creative meets competition with razor sound

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Operandi
On board HD-audio is the final nail in the coffin of consumer level sound cards.

Yes!! I would have to agree!!

the onboard sound on even my ancient and antiquated asus p4p800 is quite good.

It does indeed rival or even eclipse the lower end sound cards!!

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Operandi
On board HD-audio is the final nail in the coffin of consumer level sound cards.

Yes!! I would have to agree!!

the onboard sound on even my ancient and antiquated asus p4p800 is quite good.

It does indeed rival or even eclipse the lower end sound cards!!

I just recently sold that board. I miss it. Never tried the onboard audio. Actually, I have never tried on-board audio on any of my mobos. I should give it a try. Always wondered what would happen if I enabled on-board audio with a sound card already installed.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: Oyeve

Originally posted by: Varun
[That is a sad fact...

It is Creative's fault. Aureal had A3D which was far better than EAX, but Creative had the brand name. Aureal was going under so Creative bought them, and then killed A3D completely.

Also, EAX is not an open standard forcing people to only purchase Creative cards.

The new Creative sound cards seem pretty good but Creative built a lot of junk for a long time. I am glad for two things:

1)Another company is stepping into the Sound Card arena with a gaming card
2)Vista is going to eliminate EAX by the sounds of it making the playing field open to all.

Creative was not the first sound card company. Many were around before CL. Adlib, Disney had an external sound thingy, CL just made better cards back then. Turtle beach made great cards but CL made better ones (subjective, I am by no means a CL fan-boy! In fact I am not too fond of my X-fi, the ZS2 was my fave) But we do need more competition in the sound card market.[/quote]

I'm not sure whether Creative or Adlib was first, but Creative was right in there at the beginning. Prior to my first SB I ran a Roland CM-32L.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Oyeve
I just recently sold that board. I miss it. Never tried the onboard audio. Actually, I have never tried on-board audio on any of my mobos. I should give it a try. Always wondered what would happen if I enabled on-board audio with a sound card already installed.

Should work fine. I do it on several rigs. I use the on-board with a headset for Skype and then the PCI card for gaming and music. Never had any problems using both.

 

[Varun]

Originally posted by: Howard

How Aureal went under is pretty damn interesting, wouldn't you say?

How so? They obviously made some management mistakes and I can't blame Creative for that. Even companies with good products won't make it if customers don't know they need the product.

When Creative bought Aureal I thought that they wanted to use A3D since it was just so much better than EAX. Obviously I was wrong since it was never seen again...

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Varun

2)Vista is going to eliminate EAX by the sounds of it making the playing field open to all.

Vista isn't going to help anyone. It turns the entire audio system in to a black box that breaks EAX and all hardware audio acceleration(except OpenAL), and the black box itself doesn't have nearly the feature set of the cards it replaces or the ability to be expanded.

PS Varun, I think Howard is alluding to how Creative sued Aureal in to the ground even though it was a doomed case from the start

 

[fire400]

Originally posted by: Varun

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Operandi

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Still...most of the games I play support EAX HD and no soundcard outside of a Creative brand can playback this

That is a sad fact...

You can thank Creative for that

Doesn't bother me... X-FI is perfectly fine for most people and gamers. If you need more you move up to a pro audio solution.

Its a shame so many consumers have a similar mindset to you. Just because its good enough for you doesn't mean you shouldn't want more for your money. Not only that but you're basically saying that you are happy with pretty much a monopoly (yes I know its not really and Creative will never even be accused of such), in a market (computer hardware/software) where competition is the biggest factor driving advancements.

Again i fail to see why it matters. It's not Creative's fault nobody else tried and they came up with EAX and got it into games and now it's a standard.

It is Creative's fault. Aureal had A3D which was far better than EAX, but Creative had the brand name. Aureal was going under so Creative bought them, and then killed A3D completely.

Also, EAX is not an open standard forcing people to only purchase Creative cards.

The new Creative sound cards seem pretty good but Creative built a lot of junk for a long time. I am glad for two things:

1)Another company is stepping into the Sound Card arena with a gaming card
2)Vista is going to eliminate EAX by the sounds of it making the playing field open to all.

1. EAX has been an open standard for over a decade. Even integrated audio is able to support EAX features on many of today's motherboards, onboard audio chipsets like the nForce series or Realtek based sound processor engines. It just happens that the creator is perhaps the best at what is has created, Creative obviously.

2. Creative will always have the upper hand on how users feel like keeping their Vista, plain and simple, or strectching to the far limits of creativity. it's completely programable, software controls the way hardware is run, so I don't see limits to Vista with EAX.
"August 1999
Creative's Environmental Audio Technology is now the de facto industry standard for immersive 3D gaming. Over 50 leading game titles were shipped with support for Creative's Environmental Audio Technology. Microsoft's licensing of EAX technology and its plans to incorporate effects into a future version of DirectX, further established Environmental Audio technology as the de facto standard for 3D game development."
http://www.creative.com/corporate/milestones/welcome.asp?nav=1
It's already hit it's way very hard into DirectX 9, why would Microsoft hold it back on Vista?

http://developer.creative.com/
This link alone, extends the future of Creative technology on Vista.

3. Creative did not build junk for a long time. The Audigy 2 ZS is one of their best cards that came out, it has won so many awards, even at the time of its release to the day X-fi hit stores, almost no company could compete with the advanced technology onboard the ZS. Their Soundblaster series has been sold all over the world, outsold almost every daugher add-on card that involved sound technology. The X-fi secures Creative's will to stay on top, and ahead of the gang.

4. It's not a fault for being the best, and staying the best. It's an achievement. Ofcourse others have tried to master the soundcard market, you clearly see that in integrated audio and what other companies are trying to release, like C-Media and SoundMax for example.

5. Aureal? It was dead end for them, anyway. Better or not, the technology of Aureal's engines flow through the X-fi from research and development, you won't hear about it ofcourse, because it's intelligent marketting to what Creative decides to release on it's whitepapers and press.

"The legal battle with Aureal over Creative's infringement of their high-quality 3D audio patents (5,596,644 and 5,802,180). Creative lost this battle, but the legal fees ended up putting Aureal in a poor financial position. Creative later purchased Aureal and added the A3D engine to their already considerable list of gaming technology."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Technology

6. Competition. Stiff, but Creative will always have the upperhand. Their marketting is stronger than any other soundcard company existant, worldwide especially. Although M-Audio and Chaintech are developers in the hardcore soundcard arena, they face a challenge to how much technology they need to borrow and implement from Creative. You know EAX is a standard many games will use, and the developers that need to implement it will always think of the name, Creative.

---

well I looked at the title, I couldn't believe someone dug out this old thread, so I decided to post anyway, lol~ reminds me of the physics engine Ageia is trying to perfect. funny, 'cuz ATI and nVidia are also looking into this one. businesses that try to compete with the elites are the ones that might get kicked in the tail so hard, they could go bankrupt.

 

[sandorski]

Got sick of CL's lousy drivers and switched to Onboard 3 months ago from an Audigy Gamer. Don't miss the card at all and likely willnever buy a soundcard again.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Oyeve

Originally posted by: Varun
[That is a sad fact...

It is Creative's fault. Aureal had A3D which was far better than EAX, but Creative had the brand name. Aureal was going under so Creative bought them, and then killed A3D completely.

Also, EAX is not an open standard forcing people to only purchase Creative cards.

The new Creative sound cards seem pretty good but Creative built a lot of junk for a long time. I am glad for two things:

1)Another company is stepping into the Sound Card arena with a gaming card
2)Vista is going to eliminate EAX by the sounds of it making the playing field open to all.

Creative was not the first sound card company. Many were around before CL. Adlib, Disney had an external sound thingy, CL just made better cards back then. Turtle beach made great cards but CL made better ones (subjective, I am by no means a CL fan-boy! In fact I am not too fond of my X-fi, the ZS2 was my fave) But we do need more competition in the sound card market.[/quote]

You mention old audio card companies without mentioning Gravis? Heresy!

 

[ForumMaster]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
::laughs at all the made up Razor terms for their "technology"::

We have been hearing about this for many months now and it has been discussed prior to this.

yeah i was thinking the same thing. this was posted numerous times already and was supposed to be out months ago.

 

[pkme2]

IMO, competition is always a nice thing especially for the consumer. Any additional improvement in Hi-Fi will certainly have an effect on pricing, don't you think. Audio has always been something I could appreciate.

Good competition is always good for the masses.

 

[Varun]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Varun

2)Vista is going to eliminate EAX by the sounds of it making the playing field open to all.

Vista isn't going to help anyone. It turns the entire audio system in to a black box that breaks EAX and all hardware audio acceleration(except OpenAL), and the black box itself doesn't have nearly the feature set of the cards it replaces or the ability to be expanded.

PS Varun, I think Howard is alluding to how Creative sued Aureal in to the ground even though it was a doomed case from the start

Thanks I wasn't sure which part of their demise he was referencing but that makes sense.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Varun

2)Vista is going to eliminate EAX by the sounds of it making the playing field open to all.

Vista isn't going to help anyone. It turns the entire audio system in to a black box that breaks EAX and all hardware audio acceleration(except OpenAL), and the black box itself doesn't have nearly the feature set of the cards it replaces or the ability to be expanded.

I disagree, standardizing an open source audio engine is the best thing Microsoft could have done. Creative's monopoly has been hindering progress for far too long. Once good open source environmental processes are established, bye bye EAX.

 

[Mem]

I disagree, standardizing an open source audio engine is the best thing Microsoft could have done. Creative's monopoly has been hindering progress for far too long. Once good open source environmental processes are established, bye bye EAX.

I agree we need an open level playing field.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Varun

2)Vista is going to eliminate EAX by the sounds of it making the playing field open to all.

Vista isn't going to help anyone. It turns the entire audio system in to a black box that breaks EAX and all hardware audio acceleration(except OpenAL), and the black box itself doesn't have nearly the feature set of the cards it replaces or the ability to be expanded.

I disagree, standardizing an open source audio engine is the best thing Microsoft could have done. Creative's monopoly has been hindering progress for far too long. Once good open source environmental processes are established, bye bye EAX.

Ya, but this isn't it. Everything I've read on the Vista audio stack pretty much says the same thing, that Vista's moving everything except the D/A conversion to the operating system as a self-contained stack, a black box. All 3D sound processing not using OpenAL to bypass Vista is done by the OS with no way to expand it via hardware/software(other than MS changing something). So not only will there be the CPU hit from all that audio processing being in software, but the quality of 3D positional audio is limited to however good MS's implementation is. Obviously, it also breaks EAX in all current games using DS3D, I don't even know if MS has an EAX replacement for Vista.

Besides, the fundamental problem is not a "Creative has a de-facto standard in EAX" issue, it's a "Creative owns enough audio patents to fill a warehouse" problem. You can't invent something like EAX without infringing.

 

[ArneBjarne]

Originally posted by: fire400
1. EAX has been an open standard for over a decade. Even integrated audio is able to support EAX features on many of today's motherboards, onboard audio chipsets like the nForce series or Realtek based sound processor engines. It just happens that the creator is perhaps the best at what is has created, Creative obviously.

EAX1+2 yes, anything above no. And I would take SoundStorm over anything Creative has produced so far.

 

[MechaSheeba]

In the consumer market sound is sound. Game audio is encoded in low/medium bitrates anyways, my ears don't hear enough of a difference to justify the purchase of 90% of the cards out there. If it weren't for EAX I wouldn't even own a soundcard, I'd use onboard. My $15 Audigy 1 is gonna last me until a new standard comes around.

 

[kef7]

any news/reviews?