connect to a HT system

The X-FI has a selectable boost for the bass (.1), specifically for the purpose of being more friendly to receivers.