CPU or NB limiting FSB speeds on 8RDA+?

[SpideyCU]

This is an offshoot of a thread I had in CPU/Processors and Overclocking, but the issue has evolved and is different, so I thought I'd bring it here so all those familiar with the 8RDA+ and its nuances could offer their opinion. Quick rundown:

AthlonXP 2100+ CPU
Kingston PC2700 RAM

CPU @ 13*133 MHz (default), RAM @ 166 MHz - stable in both Prime95 and all heavy gaming applications, doesn't even think of hiccuping

CPU @ 10.5*166 MHz, RAM @ 166 MHz - stable in Prime95, but crashes will occur in BF1942 and War3 randomly

The processor is a 0301 stepping, but that's probably irrelevent. My question is, as stated in the title...could the processor be my limitation here even though I'm running it at about the same speed in these two cases? Or, as I suspect, is the northbridge on the motherboard getting too hot? This might explain why Prime95 has no issues, but the games (which heavily use the integrated sound and networking features) give me errors and crash when nothing has changed but the FSB speed. Upping the Vcore (I haven't gone above 1.7v) hasn't made these issues go away. Obviously at 13*166 it isn't stable.

 

[Psychosylph]

Are you overclocking your video card? What are you using for memory? Have you tried memtest? I would doubt that your board would have trouble with 166FSB...

 

[Kung Lau]

In my limited O/Cing experience, I've found my older memory was the culprit in raising FSB values.

The MB definitely should do 166fsb, depending on revision. My 8RDA+ does 200 without blinking (C1 northbridge)

I would lean towards the ram. Put a high quality stick and see what it does.


Based on all I read on these boards, I bought a Corsair XMS 3200 stick and have np going to 200FSB and above.
I suspect you'd experience similar results with the 2700 speed version if decided to get it. ( I would recommend the 3200 for future headroom, if the cpu IS the limited factor, as the Bartons can do it easily)

 

[Megatomic]

SpideyCU, how's it going? My opinion on this is that your memory is what is killing your stability. I had the same CPU (same week, too) and the same rev. 8RDA+ and I was unable to hit 166MHz FSB or above until I got high performance memory. I started with Kingston ValueRam PC2700 which wouldn't even run in dual channel at 133MHz FSB and then went to 1 x 512MB Corsair XMS PC3200. With that memory I was able to hit 197MHz FSB with 100% stability. I was limited at that point by a low Vdd (NB supply voltage).

I next moved to 2 x 512MB HyperX PC2700 and I can go as high as 185MHz FSB with 100% stability. In DCDDR mode. At 5-2-2-2.0 100% synch with CPU FSB. I really do think you'd be a lot better off with some higher quality memory.

But that is just my opinion.

 

[SpideyCU]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Psychosylph - I used to OC the vid card, but I put it back to stock speeds about a week ago to make sure it wasn't the culprit. The memory is two stick of 512 MB ValueRAM. As many know the 8RDA+, along with other nForce2 boards, didn't like this particular batch (along with some Crucial), so I RMA'd my RAM recently. The two new sticks I got from Kingston seem to be better behaved than the old ones. I haven't tried memtest yet, I'll see if I can find the CD I burned here before making a new one.

Kung Lau - I'd wonder though, if the memory was the culprit, why wouldn't problems show up when I ran it async at 166? Why would it only show up if I raised the FSB to 166?

Megatomic - Not particularly well. I'm wondering if'n I shouldn't save myself the trouble and sell this RAM to someone who uses a non-NF2 mobo. But then again, I haven't narrowed down the culprit yet. And since Prime95 will run without error (last batch it ran for 13 hours with nary a problem), I'm somewhat doubtful that memtest86 will show anything.

But here's fun news: since I started testing this issue two days ago, I've had 3 random reboots in the middle of heavy gaming, even though I'm back at 133 sync now! I'm wondering if (a) the crashes I had previously when overclocking might've corrupted some files on the hard drive associated with these games, or (b) the addition of a SCSI controller, SCSI drive, and RAID controller are too much for my power supply. I'm going to see if I can eliminate the former by reinstalling Windows.

And so the fun continues...

 

[Megatomic]

What power supply do you have? And I'm still suspicious of your RAM. Too bad you don't have access to some better RAM for testing purposes...

 

[SpideyCU]

Well, I found the source of the random reboots. One of the sticks was bad (even worse than usual). It failed memtest86. I removed it and the random reboots are gone!

...
...

However...

I still can't run at 166 MHz! I STILL get program crashes. So I'm heading out to BestBuy tonight and picking up two sticks of HyperX PC3500. PC3500 is overkill, but all the "good" RAM is above $90 anyhow, so I'm hoping this will fix my problems.

Megatomic, now I'll be able to test with better quality RAM. And if it doesn't work, well, BB isn't that far, I can simply return it. It's not a hassle like when returning an online order.

 

[pspada]

That's why I went directly from PC2100 to OCZ Performance Series PC3200. It does 400Mhz easy, and I've had it posting at up to 494. I figure there are enough other components to cause problems, good memory keeps many problems from occuring in the first place, saving mucho time.

 

[Corporate Thug]

northbridge doesnt become a huge factor until your over 200 mhz fsb

 

[SpideyCU]

Well, I was really hoping it wouldn't be true, but it is. That ValueRAM just flat-out doesn't like nForce2 boards, no matter how many times I RMA this sucker.

With the new HyperX PC3500 I bought yesterday evening, I can push to higher speeds just fine. I haven't tried over 180 MHz yet because I'm still trying to dance the line between how high I want to push the FSB, where I should keep the multiplier at, and where I'm comfortable leaving the Vcore running.

I guess the question now is...what do I do with this PC2700 ValueRAM? Sell it to someone who doesn't have an nForce2? Or just sell it, but tell them to treat it as PC2100, since it has no issues running at 133 MHz?

 

[pspada]

I'll buy it from you, cheap.

 

[Megatomic]

SpideyCU, sorry you had to find out the hard way about the Kingston ValueRam. I documented this in painful detail in the main Epox 8RDA(+) thread a few months ago. Myself and a few others all had the same issues you just experienced. And then there was the guys with the Crucial PC2700 that had the same problems. It was an epidemic.

Oh well, I'm glad you got some good stuff to put in your system. Now you'll be able to have some fun.

 

[SpideyCU]

Problem was, I bought it around the same time as all of you - it just took me that much longer to finally get rid of it after all these RMAs and such didn't pan out. If I'd purchased this memory, say, last month, I could've called myself an idiot for not heeding everyone's horror stories.

 

[pspada]

If it'll make you feel better, we'll call you an idiot, so you don't have to do it yourself?

 

[Gerbil333]

Originally posted by: SpideyCU
And since Prime95 will run without error (last batch it ran for 13 hours with nary a problem), I'm somewhat doubtful that memtest86 will show anything.

That's very wrong. Prime95 doesn't test the memory worth a crap. It uses a lot of processing power, but works with small amounts of data (about 1024kb or less). The memory isn't stressed very hard. memtest86 will really test it. So, you should try that.

I guess you learned that the hard way though That's why I use nice RAM: Corsair TWINX3200LLPT

 

[SpideyCU]

Originally posted by: Gerbil333

Originally posted by: SpideyCU
And since Prime95 will run without error (last batch it ran for 13 hours with nary a problem), I'm somewhat doubtful that memtest86 will show anything.

That's very wrong. Prime95 doesn't test the memory worth a crap. It uses a lot of processing power, but works with small amounts of data (about 1024kb or less). The memory isn't stressed very hard. memtest86 will really test it. So, you should try that.

I guess you learned that the hard way though That's why I use nice RAM: Corsair TWINX3200LLPT

It may not put the RAM through the ringer, but since you can specify how much of your physical RAM you want used in the "torture test", it should be using that much. If there are problems with the RAM and it regurgitates bad numbers, Prime95 should notice.

At any rate, I'm no longer relying on Prime95 to do my stability testing - War3 games with 11 computer opponents and myself set to "observer" take up to 3 hours to finish - I can check in every few hours to see if it's crashed or not. Much more applicable too, since that's what I don't want crashing on me! (thus leaving my allies in the sh*tter, being forced to control my army)

 

[Gerbil333]

Yea, I use Prime95 as an initial stability tester. I just run it for a few hours, and if that's ok then I proceed to some real testing. I have the computer host a LAN game of Tribes 2 with several bots and observe. I let it run overnight. If that passes, then I know it's very stable, because Tribes 2 seems to crash REAL fast if there are any problems.