Crazy Americans

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
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The conspiracy theories and other crazy thoughts in this article have been posted in this forum for years. I felt this article did a good job of condensing them.

link

Still crazy after all these years


The perils of losing one's grip on reality


NOT long after the assassination of John Kennedy in 1963, the Senate contemplated a bill to tighten federal control over the sale of guns through the post. Three gun-lovers drove 2,500 miles from Arizona to Washington, DC, to protest. One argued that the bill was part of ?a further attempt by a subversive power to make us part of one world socialistic government? and that it could ?create chaos? and help ?our enemies? to seize power. Not much has changed since Richard Hofstadter described this incident in a hugely influential book, ?The Paranoid Style in American Politics?. Gun-lovers still argue that the slightest curb on their right to bear arms will make America vulnerable to tyranny. And in other areas, too, the paranoid style is alive and frothing.

Some of Barack Obama?s detractors content themselves with arguing that he is a bad president. Others go further. ?Birthers? insist that he was not born in the United States and is therefore constitutionally barred from being president. Yet Mr Obama?s birth certificate says he was born in Hawaii, and there is not a shred of evidence to the contrary. There is even an announcement of his birth in the archive of the Honolulu Advertiser, a local newspaper. Yet the internet crackles with theories as to how all this was faked so that, 48 years later, Mr Obama could impose a socialist state on America. And a YouGov poll for The Economist found that 26% of Republicans think Mr Obama is probably foreign-born.

Other conspiracy theories about Mr Obama are even loopier. For example, some Americans think he is the Antichrist. The evidence for this, apparently, is that in the Bible Jesus is quoted as predicting that Satan will come down like lightning from heaven, and the words for ?lightning? and ?heaven? in Hebrew sound a bit like ?Barack Obama?. Plus, his presidential limo is nicknamed ?The Beast?. For those who think this is too far-fetched, there is the theory that Mr Obama is a closet Nazi. He thinks abortion should be legal. Historically, some abortion advocates have also been eugenicists. Therefore he must be one of them. Also, he wants to discourage smoking. So did Hitler!

Hofstadter, writing at the time of Barry Goldwater?s insurgency, argued that political paranoia?a mix of anger, heated exaggeration, suspiciousness and conspiratorial fantasy?was most evident on the extreme right. And there are plenty of examples of right-wingers peddling nutty tales. Isolationists in the 1940s accused Franklin Roosevelt of deliberately letting the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbour to provide an excuse for war. Talk-radio crackpots in the 1990s accused the Clintons of having Vince Foster, a depressive friend of theirs who killed himself, murdered.

But the left is hardly immune to such fantasies. Some people, including Mr Obama?s own former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, believe that AIDS was cooked up by the government to kill blacks. A staggering 18% of Americans think that the government of George Bush probably knew in advance about the attacks of September 11th 2001 but allowed them to proceed anyway. Some even contend that Mr Bush orchestrated the attacks himself, to create an excuse for invading Iraq. To believe this, you have to believe that the Bushies were both wicked enough to murder thousands of Americans and brilliant enough to execute such a mind-bogglingly sophisticated plot without a single leak?in a culture where Richard Nixon could not even hush up a burglary.

Belief in conspiracy theories can be comforting. If everything that goes wrong is the fault of a secret cabal, that relieves you of the tedious necessity of trying to understand how a complex world really works. And you can feel smug that you are smart enough to ?see through? the official version of events. But widespread paranoia has drawbacks. For a start, it makes calm, rational debate rather tricky. How can you discuss the trade-offs of health-care reform, for example, with someone who thinks the government is plotting to kill grandma? It does not help, either, that politicians on both sides are willing to fan the flames. Sarah Palin calls Mr Obama?s health-care proposals ?evil?. Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader, calls the protesters who loudly oppose them ?evil-mongers?. Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House of Representatives, calls them ?un-American?.



It?s serious
In his book ?Voodoo Histories: The Role of the Conspiracy Theory in Shaping Modern History?, David Aaronovitch argues that conspiratorial fantasy can have dangerous real-world consequences. Hitler read and believed The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a bogus account of a global Jewish conspiracy. So did the founders of Hamas. Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with a bomb in Oklahoma in 1995 because he thought the federal government was hatching various dastardly plots.

Some people watch the ferment at town-hall meetings in America today and worry that another Oklahoma-style atrocity is brewing. A few protesters are waving placards wishing for Mr Obama?s death. Others are ostentatiously wearing firearms outside his rallies. A recent report by the Southern Poverty Law Centre describes an uptick in the number of ?Patriot? militia groups since Mr Obama?s election and frets that some could turn violent.

One should not exaggerate such threats. The Secret Service does not let gun-wielding protesters too near the president. And the vast majority of people who visit crazy websites will never hurt anyone. But there is no cause for complacency, either. Politicians should tone down the rhetoric. Protesters should read some history before making Hitler comparisons. Talk-show hosts should stop pretending that paranoid nitwits are asking reasonable questions. If people are continually told that their government is plotting against them, a few may decide to fight back. And as Lee Harvey Oswald showed, even one man with a violent sense of grievance can do a lot of harm.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
Sounds about right. In response, a quote from the late George Carlin comes to mind:

Consider how stupid the average person is...then remember that 50% of the population is stupider than that guy.

Such is American politics...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,559
6,707
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Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Sounds about right. In response, a quote from the late George Carlin comes to mind:

Consider how stupid the average person is...then remember that 50% of the population is stupider than that guy.

Such is American politics...

Bull shit. You salve yourself with a platitude from Carlin thinking no deeper into the matter and relieving yourself of any responsibility or sense that anything needs doing. It's just a simple fact that people are dumb. I think what we have discovered is that you are stupider than the average person, perhaps.

I believe there are reasons that Americans are terrified and I think they have to do with competition. Competition is hate and hate, a culture of hate creates nothing but more hate and fear. We live in constant terror of failure, of getting sick without money for medicine, of losing a job, of crime, and of the indifference of our neighbors. And we are failures also because we don't live like folk in commercials. We aren't perfectly beautiful, nor do we drive the best car.

Feel worthless so you will buy, feel fear so you will work for nothing. Do not trust your neighbor.

Americans are psychopaths because their culture is sick.

One more thing. This problem will never be solved because the assumption always is that we know who they are. Yes, we sane Americans know who they are. They are always some other American, never the guilty American that one can actually do something about, oneself. That is the one we all should know is responsible. Your active and passive aggression, the violence within you and only you is the reason American is insane because it is the only thing you can do anything about and don't.
 

totalnoob

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2009
1,389
1
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You are an idiot moonbeam. So competition is hate huh? What alternative do you propose in a world of finite resources?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,559
6,707
126
Originally posted by: totalnoob
You are an idiot moonbeam. So competition is hate huh? What alternative do you propose in a world of finite resources?

I propose you exaimine the mental prison you keep yourself in by examining your assumptions.

Look at your question, "What alternative do you propose in a world of finite resources?" and identify the assumptions you are holding as being true. Then we can look to see if they are. If you get stuck as a totalnoob, I will help you. A mental prison isn't a mental prison for no reason after all but you have an idiot like me to help you, somebody who was unable to learn all the clever thinking that keeps you locked up.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Sounds about right. In response, a quote from the late George Carlin comes to mind:

Consider how stupid the average person is...then remember that 50% of the population is stupider than that guy.

Such is American politics...

Bull shit. You salve yourself with a platitude from Carlin thinking no deeper into the matter and relieving yourself of any responsibility or sense that anything needs doing. It's just a simple fact that people are dumb. I think what we have discovered is that you are stupider than the average person, perhaps.

I believe there are reasons that Americans are terrified and I think they have to do with competition. Competition is hate and hate, a culture of hate creates nothing but more hate and fear. We live in constant terror of failure, of getting sick without money for medicine, of losing a job, of crime, and of the indifference of our neighbors. And we are failures also because we don't live like folk in commercials. We aren't perfectly beautiful, nor do we drive the best car.

Feel worthless so you will buy, feel fear so you will work for nothing. Do not trust your neighbor.

Americans are psychopaths because their culture is sick.

One more thing. This problem will never be solved because the assumption always is that we know who they are. Yes, we sane Americans know who they are. They are always some other American, never the guilty American that one can actually do something about, oneself. That is the one we all should know is responsible. Your active and passive aggression, the violence within you and only you is the reason American is insane because it is the only thing you can do anything about and don't.

Consume. Obey. Get ahead at all costs. Bow down before the almighty dollar! Everything is out to get you!

C'mon moonbeam. Nobody said that the culture doesn't have serious flaws or that we should simply lie back and take it. Ignorance abounds and the only thing that can change that is education and experience - a long and painstaking process. If you are not exposed to new things, then you will never be more than a blind sheep following along the path already laid out for you.

Call it a useless platitude if you want, but the fact of the matter is that this is the way our culture works and will continue to work until we decide to actually do something about it. Ignorance and a willingness to not expose one's self to other ideas is rampant. I just fear that we won't decide to do what is necessary for quite some time. Our political culture is poison and ignorance will remain rampant because it benefits too many of those in power.
 

totalnoob

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2009
1,389
1
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: totalnoob
You are an idiot moonbeam. So competition is hate huh? What alternative do you propose in a world of finite resources?

I propose you exaimine the mental prison you keep yourself in by examining your assumptions.

Look at your question, "What alternative do you propose in a world of finite resources?" and identify the assumptions you are holding as being true. Then we can look to see if they are. If you get stuck as a totalnoob, I will help you. A mental prison isn't a mental prison for no reason after all but you have an idiot like me to help you, somebody who was unable to learn all the clever thinking that keeps you locked up.

Moonbeam, my assumption is that every living creature on earth must struggle to survive because material goods are not in unlimited supply. We live in a world of limited resources. Since food, shelter, energy are in limited supply, competition is the natural result. With a few local exceptions, this has been the trend throughout the history of the human race. Kindly offer proof to the contrary. If no such proof exists, kindly explain how you intend to change human nature.
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
81
You must be full of hate then Moon because you compete like hell on these forums against everyone who does not think like you.

The statement that "competition is hate" comes from someone who has been on the losing end for most of his or her life.

Those of us that understand that competition in any form is a healthy way to improve ones abilities, learn from mistakes and constantly strive for improvement win or lose don't feel that way about competition. Only those that lose and don't learn why and repeat the same process over and over....hate competition and feel competition is a form of hate.

You probably never won a game of dodge ball.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Unlike Moonbeam, I won't bash my head against the wall of stupid people, in some vain attempt to change them. Stupid is as stupid does. Ignorant fucks like those demonstrated in the OP's article, will never change, why waste your time trying? The only thing I WOULD try to change is the ridiculous amount of media attention focused on their idiotic behavior. It's like training a camera on a retarded 3-year-old for 24 hours a day. No one wants to have to see that.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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The 9/11 conspiracy was originally put forth by a Frenchman and there are websites in Germany, the UK, Australia and many other countries around the world that specifically cater to the various 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Crazy is not unique to Americans.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The 9/11 conspiracy was originally put forth by a Frenchman and there are websites in Germany, the UK, Australia and many other countries around the world that specifically cater to the various 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Crazy is not unique to Americans.

I agree with this. Europe is as insane as America. I think this is more depressing thought, because it means that there's nowhere to go...
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Originally posted by: Wheezer
You must be full of hate then Moon because you compete like hell on these forums against everyone who does not think like you.

The statement that "competition is hate" comes from someone who has been on the losing end for most of his or her life.

Those of us that understand that competition in any form is a healthy way to improve ones abilities, learn from mistakes and constantly strive for improvement win or lose don't feel that way about competition. Only those that lose and don't learn why and repeat the same process over and over....hate competition and feel competition is a form of hate.

You probably never won a game of dodge ball.

I'll give a :thumbsup: to that.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,559
6,707
126
I remember many years ago a tour I went on to the University of San Francisco medical research center. As is my nature, when the tour went one way I went another. After a time I opened a door to a room in which there were caged hundreds and hundreds of monkeys but which, because the room was totally silent, I didn't notice just then. But when I entered the room in a single instant a thousand monkeys hit their cage doors shaking and screaming, an assault, I am sure, directed straight at the core of my being.

So thanks to the knowledge imparted to me serendipity by that chance meeting I have now long known to the depths of that very being exactly the welcome I am to expect when a higher man like myself walks around free thinking about therapeutically ideas among caged lesser beings.
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I remember many years ago a tour I went on to the University of San Francisco medical research center. As is my nature, when the tour went one way I went another. After a time I opened a door to a room in which there were caged hundreds and hundreds of monkeys but which, because the room was totally silent, I didn't notice just then. But when I entered the room in a single instant a thousand monkeys hit their cage doors shaking and screaming, an assault, I am sure, directed straight at the core of my being.

So thanks to the knowledge imparted to me serendipity by that chance meeting I have now long known to the depths of that very being exactly the welcome I am to expect when a higher man like myself walks around free thinking about therapeutically ideas among caged lesser beings.

So you got lost in a big building opened a door and a bunch of caged monkeys made you poop your pants.

And so now you roam the halls of these forums acting all high and mighty but when it comes down to it...we, the caged monkeys continue to make you shit your pants.

You must live every day in fear on these forums that you're going to ruin another pair of whitey tighties...so, so sad.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I propose you exaimine the mental prison you keep yourself in by examining your assumptions.

And I propose that you examine the mental prison you keep yourself in by examining your assumptions.

Just because you have exited your cage does not mean that you are now not in another.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Wow. Color me dissapointed. I thought this editorial would bring us together. There is something seriously wrong here.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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Ah yes. The attempt at those who disagree with Obama are crazies. Asking for representatives to represent us is crazy. It isn't working anymore, the country is waking up.

In fact this approach is backfiring because it's calling everyday americans who are concerned about their country "crazies". The editorial even paints the picture and lays the groundwork - that if you ask your reps questions in a public forum you are somehow linked to birthers and 9/11 conspiracy theorist, AND Rev Wright. All at the same time.

 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
There was a point in my life when I held empathy for those type A pathological narcissists with their exaggerated sense of self-importance. I figured they were neglected or unloved as a child or suffered through some crisis of detachment. We are talking maybe wacky firing synapses or bad chemicals - an emotional/physiological wreck of bad mojo in need of understanding. Not any more.

There is not interest in new ideas or reasonable discussion or compromise. Never an original thought. Competitive in ways that are difficult to comprehend. Contemptuous of others - extremely critical and infallible. Gotta win, baby. Bitch and moan about everyone and everything. Inflexible and authoritarian, feel entitled to whatever they can take. Love to go on the attack .... Then I figured it out.

They're just a bunch of ass hats.





 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
There was a point in my life when I held empathy for those type A pathological narcissists with their exaggerated sense of self-importance. I figured they were neglected or unloved as a child or suffered through some crisis of detachment. We are talking maybe wacky firing synapses or bad chemicals - an emotional/physiological wreck of bad mojo in need of understanding. Not any more.

There is not interest in new ideas or reasonable discussion or compromise. Never an original thought. Competitive in ways that are difficult to comprehend. Contemptuous of others - extremely critical and infallible. Gotta win, baby. Bitch and moan about everyone and everything. Inflexible and authoritarian, feel entitled to whatever they can take. Love to go on the attack .... Then I figured it out.

They're just a bunch of ass hats.

Then you're like me, or I'm like you... and now I love to laugh... and how many laughs to be found these days....

\sadly, far too many..
\\but still, I laugh....



 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I propose you exaimine the mental prison you keep yourself in by examining your assumptions.

And I propose that you examine the mental prison you keep yourself in by examining your assumptions.

Just because you have exited your cage does not mean that you are now not in another.

Good point.

I do think moon is right to some extent, he just carries it a bit too far. Competition is not the problem. The problem is people think that they are made "better" by what they own and the wealth they amass and the titles they carry and the power they wield. It is absurd, but it is the American way. It is the way of many cultures around the world. The sad thing is that it is such a farce b/c death steals it all.. and people leave this world as empty as they came. Probably a little emptier.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,559
6,707
126
Originally posted by: Dari
Wow. Color me dissapointed. I thought this editorial would bring us together. There is something seriously wrong here.

When you tell a bunch of sick people they are sick with the disease of competitiveness, they get very competitive. There they are little apes in cages and somebody comes along and opens a door. Suddenly their meaningless lives take on meaning. Here is somebody with whom they can get even. They don't want to know how to get out of their cages. They just want to throw shit. They will always be this way until they see it. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,559
6,707
126
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
*snip*

There is not one person who is more fit to posting in this thread.

Exactly, for you it's a contest, the hidden feeling that you are inferior and that I am fit, that a diagnosis is an accusation you must deny out of guilt. Like a child told he's being defensive, you jump up and down shouting, "I am not!". Behold, Dear Friends, what happens when a mirror enters your room. Ten thousand shit eating monkeys hit the bars screaming, 'Its a giant turd."
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The 9/11 conspiracy was originally put forth by a Frenchman and there are websites in Germany, the UK, Australia and many other countries around the world that specifically cater to the various 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Crazy is not unique to Americans.
Sure, but we are the only ones who's government published their own official conspiracy theory on that, and many Americans lack the mental stability to acknowledge the flagrant errors in it.