"Creation"

[Gonad the Barbarian]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...religious-America.html

Creation, starring Paul Bettany, details Darwin's "struggle between faith and reason" as he wrote On The Origin of Species. It depicts him as a man who loses faith in God following the death of his beloved 10-year-old daughter, Annie.

The film was chosen to open the Toronto Film Festival and has its British premiere on Sunday. It has been sold in almost every territory around the world, from Australia to Scandinavia.

However, US distributors have resolutely passed on a film which will prove hugely divisive in a country where, according to a Gallup poll conducted in February, only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

Movieguide.org, an influential site which reviews films from a Christian perspective, described Darwin as the father of eugenics and denounced him as "a racist, a bigot and an 1800s naturalist whose legacy is mass murder". His "half-baked theory" directly influenced Adolf Hitler and led to "atrocities, crimes against humanity, cloning and genetic engineering", the site stated.

The film has sparked fierce debate on US Christian websites, with a typical comment dismissing evolution as "a silly theory with a serious lack of evidence to support it despite over a century of trying".

Jeremy Thomas, the Oscar-winning producer of Creation, said he was astonished that such attitudes exist 150 years after On The Origin of Species was published.

"That's what we're up against. In 2009. It's amazing," he said.

"The film has no distributor in America. It has got a deal everywhere else in the world but in the US, and it's because of what the film is about. People have been saying this is the best film they've seen all year, yet nobody in the US has picked it up.

"It is unbelievable to us that this is still a really hot potato in America. There's still a great belief that He made the world in six days. It's quite difficult for we in the UK to imagine religion in America. We live in a country which is no longer so religious. But in the US, outside of New York and LA, religion rules.

"Charles Darwin is, I suppose, the hero of the film. But we tried to make the film in a very even-handed way. Darwin wasn't saying 'kill all religion', he never said such a thing, but he is a totem for people."

Creation was developed by BBC Films and the UK Film Council, and stars Bettany's real-life wife Jennifer Connelly as Darwin's deeply religious wife, Emma. It is based on the book, Annie's Box, by Darwin's great-great-grandson, Randal Keynes, and portrays the naturalist as a family man tormented by the death in 1851 of Annie, his favourite child. She is played in the film by 10-year-old newcomer Martha West, the daughter of The Wire star Dominic West.

Early reviews have raved about the film. The Hollywood Reporter said: "It would be a great shame if those with religious convictions spurned the film out of hand as they will find it even-handed and wise."

Mr Thomas, whose previous films include The Last Emperor and Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence, said he hoped the reviews would help to secure a distributor. In the UK, special screenings have been set up for Christian groups.

Evilution be the debil's work. Jennifer Connelly's not gonna indoctrunate my country! Yeehaw, USA #1!!!

 

[Kadarin]

With all the rampant stupidity in this country, it's a wonder the US is still even a world power.

 

[fskimospy]

only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

epic /facepalm

 

[LunarRay]

The Butler Act, a Tennessee law made it illegal to teach anything but divine creation in any state funded educational facility. That Act set up the Scopes trial in '25 (I think) - W.J. Bryan versus Spencer Tracy... er... C. Darrow.

There is some mis-understanding about evolution and what is accepted or rejected at least by the Catholic Church which today seems to be in concert with science. I don't think they, however, accept: God created Ape and Ape begot Moonbeam who Begot human or like that.

When Darwin was bobbing about on Beagle I think we in the US were almost universal in the Creation doctrine. Today, I think we're moving toward accepting evolution except for human creation. They'll need the 'Missing Link' to alter that to any extent, I think.

 

[Albatross]

big deal!
it seems to me Americans appreciate freedom,so in USA people are free to be mind numbingly stupid;but the people who matter are ,in any country,a tiny minority.in this respect,USA has a diamond of solid ,raw intelligence gathered from across the world.
The narrow understanding of the Bible in fundamentalist circles doesnt help either,for example The Catholic Curch doesnt see any contradiction between evolution and the existence of the christian God.
american christianity is a strange animal, i`ll wait anxiously for the next great american public debate on religious matters:was the Bible written in english or not????

 

[bamacre]

I've never understood the battle between evolution and creationism. Just another unnecessary war really. One is the scientific study on the changing of life, the other a religious belief dealing with the creation of life. Neither contradicts the other, yet the war carries on. And the biggest problem is this is being fought on the political battlefield, which should be empty of both side's soldiers.

 

[Lemon law]

LunarRay says, " When Darwin was bobbing about on Beagle I think we in the US were almost universal in the Creation doctrine. Today, I think we're moving toward accepting evolution except for human creation. They'll need the 'Missing Link' to alter that to any extent, I think."

We may not be there at every steps of the missing links in human ancestry from the fossil record, but enough is already there to make it almost scientifically certain. And the work is still ongoing with new finds filling more and more gaps, its already long past deniable.

But the question still unanswered is, exactly how and when did humans made that huge leap in "intelligence" while other similar species did not.
As it is, we can trace the mitochondrial dna of all humans to one common mother some 74,000 years in the past.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

epic /facepalm

Man, that's a lot of willful ignorance.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I've never understood the battle between evolution and creationism. Just another unnecessary war really.

lmao.

 

[MovingTarget]

As someone who supports the theory of evolution, I would have no desire to see this film. Perhaps there are other reasons that no American distributor has signed up for the film - they know our tastes in film better. There are a LOT of foreign films which are downright excellent that never reach US shores. I'm not saying that this isn't a great film, just that attributing this solely to the anti-evolution crowd is incomplete.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
With all the rampant stupidity in this country, it's a wonder the US is still even a world power.

Well then it's no wonder that our stats as a world power is rapidly diminishing.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: bamacre

I've never understood the battle between evolution and creationism. Just another unnecessary war really. One is the scientific study on the changing of life, the other a religious belief dealing with the creation of life. Neither contradicts the other, yet the war carries on. And the biggest problem is this is being fought on the political battlefield, which should be empty of both side's soldiers.

Actually, evolution says nothing about the origins of life, itself. Evolution studies the development and changes in lifeforms over time.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: bamacre

I've never understood the battle between evolution and creationism. Just another unnecessary war really. One is the scientific study on the changing of life, the other a religious belief dealing with the creation of life. Neither contradicts the other, yet the war carries on. And the biggest problem is this is being fought on the political battlefield, which should be empty of both side's soldiers.

Actually, evolution says nothing about the origins of life, itself. Evolution studies the development and changes in lifeforms over time.

I hear an echo.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
LunarRay says, " When Darwin was bobbing about on Beagle I think we in the US were almost universal in the Creation doctrine. Today, I think we're moving toward accepting evolution except for human creation. They'll need the 'Missing Link' to alter that to any extent, I think."

We may not be there at every steps of the missing links in human ancestry from the fossil record, but enough is already there to make it almost scientifically certain. And the work is still ongoing with new finds filling more and more gaps, its already long past deniable.

But the question still unanswered is, exactly how and when did humans made that huge leap in "intelligence" while other similar species did not.
As it is, we can trace the mitochondrial dna of all humans to one common mother some 74,000 years in the past.

My guess would be that is all humans except Africans.

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

epic /facepalm

I wouldn't say I believe in the theory of evolution....I'd say I believe the majority of evidence supports the theory of evolution, and thus I support the theory of evolution.

Just being picky...

There is no giant leap in evolution, it's all baby steps.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: bamacre

I've never understood the battle between evolution and creationism. Just another unnecessary war really. One is the scientific study on the changing of life, the other a religious belief dealing with the creation of life. Neither contradicts the other, yet the war carries on. And the biggest problem is this is being fought on the political battlefield, which should be empty of both side's soldiers.

Actually, evolution says nothing about the origins of life, itself. Evolution studies the development and changes in lifeforms over time.

I hear an echo.

Echo... echo... echo... I was just echoing and agreeing.

Are we side tracking into a discussion of echology?

... only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

Proving only that evolution works far too slowly and leaves a lot of stupidity in its wake.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
The Butler Act, a Tennessee law made it illegal to teach anything but divine creation in any state funded educational facility. That Act set up the Scopes trial in '25 (I think) - W.J. Bryan versus Spencer Tracy... er... C. Darrow.

There is some mis-understanding about evolution and what is accepted or rejected at least by the Catholic Church which today seems to be in concert with science. I don't think they, however, accept: God created Ape and Ape begot Moonbeam who Begot human or like that.

When Darwin was bobbing about on Beagle I think we in the US were almost universal in the Creation doctrine. Today, I think we're moving toward accepting evolution except for human creation. They'll need the 'Missing Link' to alter that to any extent, I think.

LunarRay, you ARE an ape, just like every other human, it's the first part of Homo Sapiens Sapiens, it means ape.

And there is no "missing link" there never has been, it's just a made up term for a transitional that was expected but has never been found, the predictions derived from the ToE aren't always so precise that you can rely on every notion of them.

That said, evolution is a fact, it can be proven even to the most staunch opposer of it and it can be done in any biological laboratory near you.

If it wasn't true, well don't worry about HIV or the Swine flu, those viruses do not exist, they cannot exist without evolution.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: bamacre

I've never understood the battle between evolution and creationism. Just another unnecessary war really. One is the scientific study on the changing of life, the other a religious belief dealing with the creation of life. Neither contradicts the other, yet the war carries on. And the biggest problem is this is being fought on the political battlefield, which should be empty of both side's soldiers.

Actually, evolution says nothing about the origins of life, itself. Evolution studies the development and changes in lifeforms over time.

I hear an echo.

Echo... echo... echo... I was just echoing and agreeing.

Are we side tracking into a discussion of echology?

... only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

Proving only that evolution works far too slowly and leaves a lot of stupidity in its wake.

There is no such thing as an echo, it's God throwing your words in your face!

If you don't believe that you'll burn in hell!

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I've never understood the battle between evolution and creationism. Just another unnecessary war really. One is the scientific study on the changing of life, the other a religious belief dealing with the creation of life. Neither contradicts the other, yet the war carries on. And the biggest problem is this is being fought on the political battlefield, which should be empty of both side's soldiers.

I see evolution as being able to describe both.

The Universe goes from a sea of energy, condenses into quarks and then atoms. Atoms arrange into molecules, gravity draws a lumpy sea together into reasonably discrete spheres, certain molecules on the smaller spheres happen to have the means by which to react with other molecules and replicate themselves. Right there, once replicating molecules have developed, they are able to increase in complexity, thanks to abundant energy sources, both solar and chemical, and given enough time, you get bacteria, cells, multicellular life forms, and larger life forms which believe themselves to be the divine creations of some completely undetectable deity with severely obsessive tendencies, and incredibly fragile ego, and mood swings.

I'd have to go, once again, with George Carlin, and it's paraphrased a bit here - if we're the best that this God has come up with, he's got some pretty pathetic standards, and his abilities are sorely lacking for something which supposedly has so very much power and intelligence.

 

[Moonbeam]

Faith is the belief in something one can't prove but I guess a lot of religions aren't happy just to rely on that. They want, also, to pretend they have proof of their truth and for some that means the truth of the Bible. They are right because it says so in the Bible and the Bible is the word of God. Unfortunately, the Bible is not literally factual so these folk are screwed when they deal with folk who know scientific facts. They look like idiots and they kind of are, because they don't believe out of simple faith even though they are supposed to.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: bamacre
I've never understood the battle between evolution and creationism. Just another unnecessary war really. One is the scientific study on the changing of life, the other a religious belief dealing with the creation of life. Neither contradicts the other, yet the war carries on. And the biggest problem is this is being fought on the political battlefield, which should be empty of both side's soldiers.

I see evolution as being able to describe both.

Well, if you want to hypothesise that then fine, but it's not part of the ToE that non-living matter can evolve into living matter and i think you should make it very clear that it's your own opinion without any basis in the ToE because it will provide ammo for anyone wanting to claim that "SOME" people claim that the ToE explains the origin of life if you do not.

I agree with you completely except that i would not call it evolution for the very reason that the scientific theory of evolution does not deal with the origins.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Faith is the belief in something one can't prove but I guess a lot of religions aren't happy just to rely on that. They want, also, to pretend they have proof of their truth and for some that means the truth of the Bible. They are right because it says so in the Bible and the Bible is the word of God. Unfortunately, the Bible is not literally factual so these folk are screwed when they deal with folk who know scientific facts. They look like idiots and they kind of are, because they don't believe out of simple faith even though they are supposed to.

EXACTLY. That is the main problem i have come across, that their personal faith, which can't be proven as true, at least not in this world, isn't enough. They need to make it into a universal truth.

I'm perfectly happy with not knowing some things and the things i do know about such things as evolution make sense because IT WORKS IN THIS WORLD. It's testable, it's falsifiable, it's undeniably a fact.

The problem for those who seek to proclaim their faith as universal truth is that their god of the gaps is getting smaller and smaller all the time and not even spreading ignorance like ID can fix it for them, they have to remain in denial or accept truth.

 

[DealMonkey]

Humans, in all of their self-importance, are particularly appalled by the notion that somehow humanity was all just a cosmic accident, a totally random combination of base elements and amino acids in the primordial soup. So entirely religions have sprung up, trying to give meaning to the meaningless, and thrashing about wildly when anyone dares contradict their divine hocus-pocus. That life has no meaning, other than what we choose to give it, is evil beyond anything imaginable.

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Lemon law
LunarRay says, " When Darwin was bobbing about on Beagle I think we in the US were almost universal in the Creation doctrine. Today, I think we're moving toward accepting evolution except for human creation. They'll need the 'Missing Link' to alter that to any extent, I think."

We may not be there at every steps of the missing links in human ancestry from the fossil record, but enough is already there to make it almost scientifically certain. And the work is still ongoing with new finds filling more and more gaps, its already long past deniable.

But the question still unanswered is, exactly how and when did humans made that huge leap in "intelligence" while other similar species did not.
As it is, we can trace the mitochondrial dna of all humans to one common mother some 74,000 years in the past.

My guess would be that is all humans except Africans.

??

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I've never understood the battle between evolution and creationism. Just another unnecessary war really. One is the scientific study on the changing of life, the other a religious belief dealing with the creation of life. Neither contradicts the other, yet the war carries on. And the biggest problem is this is being fought on the political battlefield, which should be empty of both side's soldiers.

:thumbsup: