CPU upgrade

[ZGrip]

Hello,

I am looking to do a CPU upgrade to my current setup:

Athlon 64 X2 4000+ @ 2.6 GHz
EVGA Geforce 8600 GT
WD Raptor 150 Gb
Silverstone SST-ST60F 600W PSU
8 GB of DDR2 800
ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Mobo

I am looking to replace the Motherboard and CPU. The ram if necessary as well.

The computer will be used almost exclusively for running MATLAB, some light ABAQUS work and some custom written image segmentation/processing code. It is possible that I will be working with very large data sets.

I will need a minimum of 8 GB of RAM. I would prefer 12 or 16 GB however. I was wondering if it is worth it to get an i7-920 or should I go with a phenom II X4 965. Also I would like to keep my budget under 1000 dollars.

Thanks for your help!

 

[veri745]

If you've got a thousand dollar budget, there's no reason not to go all out. An x58 mobo and an i7 920 with loads of ram can easily be had for under $1000.

On the other hand, you could drop in a PhenomII 965 and some more ram in your current setup for $300 or less.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Core i7

 

[SolMiester]

LOL, just for a laugh, go over to amd zone and ask there....LMAO

 

[v8envy]

Serious answer: many X58 boards come with 6 slots for RAM and support up to 24GB. That's the best way to get a bunch of RAM on a budget. Since 2GB and higher density ram modules are worth their weight in gold the small premium of the X58 platform will save you a bunch over buying expensive RAM. If you look very closely, most of the enthusiast boards for AMD support "only" 8G.

Also, if you need that much RAM you probably have a need to access it all quickly. The triple channel of X58 would be of benefit to you if your application behaves more like a memory benchmark than a typical desktop application mix.

 

[mb103051]

for the average user the ph2's are more than youll ever need...if you are doing alot of video rendering and running memory intensive apps the the i7 would be the better choise..
the i7 systems are a great choise for specific segment of the market but for 95% of the desktop market the ph2 x4's are overkill for almost all desktop apps...
also remember the i7's do put out some heat so a good cooler and a breezy case along with a quality power supply is a must...
I can tell you from experience using my sons i7 system for the apps I run ,internet ,some games,cd and dvd burns and most tasks i dont see any real world difference from my amd system....
but if you just want the most stellar system out and have the bucks then the i7 is a fine choise...
ill have to say though the amd phenom 2's are really amazing and are very affordable ..
i dream of an i7 system and i can easily afford one. I put a dream system in my cart at newegg and get ready to pull the trigger but good sence takes over and my alter ego says spending 780.00 bucks for an upgrade that for my use ill never see any real world difference makes me go ahead and just order a 955 x4 o/clocked to 3.6 on stock volts and good lord this rig flies...so i spend 189.00 and i can honestly say i am totally thrilled with my system.....
im mostly an amd guy [i prefer the underdog] but intel has some stellar products out so order which ever system fits your needs or really lites your fire...you really cant go wrong with either system...really comes down to what you budget is...i would not quit eating to have an i7 system though....in reality i7 systems are only truly useful to about 3-5% of the desktop market...
these are just my opinions from the research ive done for the type of use i use my computer for...its like ass##### everyone has one.....good luck ...

 

[heyheybooboo]

I couldn't find any Crucial unbuffered ECC 4Gb sticks for your current motherboard

If you wish to leap to DDR3 for an Asus M4A785TD-M Evo 785G ---> Crucial 8GB Kit (4GBx2) PC3-8500 CL7 for (ouch) $760.

8Gb (4x2Gb) CL7 ECC is around $280.

Can you 'cluster' or are you limited to a single node?

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: mb103051
for the average user the ph2's are more than youll ever need...if you are doing alot of video rendering and running memory intensive apps the the i7 would be the better choise..
the i7 systems are a great choise for specific segment of the market but for 95% of the desktop market the ph2 x4's are overkill for almost all desktop apps...
also remember the i7's do put out some heat so a good cooler and a breezy case along with a quality power supply is a must...
I can tell you from experience using my sons i7 system for the apps I run ,internet ,some games,cd and dvd burns and most tasks i dont see any real world difference from my amd system....
but if you just want the most stellar system out and have the bucks then the i7 is a fine choise...
ill have to say though the amd phenom 2's are really amazing and are very affordable ..
i dream of an i7 system and i can easily afford one. I put a dream system in my cart at newegg and get ready to pull the trigger but good sence takes over and my alter ego says spending 780.00 bucks for an upgrade that for my use ill never see any real world difference makes me go ahead and just order a 955 x4 o/clocked to 3.6 on stock volts and good lord this rig flies...so i spend 189.00 and i can honestly say i am totally thrilled with my system.....
im mostly an amd guy [i prefer the underdog] but intel has some stellar products out so order which ever system fits your needs or really lites your fire...you really cant go wrong with either system...really comes down to what you budget is...i would not quit eating to have an i7 system though....in reality i7 systems are only truly useful to about 3-5% of the desktop market...
these are just my opinions from the research ive done for the type of use i use my computer for...its like ass##### everyone has one.....good luck ...

I think its rather clear from the OP that their usage patterns aren't representative of the "average user"...so telling them that anything above a PhII is overkill for web-surfing is probably not going to assist them much in terms of enabling them to make a decision.

Originally posted by: ZGrip
The computer will be used almost exclusively for running MATLAB, some light ABAQUS work and some custom written image segmentation/processing code. It is possible that I will be working with very large data sets.

I will need a minimum of 8 GB of RAM. I would prefer 12 or 16 GB however.

Is overclocking an option for you? Or will the new rig be a "stock only" setup?

FWIW, no ability for me to determine quality or validity of the benchmarker or the results, but this review shows the i7 920 performing rather poorly on Matlab benchmark compared to penryn/yorkfield...but they don't show PhenomII benches so we really have no way of using this data to argue for or against an i7 or a PhII.

The memory needs pretty much say you want to go with an x58 and 6 dimm slots, the performance differences between i7 and PhII might not be all that much but you aren't going to find an AMD board for desktop chips that has 6 dimm slots or three memory channels.

 

[ZGrip]

IDC - Overclocking is not an option for me as stability of the rig is paramount.

Right now I have simulations that I am running in MATLAB that are taking 4+ hours. I would really really like to be able to cut that down significantly. I am typically more of an AMD person but this is for work and speed trumps fanboyism when it comes to my income.

As for ABAQUS and the image processing software. The image processing software is using ITK if anyone is familiar with that. I am not sure if I will be able to find benchmarks anywhere for that. If anyone has any idea as to the performance in this type of application I would be grateful.

Does it still hold true that AMD has faster floating point calculations then Intel when it comes to phenom II and core i7?

 

[HannibalX]

Why not go with a 6-core Opteron if you have the $$$ to drop? A real workstation board will have more memory slots as well, plus you can use ECC memory and kiss memory errors goodbye (which you no doubt will have with large data sets).

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: ZGrip

I will need a minimum of 8 GB of RAM. I would prefer 12 or 16 GB however. I was wondering if it is worth it to get an i7-920 or should I go with a phenom II X4 965. Also I would like to keep my budget under 1000 dollars.

Thanks for your help!

X58 + 920.

 

[schenley101]

Matlab likes more cores/threads. I would go with an i7. what kind of calculations do you do with matlab?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: ZGrip
Right now I have simulations that I am running in MATLAB that are taking 4+ hours. I would really really like to be able to cut that down significantly. I am typically more of an AMD person but this is for work and speed trumps fanboyism when it comes to my income.

If you're doing anything like this, I would recommend X58 + Core i7 (get the best CPU in class that you can since OCing is not allowed) plus however much RAM you can afford. If you want to go AMD and stay in the same class of performance, you may be stuck going for a 2p workstation setup (I can't seem to find an Opteron 1435 which should be the model name for a 1p Istanbul; 2435 = 2p, 8435 = 8p). Still, 2x Opteron 2374 HE + board + RAM should be doable on a $1k budget and will give you a pretty nice advantage over 1p Nehalem setups (unless you go Nehalem-EX which, to my knowledge, isn't out yet) provided that the workload is sufficiently parallel.

As for ABAQUS and the image processing software. The image processing software is using ITK if anyone is familiar with that. I am not sure if I will be able to find benchmarks anywhere for that. If anyone has any idea as to the performance in this type of application I would be grateful.

http://www.simulia.com/support/v67/v67_performance.html

Does that help? Or do I have the wrong ABAQUS?

Does it still hold true that AMD has faster floating point calculations then Intel when it comes to phenom II and core i7?

I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

 

[Yukmouth]

Intel chips run *WAY* hot as of late and I refuse to own a computer that doubles as a space heater, so AMD gets my vote on this one.

Intel took the floating point crown back with the i5/i7, but given the cost and heat output, I'd say you'd be better off waiting for the next revision. I'm sure there's a lot more to come of the core i5/i7. The best of Intel would net you more performance than amd's top teir without an overclock, but, the cost is not easily justifiable when you consider AMD is going to have to drop price's soon.

Working with 1k, Intel is a viable option so I say do whatevers comfortable. You won't be disappointed with either option. AMD gives me what I'm not willing to pay for on a more consistent basis so they see my money.

 

[mozartrules]

I don't know enough about how well your software scales over many cores, but there is an argument for buying a 2-socket 1366 motherboard. That would force you to get a slightly slower processor, but your would have a good upgrade path (second processor and 24Gb RAM becomes simple) and the ECC server memory comes in semi-affordable 4Gb size. Something like SUPERMICRO MBD-X8DAL ($290), Xeon E5520 ($385), Patriot 3x4Gb ($375) though you may need a new power supply as well.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: mozartrules
I don't know enough about how well your software scales over many cores, but there is an argument for buying a 2-socket 1366 motherboard. That would force you to get a slightly slower processor, but your would have a good upgrade path (second processor and 24Gb RAM becomes simple) and the ECC server memory comes in semi-affordable 4Gb size. Something like SUPERMICRO MBD-X8DAL ($290), Xeon E5520 ($385), Patriot 3x4Gb ($375) though you may need a new power supply as well.

2p Nehalem Xeon would be quite a bit of power and work well for Matlab, but the parts you listed would put him over budget by just a hair with one processor. An upgrade path would be there, but there's no guarantee he actually wants to spend more money on the system down the road.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Yukmouth
Intel chips run *WAY* hot as of late and I refuse to own a computer that doubles as a space heater, so AMD gets my vote on this one.

????
i7 920: 130W rated
Phenom II 955: 125W rated

Actual power measured by Anandtech favors Intel over AMD. link.

As for a suggestion, get a server board. I haven't seen any reasonably priced 4gb ram sticks, so you're limited to the number of slots x 2gb. AMD boards are almost all limited to 8gb because of this, socket 1366 boards are limited to 12gb mostly. A server board could have 8 or more slots = 16gb limit.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: Yukmouth
Intel chips run *WAY* hot as of late and I refuse to own a computer that doubles as a space heater, so AMD gets my vote on this one.

????
i7 920: 130W rated
Phenom II 955: 125W rated

Actual power measured by Anandtech favors Intel over AMD. link.

As for a suggestion, get a server board. I haven't seen any reasonably priced 4gb ram sticks, so you're limited to the number of slots x 2gb. AMD boards are almost all limited to 8gb because of this, socket 1366 boards are limited to 12gb mostly. A server board could have 8 or more slots = 16gb limit.

The vast majority of X58 boards support 24GB max (6 x 4GB Sticks). The popular Gigabyte X58 UD3R is limited to 16GB, but boards from Jetway (yuck), Foxconn (meh), Msi (decent), ASRock (bleh), DFI (hrm), ECS (BLAH), EVGA, Asus, and so on, all support the full 24GB of ram.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
The vast majority of X58 boards support 24GB max (6 x 4GB Sticks). The popular Gigabyte X58 UD3R is limited to 16GB, but boards from Jetway (yuck), Foxconn (meh), Msi (decent), ASRock (bleh), DFI (hrm), ECS (BLAH), EVGA, Asus, and so on, all support the full 24GB of ram.

Companies have been saying their boards support this but that ram virtually doesn't exist and we've been waiting for several years now. Newegg sells only 4 models of 4gb sticks (there are 74 models of 2gb), and the only 4gb DD3 is $470. 24gb of DDR3 based on 6x4gb would cost $2820 just for the memory. Comparatively, ECC DDR3 server memory is $45 for 2gb sticks, so it would only cost $540 for the same 24gb of it.

This is why you won't find a single person on all of Anandtech who owns 4gb memory sticks and this is why you don't estimate your max memory as slots x 4gb.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: Arkaign
The vast majority of X58 boards support 24GB max (6 x 4GB Sticks). The popular Gigabyte X58 UD3R is limited to 16GB, but boards from Jetway (yuck), Foxconn (meh), Msi (decent), ASRock (bleh), DFI (hrm), ECS (BLAH), EVGA, Asus, and so on, all support the full 24GB of ram.

Companies have been saying their boards support this but that ram virtually doesn't exist and we've been waiting for several years now. Newegg sells only 4 models of 4gb sticks (there are 74 models of 2gb), and the only 4gb DD3 is $470. 24gb of DDR3 based on 6x4gb would cost $2820 just for the memory. Comparatively, ECC DDR3 server memory is $45 for 2gb sticks, so it would only cost $540 for the same 24gb of it.

This is why you won't find a single person on all of Anandtech who owns 4gb memory sticks and this is why you don't estimate your max memory as slots x 4gb.

Yeah, the 4GB sticks are $$$ for now. DDR3 hasn't been out that long though in commercial distribution, so several years sounds like an exaggeration. AM3 and X58 mobos are still relatively recent. Remember that it took a little while for 1GB DDR1 sticks to appear, and when DDR2 hit, it took a while for 2GB sticks to appear. I clearly remember buying a 2GB (2x1GB) CL4 DDR2-800 kit from Newegg for almost $300 in 2006, and now 4GB sets of better ram are commonly $50 or less.

Once demand and production ramp up for DDR3, the prices will plummet extremely rapidly. Remember, many systems still ship with DDR2, and the *vast* majority of systems currently in use are DDR2 or older. In a couple of years, it will be like things are now, DDR1 will become like Sdram is now, DDR2 will start to become more scarce/pricey such as DDR1 is now, and DDR3 will be the de facto standard, with dirt cheap prices to match.

Core i7 launched in Oct '08, and AM3 launched Feb '09. The June '07 Bearlake P35 was pretty much a test run, and shouldn't really count, as there was almost zero incentive to manufacture much DDR3.

Mark my words, you'll see dramatically lower prices in 6 months, and lower still a year from now. This is why a board with full 24GB support makes sense to really be able to wring some extra juice out of in a year or two.