CPU gets HOT when stressed (no overclock)

[imported_stev]

A year ago, I upgraded from a Athlon 64 3500+ to a Athlon 64 X2 4600+ (Socket 939). I used the stock cooler and I never overclocked. I noticed that when I heavily taxed the CPU the core temp readout in SpeedFan would start to climb to 60-70 C, while I rarely, if ever, hit 50 C with the 3500+. I was worried about this so I bought some Arctic Silver and applied it as specified at the company's website. There was no noticeable temperature change. Anyway, I let it be because I was too busy to use my machine for anything taxing like gaming.

Yesterday, I decided to play Orange Box (specifically, Portal). The temps rose into the 60s and 70s as usual and suddenly the entire computer shut down after an hour. Now, this might have been a GPU issue as its temps were also in the 70s, but right now I'm trying to deal with the CPU.

Today, I ran two instances of Prime95 Torture Test (In-place). Within 5-7 minutes, both cores were at 75 C! I shut it down after that because I was worried that I would damage the CPU. Is this normal? My case has a 120 mm exhaust fan running at 1500 RPM, a stock heatsink fan, and a 80 mm intake fan in front of the hard drive. This seems like a reasonable amount of cooling. Any idea what's going on here?

UPDATE: I updated the motherboard drivers for the CPU and now the temperatures appear to be lower now. However, a few minutes of two instances of Prime95 running still gets the core temps up to 80 C and the other sensor relating to the CPUs, as given by my motherboard's software, nears 65 C. AMD says the CPU should shut down at 65 C, but I don't know if that's the core temp or the other reading. It seems to me that the driver is misreporting the temperature, otherwise I would have had it shut down on me already.

My motherboard is a MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra in case anyone is wondering. The search continues!

UPDATE 2: I'm now dealing with AMD and it has prompted me to ask a more general question in this thread. It gets weirder and weirder...

 

[Markfw]

for a non-oc'ed chip that sounds hot. I would get a better cooler. XP90's are probably abundant now, I have 2 I am not using anymore.

 

[imported_stev]

One more thing that I feel like an idiot about, but it's probably important. I tried a Prime95 stress test previous to the one in my original post and while I wasn't paying attention, the temps of both cores rose to ~110 C according to Core Temp. It seems to me that I should have seen smoke coming out of the unit by then, but the computer was still running fine. So, maybe the temperature sensors are inaccurate?

 

[imported_stev]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
for a non-oc'ed chip that sounds hot. I would get a better cooler. XP90's are probably abundant now, I have 2 I am not using anymore.

Shouldn't a stock cooler be able to cool a CPU at stock speeds?

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: stev

Originally posted by: Markfw900
for a non-oc'ed chip that sounds hot. I would get a better cooler. XP90's are probably abundant now, I have 2 I am not using anymore.

Shouldn't a stock cooler be able to cool a CPU at stock speeds?

Well, it should, but they still run warm with a stock cooler. I haven;t run a stock cooler ever, so I don't know the temps for sure. For a few bucks, it would be a good investment IMO.

 

[zorrt]

Why bother goin aftermarket when you don't need to.

Your temps are very high for stock cooling IMO. You should get better than that.

How are your mounts and clips? Did you lock it down? Is it sitting flush? Have you tried the hsf that you had on the 3500 to see if it helps? I know the hsf that came with the 3000+ is virtually same as the hsf that comes with the 5200+ x2 aside from the 4pin fan so it should work identically.

One way to see if it sitting flush now that you have the artic silver on is to remove the heatsink. There should be a very very thin layer on artic silver remaining as the excess should be squashed away towards the out edge of the hs/cpu. If there seems to be an excess of artic silver still on the cpu that would means you're not getting enough contact between the heatsink and cpu.

 

[imported_stev]

Originally posted by: zorrt
Why bother goin aftermarket when you don't need to.

Exactly

Your temps are very high for stock cooling IMO. You should get better than that.

That's what I thought and that's what I got with the 3500+. I've also contacted AMD about this to see what they have to say.

How are your mounts and clips? Did you lock it down? Is it sitting flush?

Excellent condition, yes, and yes. In fact, I removed the HSF today and found the arctic silver coverage was good. I cleaned everything up, reapplied the arctic silver and then re-seated the CPU and the HSF. Temperatures were similar after all of that.

Have you tried the hsf that you had on the 3500 to see if it helps? I know the hsf that came with the 3000+ is virtually same as the hsf that comes with the 5200+ x2 aside from the 4pin fan so it should work identically.

I sold the old CPU and HSF a year ago. Also, it didn't have the fancy heatpipes and larger heatsink that the 4600 HSF has so I suspect it may have even been worse.

One way to see if it sitting flush now that you have the artic silver on is to remove the heatsink. There should be a very very thin layer on artic silver remaining as the excess should be squashed away towards the out edge of the hs/cpu. If there seems to be an excess of artic silver still on the cpu that would means you're not getting enough contact between the heatsink and cpu.

Yup, that's why I took a look. The arctic silver was very thin and evenly distributed in a 1-inch-diameter circle in the center of the CPU.

Thanks for your responses, let me know if anything else comes to mind.

 

[lyssword]

also, not entirely sure, but if ther's a big dust buildup that might be contributing to heat (worse airflow)

 

[imported_stev]

Originally posted by: lyssword
also, not entirely sure, but if ther's a big dust buildup that might be contributing to heat (worse airflow)

I vacuumed it out a week ago. It wasn't too bad and it didn't seem to change things. I also thought it might be because I had the case in my desk, which is partially closed in the back (open 8 inches in the bottom), but out of the desk and even with the case open, it's doing the same thing.

 

[VirtualLarry]

What type of heatsink are we talking about here. The all-aluminum block, or the 4-heatpipe version that AMD ships with their opterons? If it's the all-aluminum block, then you need to upgrade the heatsink. If it's a heatpipe model, then I don't know what the problem is, it should be able to keep those temps under control.

 

[imported_stev]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
What type of heatsink are we talking about here. The all-aluminum block, or the 4-heatpipe version that AMD ships with their opterons? If it's the all-aluminum block, then you need to upgrade the heatsink. If it's a heatpipe model, then I don't know what the problem is, it should be able to keep those temps under control.

The heatsink has 4 of what appear to be copper heatpipes, so it is probably the same or similar to what they provide with the opterons.

 

[imported_stev]

I updated the original post!

 

[Regalk]

Why not feel the heatsink and be sure (as close to the base as possible)? At 70C you should have to remove your fingers almost instantly. I believe that either the MSI board sensor is incorrect or the Heatsink is improperly installed - tilted or uneven. Take the Motherboard out of the case and hold it up to abright light and see if you can see a space between the cpu and heatsink or try lapping it.
Remember too much ASilver is not good.
I use the same Heatsink on a 3200+ on an A8N-E and have it up to 2800 at 1.55volts - barely gets over 55C at load.
Is Airflow in your case good? In at bottom and out at rear top.
Fan blowing down on cpu heatsink..

 

[zorrt]

Only other thing I can think of are: Have you check your voltage for CPU, might have cocked up and increased itself? Does the CPU fan speed ramp up? You should be able to hear it or speedfan should be able to tell you. I use the latest beta of speedfan for temp readings, coretemp is good too. Not sure if faulty CPU causes high temps or not though so I can't comment on that.

I installed the stock hsf from a 3000+ onto a 939 4200+ x2 cpu. No problems there even if there is no heatpipe (fans do ramp up like crazy though). Not sure why everyone jumps straight to upgrading to a better heatsink the second they hear of high temps. Only time I can agree on upgrading from stock HSF is when you want lower temps cuz you feel stock temps arent low enough, noisy, or when overclocking. However most times the stock HSF that comes with most hardware are sufficient on stock if you can bear the noise.

Regalk, the temp reading is not a reading of your heatsink. Even if the core is 70c doesnt mean the heatsink is gonna be 70c or maybe anywhere near that. My e6750 loads at 50degrees, heatsink feels cool as, even on the base. Regardless, if the heatsink is hot to touch means airflow is the issue but at least you know contact is good. Warm to touch isn't too bad but airflow increase might help a bit. Cold to touch when you know theres very little airflow means contact issue.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Regalk
Why not feel the heatsink and be sure (as close to the base as possible)? At 70C you should have to remove your fingers almost instantly.

What are temps in bios?
What are idle temps and fan rpm's? cpu usage in speedfan?
Does the hsf fan increase speed with cpu load? should go >2000rpm at max.

I have an MSI Diamond+ 939, 4400 10%OC which idles <30c and <50c at load in a p182. mb <40c. When mb was in a LianLi (btx orientation), mb ~50c. The hsf is the stock heat pipe version - surprisingly good.

Also have a biostar 690g, am2 4600+2.4ghz which bios reports ~30c but in vista, speedfan (and biostar temp util) reports 60-70c. Exchanged stock hsf with one that has heat pipes which are cool to touch at idle in both bios and vista - meaning ~30c. Haven't figured out the discrepancy yet.

 

[Regalk]

Originally posted by: zorrt
Regalk, the temp reading is not a reading of your heatsink. Even if the core is 70c doesnt mean the heatsink is gonna be 70c or maybe anywhere near that. My e6750 loads at 50degrees, heatsink feels cool as, even on the base. Regardless, if the heatsink is hot to touch means airflow is the issue but at least you know contact is good. Warm to touch isn't too bad but airflow increase might help a bit. Cold to touch when you know theres very little airflow means contact issue.

I know that but what I am saying is if the HS is hot then you know that the CPU is really hot. But if cool then OK. Generally if heat transfers from the cpu to the heatsink efficiently then the HS should get a tad warm especially those copper ones which release the heat slower than aluminium based ones.
ANyway just a thought.
In the older days i use to stick a thermistor at the base (under HS) - these days most MBs give a fairly good read out (other than the really cheap MBs)

 

[MarcVenice]

Open the case, place BIG household fan on your PC, run orthos again, see if it helps ... My 2 cents ...

 

[imported_stev]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Open the case, place BIG household fan on your PC, run orthos again, see if it helps ... My 2 cents ...

I placed a 280 mm house fan up to the open case right in front of the case, directed at the CPU, and turned it on to the highest setting. Within a few minutes of running two instances of Prime95 (I know, I need to download Orthos), CoreTemp was getting into the 65-70 C temp range.

I'm now dealing with AMD and it has prompted me to ask a more general question in this thread. It gets weirder and weirder...

 

[zephyrprime]

Reseat the heatsink. Reapply thermal material.

 

[imported_stev]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Reseat the heatsink. Reapply thermal material.

Did that a couple days ago. No change.

 

[zephyrprime]

Hold it against a straight edge to see if it is really flat. You may have to lap it.

 

[Killrose]

What voltage are you feeding the CPU? maybe you should drop it below what the motherboard is reporting, which may be wrong. Lower it and then prime it to check stability.

 

[imported_stev]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Hold it against a straight edge to see if it is really flat. You may have to lap it.

Next time I take it apart, I will closely inspect the HSF and CPU to see if they are flat. I don't know why I didn't do it already!