cpu sockets, necessary evil or rogue business tactics?

[Magic Carpet]

Now, seriously... what exactly was the need to go down the 1156>1155 route if not milking us, the end-customers?

Please, enlighten me, if I'm dead wrong and that was a necessary technological innovation?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Well, I guess since we only have two examples we'll have to use them to answer that question.

Intel changes sockets, AMD really doesn't.

Intel increases IPC, AMD really doesn't.

Since 775 we've seen 1156 and 1155 for mainstream, and with it each we saw a nice increase in performance.

Since AM2+ we've seen a required AM3 board for DDR3, and almost no IPC increases only refined designs until bulldozer which just increases pin thickness to deal with it's incredibly bad power draw.

 

[pauldun170]

Well, I guess since we only have two examples we'll have to use them to answer that question.

Intel changes sockets, AMD really doesn't.

Intel increases IPC, AMD really doesn't.

Since 775 we've seen 1156 and 1155 for mainstream, and with it each we saw a nice increase in performance.

Since AM2+ we've seen a required AM3 board for DDR3, and almost no IPC increases only refined designs until bulldozer which just increases pin thickness to deal with it's incredibly bad power draw.

That bout covers it.
End thread

 

[hasu]

Intel increases IPC, AMD really doesn't.

Since 775 we've seen 1156 and 1155 for mainstream, and with it each we saw a nice increase in performance.

Since AM2+ we've seen a required AM3 board for DDR3, and almost no IPC increases only refined designs until bulldozer which just increases pin thickness to deal with it's incredibly bad power draw.

You mean IPC is directly proportional to the number of pins?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Nope, not at all, 1366 has lower IPC than 1155.

 

[GammaLaser]

Also Haswell will bring about another new socket but that would be the result of the integration of the VRMs, which could have some implications on perf/watt.

 

[douglasb]

The tl;dr is that Intel actually innovates and produces better CPU's, thereby also causing you to get a newer and better motherboard, while AMD basically makes more of the same crap, but at least you can still put it in your old crappy AMD motherboard, thereby saving money.

Sad, but true. I was the biggest AMD supporter from about 1998-2011, but they are just horrible now.

 

[georgec84]

Sad, but true. I was the biggest AMD supporter from about 1998-2011, but they are just horrible now.

The night is darkest just before the dawn. AMD has a lot going for them in Llano, Brazos, Trinity, etc. Bulldozer's successor will get it right.

That said, CPU socket changes are a necessary evil AND a rogue business tactic.

 

[RavenSEAL]

The tl;dr is that Intel actually innovates and produces better CPU's, thereby also causing you to get a newer and better motherboard, while AMD basically makes more of the same crap, but at least you can still put it in your old crappy AMD motherboard, thereby saving money.

Sad, but true. I was the biggest AMD supporter from about 1998-2011, but they are just horrible now.

So your new year's resolution was to hate a company?

 

[douglasb]

So your new year's resolution was to hate a company?

Nah, I don't hate AMD. Far from it, actually. They gave me quite a few quality products at a very competitive price for over 10 years. That is no longer the case, however. Their products just can't compete with Intel's products in the same price range. Sometimes, their chips get beat by cheaper Intel chips. Which is basically the opposite of how it used to be, when Athlon XP owned Pentium 4, and Athlon 64 owned both of them super hard.

Bottom line is, I don't hate AMD, but I would have to be crazy to give them my money or recommend their products at this point in time.

 

[Rifter]

Bottom line is, I don't hate AMD, but I would have to be crazy to give them my money or recommend their products at this point in time.

This is how i feel as well.

 

[StrangerGuy]

This has been happening since like forever.

Business tactic, sure. Don't like it? Then don't buy Sandy Bridge. Intel owes you nothing just because you bought their past products.

You can always buy AMD, oh wait, they are also doing the same thing except even worse.

 

[janas19]

How would a socket change benefit Intel? If you want to upgrade your CPU, they don't care if you have to buy a new mobo or not.

 

[StrangerGuy]

How would a socket change benefit Intel? If you want to upgrade your CPU, they don't care if you have to buy a new mobo or not.

Guess who make chipsets for Intel.

Guess who likes to sell more mobos.

 

[nyker96]

considering 775, socket A, am2+/am3 can be reused for new cpu designs, I'd have to say I think Intel is milking the market somehow with so many new sockets for each new cpu. 1155/1156/1366/2011, they don't release enthusiasts products on the same platform as mainstream no more, I think just for that they are milking the market for more cash. It's not like they can't put a 1366 chip in a 1156 socket or 2011 chip in a 1155 package, you just loose some memory bandwidth is all, but it could be done. as for amd, i think they are slowly but steadily moving backwards, in another couple of years maybe they'll get all the way back to socket a days who knows.

 

[watek]

Bottom line is, I don't hate AMD, but I would have to be crazy to give them my money or recommend their products at this point in time.

Same, not to the extent of not recommending any AMD products because I feel some of their older lineup is still good if you're comparing price/performance. But wtf AMD, we should be recommending your NEW products but instead have to recommend older cpu's made years ago..

I mean if you look at intel boards/forums, most of the people tell you "get 2500K" and not "get a I7 860 or 920" or the older gen cpu's.

On AMD boards/forums, people are saying get a AMD chip from 3-4 years ago. In our computer tech world the latest should be the BEST available right now and today.

I probably don't make any sense right now and this debate has been argued for awhile anyways

 

[janas19]

Guess who make chipsets for Intel.

Guess who likes to sell more mobos.

Don't think it really matters. Intel sells the cpus, not the chipsets.

 

[Zap]

Intel changes sockets, AMD really doesn't.

FM1 and soon to be FM2?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Soon? I thought we just got to 2012?

Yep, AMD needed a new socket for Stars with a gpu.

If bulldozer was on there it would be slower than Phenom II.

 

[know of fence]

Don't like it? Then don't buy Sandy Bridge. Intel owes you nothing just because you bought their past products.

Except of course keeping made promises of platform longevity, driver support and updates as well as a general courtesy of not trying to rip you off.
It's naive customers (and especially the public opinion forming press) with a bad memory, who are ultimately responsible for bad products.

Guess who make chipsets for Intel.
Guess who likes to sell more mobos.

Chipset production does keep the older fabs busy. It's this strategy that allows fast innovation in the first place, because the larger lithographic nodes don't immediately become obsolete and thus offer bigger returns on the investments.

 

[Joseph F]

Well, I guess since we only have two examples we'll have to use them to answer that question.

Intel changes sockets, AMD really doesn't.

Intel increases IPC, AMD really doesn't.

Since 775 we've seen 1156 and 1155 for mainstream, and with it each we saw a nice increase in performance.

Since AM2+ we've seen a required AM3 board for DDR3, and almost no IPC increases only refined designs until bulldozer which just increases pin thickness to deal with it's incredibly bad power draw.

Are you completely forgetting the fact that LGA775 started out with Pentium IV and ended with the Core 2 Quad QX9770?
Nope, no IPC improvement there.

 

[dma0991]

It can be both a necessity and a business tactic. We're getting a platform that is built from the ground up to support that particular processor and any excess baggage is thrown out. AMD's method was good to a certain extent had their CPU improved with every iteration. I'm not quite sure as to why Intel is going from LGA1156 -> LGA1155 -> LGA1150 but it could be that there were unused pins in LGA1156 that was deemed unnecessary.

Those companies that produce parts that are required for a complete rig are definitely happy with Intel's method since users would only be able to use their motherboard for a minimum of 2 years. As with AMD's method, motherboard manufacturers would only have users who would replace their motherboard if it is broken.

AMD used to have the advantage of the lower end of the market but a Pentium SB rig is pretty cheap relative to performance compared to AMD's current offerings. Since SB, Intel has conquered the low, mid and high's of the market.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Are you completely forgetting the fact that LGA775 started out with Pentium IV and ended with the Core 2 Quad QX9770
Nope, no IPC improvement there.

Pent 4 didn't start on socket 775.

Pent 4 was on three different desktop sockets

 

[Zorander]

Pent 4 didn't start on socket 775.

Pent 4 was on three different desktop sockets

I think he meant to say the P4 was the first CPU family that began using the LGA775.

 

[sm625]

I get the 2011 and 1366 socket type change. But the 1156 to 1155, I think that's just milking it. Is there any rational reason for there to be a new socket?