Question CPU for Surface Laptop 3.

[LikeLinus]

So I went ahead and ordered a Surface Laptop 3 with the Ryzen cpu, 16gb of ram and 512mb SSD. But I'm seeing conflicting reports about the Intel CPU and Ryzen. Microsoft is saying it's the "fastest mobile CPU/GPU on the marketing". But then some articles talk about the speed advantage of the i7 and it appears to be the better all around cpu, but maybe not as great as the Ryzen GPU. Battery life on both is said to be the same. So I'm not taking in to account the 25w vs 15w.

Plus, from what I've seen, the business version is strictly Intel. Now I'm on the fence and just wondered what everyone's opinion is.

FYI: This will not be for gaming. It's simply for light (travel editing, review and backing up 4K material and photos) video production and graphics. I currently have a MacBook Pro (2017) and a Surface Pro 4. Love them both and they are great, but I want to try the Surface Laptop 3 for fun. Love new toys, guilty as charged

The other advantage of the business machine is they go to 32GB and 1TB SSD. But my primary concern is the CPU and if I should order an Intel one just to be safe. I can always cancel one of them.

 

[thesmokingman]

Call AMD investor relations? Call any sellside bank that has a buy rating on AMD?

For all the tech intelligence in this thread, when you guys start spilling over into financials many hit a brick wall. Financials are my livelihood.

Yea, NO PROOF. Not one link to substantiate anything... not surprised.

 

[liahos1]

Yea, NO PROOF. Not one link to substantiate anything... not surprised.

like i said. JUST CALL AMD YOURSELF. Rather than putting me down and keeping your head in the sand. Why dont you go figure it out if you dont believe me?

Press Releases

ir.amd.com

Laura Graves
AMD Investor Relations
408-749-5467
laura.graves@amd.com

There is AMD investor relations contact for you from the link above.

 

[thesmokingman]

like i said. JUST CALL AMD YOURSELF. Rather than putting me down and keeping your head in the sand. Why dont you go figure it out if you dont believe me?

Press Releases

ir.amd.com

Laura Graves
AMD Investor Relations
408-749-5467
laura.graves@amd.com

There is AMD investor relations contact for you from the link above.

You are the one spouting crap about how AMD probably paid MS to use their CPU. When asked for proof, you cite their gross margins and try to hide behind assumptions w/o proof. Can you troll harder, lmao?

 

[liahos1]

You are the one spouting crap about how AMD probably paid MS to use their CPU. When asked for proof, you cite their gross margins and try to hide behind assumptions w/o proof. Can you troll harder, lmao?

I said selling at cost. Do you understand the difference? I owe you no proof. Im not feeding you fish my friend. Im giving you a fishing pole. Go call AMD and stop harassing me.

 

[thesmokingman]

I said selling at cost. Do you understand the difference? I owe you no proof. Im not feeding you fish my friend. Im giving you a fishing pole. Go call AMD and stop harassing me.

That's a good one. Being asked to prove what you write is harrassment. Maybe you should stop doing what you're doing. In other words stop BSing us.

 

[liahos1]

That's a good one. Being asked to prove what you write is harrassment. Maybe you should stop doing what you're doing. In other words stop BSing us.

Again, I gave you the details you needed to go prove it to yourself. I'm not doing your homework for you buddy. Its funny that you're even questioning this. Have you listened to any AMD earnings calls over the last two years? They are pretty explicit about it.

Do you ask people on this forum to redacted too because you can't be bothered to do it yourself? Rather than harrass me. Why dont you educate yourself.




Profanity is not allowed in the tech forums.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[DrMrLordX]

AMD doesn't make NIC's

Intel sure does. If you want Wifi6 you have to go Intel, since I think every 802.11ax wireless NIC out there on the consumer market right now is an AX200 or rebranded AX200. I have one and it drives me nuts. Finally got it working. That's actually one compelling reason not to go with Wifi 6 yet is that the AX200 can be kinda buggy, and Intel apparently doesn't like supporting it.

 

[thesmokingman]

Again, I gave you the details you needed to go prove it to yourself. I'm not doing your homework for you buddy. Its funny that you're even questioning this. Have you listened to any AMD earnings calls over the last two years? They are pretty explicit about it.

Do you ask people on this forum to redacted too because you can't be bothered to do it yourself? Rather than harrass me. Why dont you educate yourself.

It's surprising how much of a clown you are smh.





Insults are not allowed in the tech forums.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[liahos1]

It's surprising how much of a clown you are smh.

ok bud. thanks for the input.

 

[Abwx]

But let me be clear. The GM AMD gets from both Sony and MSFT are the lowest in their portfolio. Basically, the console biz is low gm

Xbox is low margin even for Microsoft, now APUs are a different business, and Mst doesnt need a low price given the Surface price, or are you telling us that they make the same kind of margin as with the Xbox..?.

 

[esquared]

Liahos1 and the smokingman. Stop it now or you will be issued additional infractions.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[zinfamous]

Why go there? AMD already have a fantastic relationship with MS. Not sure you realize they make the Xbox chips...

I can imagine that AMD unloaded these dies at a decent price anyway. I don't think they had much of a market for these highly-binned Picasso dies, so someone was willing to buy them, and especially with the relationship with MSoft, it was already probably part of the negotiation to stay in the next console, which as I understand it, they are also making an XBox-specific solution (like with Sony, right?).

I do think that the first 2 Mobile Ryzen chips aren't really AMD's serious offering in the mobile space, but this gives them a nice preview for what to expect with them, improvements assured, when it comes to the high-end ultrabook world.

I still can't see this as anything but a win for AMD, even though obvious compromises are obvious. ....the modem, that still bugs me, lol. ...and since no one was really expecting this product to exist, only 2 weeks ago, right? It makes me wonder if AMD has something bigger planned sooner than anyone expected with Renoir?

 

[moinmoin]

Yes and the GM AMD gets from MSFT on their xbox APUs are the lowest in their portfolio.

But let me be clear. The GM AMD gets from both Sony and MSFT are the lowest in their portfolio. Basically, the console biz is low gm

While that's factually correct (@liahos1, we regularly have threads on earning calls with discussion about the GM), it's the most brain dead (but sadly prevalent) investor take on AMD's whole semi custom business. The whole point of the semi custom business is that it allows AMD to essentially outsource whole parts of their research and development budget, at the cost of profiting less from the products resulting from said partnerships. Of course GM is far less with a setup like that (especially at the age of the current console generation), but AMD likely wouldn't have made it through the bulldozer years without it.

 

[krumme]

While that's factually correct (@liahos1, we regularly have threads on earning calls with discussion about the GM), it's the most brain dead (but sadly prevalent) investor take on AMD's whole semi custom business. The whole point of the semi custom business is that it allows AMD to essentially outsource whole parts of their research and development budget, at the cost of profiting less from the products resulting from said partnerships. Of course GM is far less with a setup like that (especially at the age of the current console generation), but AMD likely wouldn't have made it through the bulldozer years without it.

It's simply risk vs reward balance.
Dont know. As you say we have been over it for years. I dont understand how people can talk margins that is a number among many and pretend they know just a little about it and not know the connection between risk and reward. I mean it's economic page one.

 

[liahos1]

While that's factually correct (@liahos1, we regularly have threads on earning calls with discussion about the GM), it's the most brain dead (but sadly prevalent) investor take on AMD's whole semi custom business. The whole point of the semi custom business is that it allows AMD to essentially outsource whole parts of their research and development budget, at the cost of profiting less from the products resulting from said partnerships. Of course GM is far less with a setup like that (especially at the age of the current console generation), but AMD likely wouldn't have made it through the bulldozer years without it.

Braindead. It's the lowest gross margin business period. That's a factual statement even you agree with.

Yes I understand the dynamic that they needed the console biz to pay the bills back in the darker days. But that wasn't the point. It's the lowest gross margin biz. Period. They continue to do it despite them doing better with Zen.

I invest for a living. At a large institution and I've been doing it for over 10 years. Not really here to listen to you call me braindead. Check yourself.

 

[moinmoin]

Braindead. It's the lowest gross margin business period. That's a factual statement even you agree with.

Yes I understand the dynamic that they needed the console biz to pay the bills back in the darker days. But that wasn't the point. It's the lowest gross margin biz. Period. They continue to do it despite them doing better with Zen.

I invest for a living. At a large institution and I've been doing it for over 10 years. Not really here to listen to you call me braindead. Check yourself.

I didn't call you brain dead. As you yourself noticed I didn't even disagree with you up to now.

But since you made it personal, maybe you got a good answer why "they continue to do it despite them doing better with Zen"?

The easy answer is that development and research are essentially fixed cost you got to pay regardless whether you do well or badly in the market, you got to do plenty of R&D to even have a chance to do well in a fast moving market. Semi custom business was AMD's answer to how to keep R&D from stopping while faring abysmally in the market, without that Zen would likely not have happened. Semi custom business is still a good answer for getting a lot of additional R&D done without which AMD couldn't directly take on far bigger competitors in Intel and Nvidia like they are doing now.

Including that in the simplified quarterly GM calculation risks the company's long term health for better quarterly numbers on short term. No investor should be interested in that.

 

[LikeLinus]

Guys, my post was in jest to make a point.

 

[moinmoin]

we regularly have threads on earning calls with discussion about the GM

@thesmokingman this part was intended to be directed at you.

 

[jpiniero]

NBC has a few benchmarks of the Surface with Ryzen 5 hidden a bit in their configurable benchmarks. The Cinebench R15 ST score is not good but the MT score is very good. Doesn't seem like they had any gaming benchmarks.

 

[DrMrLordX]

they are also making an XBox-specific solution (like with Sony, right?).

Yes. And it should be quite an exciting product.

I do think that the first 2 Mobile Ryzen chips aren't really AMD's serious offering in the mobile space,

No. These are essentially 2018's products in 2019 packaging. AMD has played that game with their mobile lineup since 2017 which is an about-face from what they did previously.

 

[zinfamous]

like i said. JUST CALL AMD YOURSELF. Rather than putting me down and keeping your head in the sand. Why dont you go figure it out if you dont believe me?

Press Releases

ir.amd.com

Laura Graves
AMD Investor Relations
408-749-5467
laura.graves@amd.com

There is AMD investor relations contact for you from the link above.

I mean, you could just as easily detail the conversation you had with her, right? Why not?

It is incumbent on the one making claims to support their claims--demanding that others do so is poor playground theater. No one plays those games past the age of 12 (Well, they shouldn't).

You state things "as if obvious to people as smart as me." Maybe back off a bit on that attitude and simply support your claims?

 

[Topweasel]

Call AMD investor relations? Call any sellside bank that has a buy rating on AMD?

For all the tech intelligence in this thread, when you guys start spilling over into financials many hit a brick wall. Financials are my livelihood.

But let me be clear. The GM AMD gets from both Sony and MSFT are the lowest in their portfolio. Basically, the console biz is low gm

It's only really low for the last year (because console sales had wained) and most of the money they got was package development deals. So heading into 2014/2017/2020. It's a low margin product with large development costs. So the money they get is always front loaded but its huge and that money is basically free development costs for future products (like the working theory that Navi and more specifically Navi 2 was basically bankrolled by Sony).

But that says more about their portfolio. They have their CPU team, their GPU team, and semi custom. That's basically it. Semi custom will always be third in profits. But its value to the company is pretty large. Hell its item number 1 on why AMD is still here.

 

[krumme]

I dont know if we look at margins differently. Ofc. If you have better alternatives doing semi custom is stupid from a business perspective. You will certainly have lowish margins vs traditional cpu margins and frankly next gen consoles is at risk each time.
I run a small business in an entirely different sector and always prioritize to turn down those kind of sub contracts even if they are steady income and more revenue. The best profit is if you sell directly to end consumers and evolve your own brand. But you have to be the big fish in the pond to do so. Smaller players will have to accept it to survive. Like AMD did.
That said I think amd culture and competences fit for semicustom. I mean nv is fantastic at running a brand, selling and developing software, but as a buyer I would prefer to enter into a relationship with amd. No matter how good nv is I simply trust amd more. Less noise. More predictably. Engineering above brand.

 

[LikeLinus]

I'm not interested in a back and forth. I've been thought that and this seems to be a "protect your own" at all cost mentality. What I will say, The Surface Laptop itself is pretty freaking awesome. I've got a late model MacBook Pro that I consider the benchmark. The SL3 (Surface Laptop 3) is similar in construction. I actually like the keyboard better on the SL3 than the one on my MBP. I like the touchpad on the MBP better than any laptop I've ever used. That said, the SL3 is close, but it's a bit smaller and I actually enjoy the overly large touchpad of the MBP. Personal preference.

The screen on the SL3 is outstanding. The MBP may is probably a bit better, but it's hard to tell side-by-side. I guess my biggest regret is that the SL3 doesn't come with some sort of higher end CPU/GPU. You can get a MBP with an 8 core i9, but the 4c i7 is the highest you can get on the SL3. I guess you could say they are aiming at two different markets, but I just wish I could get a similar spec laptop. I Love my MBP and I'm SO glad I have until Jan. 2020 to return both of these. Not that I won't keep one, but I've seen the reports of a 16" MBP coming in the next month or so. We shall see.

Keeping the MBP out of the equation, I would absolutely buy an SL3 in a heartbeat. If you can afford a higher end laptop, this is the one to get.

I've got Creative Cloud installed on both and I'll make my ultimate decision on which to keep ASAP. Once I see how it performs with After Effects and Media Encoder, I'll make my final decision. Battery life seems similar enough not to care. Plus, I have my Surface Pro 6 to use for the mundane things.

 

[jpiniero]

Microsoft Surface Laptop 3: AMD Ryzen 7 vs. Intel Core i7

Which chip is best suited to Microsoft's beautiful 15in laptop?

hexus.net

So somebody actually reviewed the two. The biggest difference is of course the single thread (which Icelake is much faster) and the battery life is also quite better on the Icelake model despite load power consumption being similar. Both seem like they were set at 25W TDP.

I suspect a Renoir model would do much better than Picasso, especially in gaming.