Crash pilot who paused to pray is convicted and sent to jail

[ProfJohn]

Very interesting story. Plane runs out of fuel and crashes. The pilots are convicted of a crime for praying instead of following emergency procedures.

Read the story then click the link and listen to the black box recording.

PALERMO (Reuters) ? A Tunisian pilot who paused to pray instead of taking emergency measures before crash-landing his plane, killing 16 people, has been sentenced to 10 years in jail by an Italian court along with his co-pilot.
The 2005 crash at sea off Sicily left survivors swimming for their lives, some clinging to a piece of the fuselage that remained floating after the ATR turbo-prop aircraft splintered upon impact.
A fuel-gauge malfunction was partly to blame but prosecutors also said the pilot succumbed to panic, praying out loud instead of following emergency procedures and then opting to crash-land the plane instead trying to reach a nearby airport.
Another five employees of Tuninter, a subsidiary of Tunisair, were sentenced to between eight and nine years in jail by the court, in a verdict handed down Monday.
The seven accused, who were not in court, will not spend time in jail until the appeals process has been exhausted.

Black box recording via youtube
link

I find a hard time finding the 'crime' in what these guys did.
Please do NOT comment until you have heard the tape!!!!!

 

[OCGuy]

Well the fact that it was "praying" shouldnt matter. If he stopped to play a game of cards, take a long dump, or a nap....it is all the same. And all of it should be punished.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Reminds me in a vague way of the parents who will pray for their kids to get better rather than taking them to a doctor (can't listen to the video at work).

 

[JSt0rm]

I know if i was on a plane that was crashing I would take option 2 take a long dump

 

[Robor]

The question is, are pilots criminally responsible for failure to perform their duties?

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: Robor
The question is, are pilots criminally responsible for failure to perform their duties?

Exactly. What they chose to do instead of doing their duties is irrelevant. The fact is that they were negligent in their duties which (according to the trial) resulted in the death of others. I'd say the punishment is correct.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Well the fact that it was "praying" shouldnt matter. If he stopped to play a game of cards, take a long dump, or a nap....it is all the same. And all of it should be punished.

this

 

[halik]

Err just listened to the whole thing, wtf are they talking about? The dudes didn't start quietly praying untill the last couple seconds after they were all set for ditch.

If they did not follow the ditching manual for whatever reason, that's one thing... but even at that 10 years seems little excessive.

 

[piasabird]

How is it the responsibility of the Pilot when they run out of fuel? It is not like he has many options. Whoever runs the airlines should know how far a plane can fly on a X number of pounds of Jet Fuel. Sounds like Italy just wanted a scapegoat and the pilots and crew were all they could find.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Robor

The question is, are pilots criminally responsible for failure to perform their duties?

In this case, your question only applies to Italian law. In the U.S., the question of criminality would probably depend on whether the pilot's delay constituted criminal negligence and whether the pressure and confusion of the emergency was sufficient to excuse his distraction from his duties as pilot.

Even without the criminal charges, he and the airline would probably face civil liablity.

 

[ProfJohn]

Please do NOT comment until you have heard the tape!!!!!
Those of you you who have not heard the tape have NO IDEA what you are saying.

The tape is 5 minutes long the 'praying' lasts a few seconds as most.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Please do NOT comment until you have heard the tape!!!!!
Those of you you who have not heard the tape have NO IDEA what you are saying.

The tape is 5 minutes long the 'praying' lasts a few seconds as most.

Just based on the tape alone, I don't see the praying as a problem, but somehow I doubt that is the only thing that convicted them?

 

[HardcoreRobot]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Please do NOT comment until you have heard the tape!!!!!
Those of you you who have not heard the tape have NO IDEA what you are saying.

The tape is 5 minutes long the 'praying' lasts a few seconds as most.

Why do you keep focusing on the praying?

Determine if they were negligent for ANY reason, then use that as the basis for punishment.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Please do NOT comment until you have heard the tape!!!!!
Those of you you who have not heard the tape have NO IDEA what you are saying.

The tape is 5 minutes long the 'praying' lasts a few seconds as most.

Why do you keep focusing on the praying?

Determine if they were negligent for ANY reason, then use that as the basis for punishment.

That is a wonderful idea, but the story from the OP suggests they are going to jail based on the praying alone.

If you have more evidence to provide then please do so.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Please do NOT comment until you have heard the tape!!!!!
Those of you you who have not heard the tape have NO IDEA what you are saying.

The tape is 5 minutes long the 'praying' lasts a few seconds as most.

My first post was addressing the general situation because the Italian court did convict the pilot.

In this case, I don't think the pilot should have been convicted of anything. His 'prayer" is just an exclamatory "Oh, god..." and "In the name of god..." at the very end of the tape. It's as much an exclamatory statement as "Holy shit!" and comes AFTER the final statement that they were going to ditch, about 14 seconds from the end of the tape. He and the crew had already gone through the emergency procedures, and there wasn't anything more they could do.

Even atheists pray when that's all that's left.

 

[Descartes]

OK, I listened to the whole tape, didn't read any articles and haven't read any other posts.

I know nothing about commercial aviation, but I see nothing wrong. I'm assuming we're talking about the final 10 seconds or so, because the little "Oh god" type comments in between certainly isn't praying. I see no issue with people making their final peace with themselves and their beliefs.

 

[jonks]

No reason for people to freak, god will spring them from prison.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: piasabird
How is it the responsibility of the Pilot when they run out of fuel? It is not like he has many options. Whoever runs the airlines should know how far a plane can fly on a X number of pounds of Jet Fuel. Sounds like Italy just wanted a scapegoat and the pilots and crew were all they could find.

First off it was the pilots responsibility to not run out of fuel in the first place. At least in the U.S. airlines simply supply the pilot with the proposed route and required fuel. They may even arrange to have the plane fueled up. But is is the pilots responsibility to make damn sure that he knows how much fuel is on board before he starts the engines. If there is even a 1,500 pound discrepency from what is supposed to be on board to what you think you have on board, the pilot hass to go back and figure out where that difference came in.

Especially flying routes over water. There is always a point of no return and the pilots are the only ones capable to make the decision as to whether there is enough fuel on board.

And he has options. The plane does not stop flying once the engine stops. There is a lot of stuff the pilot can do... prepare the cabin, notify emergency crews, manuever the plane in a manner that will allow a safe ditching, etc.

The only case where he would have time to pray is if both wings fell off and he was spiraling into the ground... then there are not many options.

(I am at work and cannot view the youtube video at the moment).

 

[ProfJohn]

rudder... the plane had the WRONG fuel gauge installed.

How is the pilot suppose to know that??

Again, if you have not heard the video do not comment.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: rudder

And he has options. The plane does not stop flying once the engine stops. There is a lot of stuff the pilot can do... prepare the cabin, notify emergency crews, manuever the plane in a manner that will allow a safe ditching, etc.

The only case where he would have time to pray is if both wings fell off and he was spiraling into the ground... then there are not many options.

(I am at work and cannot view the youtube video at the moment).

On the tape it sounds like he did everything he was supposed to be doing. Only at the end did he pray. It's not clear from the audio who was controlling the plane and who was praying.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Robor

The question is, are pilots criminally responsible for failure to perform their duties?

In this case, your question only applies to Italian law. In the U.S., the question of criminality would probably depend on whether the pilot's delay constituted criminal negligence and whether the pressure and confusion of the emergency was sufficient to excuse his distraction from his duties as pilot.

Even without the criminal charges, he and the airline would probably face civil liablity.

I don't know of any part 121 (FAA regs which U.S. airlines operate under) air crews that have ever been convicted in the U.S.

Remember James Polehinke? He was the first officer on Comair flight 191 that crashed in Kentuck killing all but himself.

Wiki link

There were many factors but it came down to pilot error and resulted in the plane taking off on the wrong runway. The crew violated the sterile cockpit rule and probably distracted them. One of the last things that are done before take off is to make sure the runway heading matches the instruments in the cockpit. Somewhere that step was missed.

Of course the airline had to pay out a lot of money to families but there was never any criminal charges brought. I guess it is hard to determine truly criminal behavior with bad skills.

In this case we are dealing with a different culture and different laws. Maybe the families don't get the millions like here in the U.S. so they get some consolation in knowing the pilot is in jail.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: rudder

And he has options. The plane does not stop flying once the engine stops. There is a lot of stuff the pilot can do... prepare the cabin, notify emergency crews, manuever the plane in a manner that will allow a safe ditching, etc.

The only case where he would have time to pray is if both wings fell off and he was spiraling into the ground... then there are not many options.

(I am at work and cannot view the youtube video at the moment).

On the tape it sounds like he did everything he was supposed to be doing. Only at the end did he pray. It's not clear from the audio who was controlling the plane and who was praying.

Did he try to switch fuel tanks?

My main criticism would be that he didn't attempt to make the landing field. Not knowing if he tried to switch tanks or even if he was was actually running out of fuel or just thought he was, I can't really make a call?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: rudder

And he has options. The plane does not stop flying once the engine stops. There is a lot of stuff the pilot can do... prepare the cabin, notify emergency crews, manuever the plane in a manner that will allow a safe ditching, etc.

The only case where he would have time to pray is if both wings fell off and he was spiraling into the ground... then there are not many options.

(I am at work and cannot view the youtube video at the moment).

On the tape it sounds like he did everything he was supposed to be doing. Only at the end did he pray. It's not clear from the audio who was controlling the plane and who was praying.

Did he try to switch fuel tanks?

My main criticism would be that he didn't attempt to make the landing field. Not knowing if he tried to switch tanks or even if he was was actually running out of fuel or just thought he was, I can't really make a call?

Did you listen and watch the video??

They tried everything and it is clear as day on the video!!!!

Stop posting crap if you have not listened to and watched the video!!!!!!
It is 5 minutes long with subtitles. Shows everything they did and everything that happened right up to the point of impact.

 

[soulcougher73]

I guess the praying worked. He lived and others died. Maybe ill take up this "religous" thing j/k

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: rudder

And he has options. The plane does not stop flying once the engine stops. There is a lot of stuff the pilot can do... prepare the cabin, notify emergency crews, manuever the plane in a manner that will allow a safe ditching, etc.

The only case where he would have time to pray is if both wings fell off and he was spiraling into the ground... then there are not many options.

(I am at work and cannot view the youtube video at the moment).

On the tape it sounds like he did everything he was supposed to be doing. Only at the end did he pray. It's not clear from the audio who was controlling the plane and who was praying.

Did he try to switch fuel tanks?

My main criticism would be that he didn't attempt to make the landing field. Not knowing if he tried to switch tanks or even if he was was actually running out of fuel or just thought he was, I can't really make a call?

Did you listen and watch the video??

They tried everything and it is clear as day on the video!!!!

Stop posting crap if you have not listened to and watched the video!!!!!!
It is 5 minutes long with subtitles. Shows everything they did and everything that happened right up to the point of impact.

I watched the video, but my hearing sucks. It did seem to me that the engines were still running when they crashed but i'm not even sure about that. As I said earlier, I'm having a hard time beleiving that the little prayer they said while working has anything to do with their conviction.