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Covid is slamming India, a worst nightmare

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,158
3,560
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You left the key off of that map.
Interesting to see how much it (inversely) correlates with Trump votes.

View attachment 43863
I tried to get the key but failed ... guess I could have grabbed a screen shot and embedded that. Basically, it's the lightest color being 49% and the darkest being over 90%.

Edit: I put that key in there... thanks.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,066
3,592
126
If this Orange wise and beautiful woman (sorry mods, this guy pisses me off so much), had taken this seriously, everything should have been shutdown for 2-3 weeks to get this thing under control.
Don't know about you, but my city did "shutdown" for weeks in March and April 2020. Was far less traffic in the streets for a month.

But there is a hell of a lot more to it than one man. A US President does not have the power to "shutdown" the country like that. People have to volunteer it, all the way through the chain from Governors, to local officials, and individuals. Look at vaccines, Trump promoted them as his solution, his triumph. Trump tells people to get them. Did they?

The anti-vax map should be a very clear indicator that the US never faced the problem of a single person. Our stupidity is a movement, an entire political party of people who attack science and live in an alt-reality where the most important thing is fluffing a fiction. Theirs is a fiction where COVID is a hoax and the Government is an enemy.

A country with such an affliction cannot properly respond. To COVID or anything else that imposes a challenge upon us.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
9,130
3,113
136
That doesn't make it invalid. Did they ever "adjust" the numbers to include the under count. Those uncounted are still part of today's tally.
As time goes on the undercount becomes a smaller percentage, and I'd need substantial evidence to believe the undercut was still anywhere near 6-10x.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,828
432
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I tried to get the key but failed ... guess I could have grabbed a screen shot and embedded that. Basically, it's the lightest color being 49% and the darkest being over 90%.

Edit: I put that key in there... thanks.
It's too late now, but federal and state governments had time to prepare for vaccination campaigns and seemed to let the arrival of the mRNA vaccines creep up on us. Really, the CDC printed millions of vaccination cards for us to document our doses? I know people object to online databases, but it should have been a centralized database from the get-go. Same deal with contact tracing, why have individual states release apps instead of a national system?

Anyway, more to the point, there was a relatively simple way to break through a lot of vaccine hesitancy. Instead of all the "stimulus" money that was doled out to adults, we should have paid everyone to get vaccinated. I'm not saying the whole $1400, but somewhere in the neighborhood of $300-$600 would have done it. I know a few states are now trying to incentivize young people to get vaccinated, but it should have been universal from the jump. A lot of vaccine hesitancy would evaporate when people have Benjamins dangled in front of them. Administration could be a little tricky, as not everyone files a tax return.

I realize some ethicists say this is a terrible look that we have to bribe Americans when most of the world has no access to vaccines. But we recently "printed" billions of dollars to send to many working families that are not currently affected economically, so carving out a chunk of that to boost vaccinations would have been the better play. We can all cringe about the optics, but I haven't heard of another way to get us to 75% vaccinated.

As time goes on the undercount becomes a smaller percentage, and I'd need substantial evidence to believe the undercut was still anywhere near 6-10x.
I don't have to tell you this, but 10x seems mathematically implausible. ;) I find the current CDC estimate (3.5:1) reasonable, except they have always modeled a low percentage of asymptomatic cases. That doesn't seem to align well with what we know about SARS-CoV-2 transmission.
 
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obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
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Fascinating map, but the delineations seem weird. Is it really that you have 90%+ somewhere in Colorado or Minnesota, but then you go down the street in to WY or ND and it drops to <50%? Some of these states look suspiciously uniform (esp WY and ND). And bordering counties having such huge differences, some of those people are neighbors..

We can only rely on the fact that most of these Trumper nutjobs rarely travel (or marry..) outside their zip code, or family area. If they want to die of covid, fine go ahead. As longs as they stay local and don't infect too many others with redneck-mutant-supercovid..
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,536
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Fascinating map, but the delineations seem weird. Is it really that you have 90%+ somewhere in Colorado or Minnesota, but then you go down the street in to WY or ND and it drops to <50%? Some of these states look suspiciously uniform (esp WY and ND). And bordering counties having such huge differences, some of those people are neighbors..

We can only rely on the fact that most of these Trumper nutjobs rarely travel (or marry..) outside their zip code, or family area. If they want to die of covid, fine go ahead. As longs as they stay local and don't infect too many others with redneck-mutant-supercovid..
For the uniformity, remember the key. That means the whole state is <50% intending on vaccinating.

For Colorado, here's a map:
1620071220679.png
So, yeah, the population centers which tend to lean leftward intend on vaccinating. The boonies that tend to lean... in another direction, intend on not vaccinating.

Pretty par for the course.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
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Fascinating map, but the delineations seem weird. Is it really that you have 90%+ somewhere in Colorado or Minnesota, but then you go down the street in to WY or ND and it drops to <50%? Some of these states look suspiciously uniform (esp WY and ND). And bordering counties having such huge differences, some of those people are neighbors..

We can only rely on the fact that most of these Trumper nutjobs rarely travel (or marry..) outside their zip code, or family area. If they want to die of covid, fine go ahead. As longs as they stay local and don't infect too many others with redneck-mutant-supercovid..
LOL never heard of anyone refer to a bordering state as "down the street." As Osiris explains, even adjacent counties can be far apart politically and the huge differences you're referencing are in the vicinity of 20-30%. Not weird at all. Even deep blue California is somewhat bifurcated between coastal counties and moderate/conservative inland and rural counties.

You're also underestimating the reality of viral transmission, which doesn't stop at borders. Although I somewhat agree the anti-vaxxers put only themselves at high risk, that includes children who don't have a say, and the pandemic never ends with continued local, regional, and international transmission. Even if we miraculous vaccinated 90% of Americans by autumn, the end game doesn't appear to be so certain if most of the world slowly gets vaccinated, if at all.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,158
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We can all cringe about the optics, but I haven't heard of another way to get us to 75% vaccinated.
They could still pay people to get vaccinated. The other thing I can think of is developing a single national vaccine passport that is really really attractive to have. Make having this necessary for a wide variety of activities that the great majority of people want to have available to them. I honestly think this is in the offing. Just exactly what the details will be, I can't say, of course.
 
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obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
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LOL never heard of anyone refer to a bordering state as "down the street." As Osiris explains, even adjacent counties can be far apart politically and the huge differences you're referencing are in the vicinity of 20-30%. Not weird at all. Even deep blue California is somewhat bifurcated between coastal counties and moderate/conservative inland and rural counties.

You're also underestimating the reality of viral transmission, which doesn't stop at borders. Although I somewhat agree the anti-vaxxers put only themselves at high risk, that includes children who don't have a say, and the pandemic never ends with continued local, regional, and international transmission. Even if we miraculous vaccinated 90% of Americans by autumn, the end game doesn't appear to be so certain if most of the world slowly gets vaccinated, if at all.
Well I can drive 5 min and be in another county, and large part of people in this state live within 10 min of a neighboring one. And the people in the destination usually are that wildly different.. Yes I get that it's aggregated across counties, but I guess I assumed there would be a gradual shift in color on the map, from one county to the next. not sudden jumps just because you cross a border. Opinions also don't respect borders you know!
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,828
432
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They could still pay people to get vaccinated. The other thing I can think of is developing a single national vaccine passport that is really really attractive to have. Make having this necessary for a wide variety of activities that the great majority of people want to have available to them. I honestly think this is in the offing. Just exactly what the details will be, I can't say, of course.
They could but I think it should have been universal and carved out of the last round of $1400 stimmies. Doing it now is still for the overall public good, but you're catering specifically to the knuckleheads. (I'm not suggesting there aren't reasons some people can't get to a vaccination site. I'm speaking to those who state they don't want to ever get vaccinated.)

I don't anticipate a national vaccine passport happening, too many complainers in the GOP.

Well I can drive 5 min and be in another county, and large part of people in this state live within 10 min of a neighboring one. And the people in the destination usually are that wildly different.. Yes I get that it's aggregated across counties, but I guess I assumed there would be a gradual shift in color on the map, from one county to the next. not sudden jumps just because you cross a border. Opinions also don't respect borders you know!
Remember the proverbial "grew up on the wrong side of the tracks?" There's nothing that says these shifts should be gradual. You yourself just said the demographics 10 minutes away can be very different; why couldn't it be so across state lines? And as you suggested, if this was aggregated at say voting precinct levels, there's probably less contrasting color at county or state lines.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,158
3,560
126
I don't anticipate a national vaccine passport happening, too many complainers in the GOP.
Fuck 'em. We all know they want to sabotage the country to benefit themselves. Fuck 'em. Doesn't matter what they say if a good case can be made for VP's. Israel has one already, I hear. I think it's only a matter of time. It's going to be very useful to be able to whip out a card or your cell phone and have proof that you're vaccinated. Look, the wind is going to blow that way. Complainers never win.
 
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obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
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They could but I think it should have been universal and carved out of the last round of $1400 stimmies. Doing it now is still for the overall public good, but you're catering specifically to the knuckleheads. (I'm not suggesting there aren't reasons some people can't get to a vaccination site. I'm speaking to those who state they don't want to ever get vaccinated.)

I don't anticipate a national vaccine passport happening, too many complainers in the GOP.


Remember the proverbial "grew up on the wrong side of the tracks?" There's nothing that says these shifts should be gradual. You yourself just said the demographics 10 minutes away can be very different; why couldn't it be so across state lines? And as you suggested, if this was aggregated at say voting precinct levels, there's probably less contrasting color at county or state lines.
Sorry, I meant NOT very different. Sure, you're probably right. I mean the map shows it, just found it strange. I live in a liberal county, there are super-conservative counties a bit away, and in between they are, well; in between..
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
9,130
3,113
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Well I can drive 5 min and be in another county, and large part of people in this state live within 10 min of a neighboring one. And the people in the destination usually are that wildly different.. Yes I get that it's aggregated across counties, but I guess I assumed there would be a gradual shift in color on the map, from one county to the next. not sudden jumps just because you cross a border. Opinions also don't respect borders you know!
I didn't read the methodology, but I'm guessing there is a lot of data manipulation going on. I really doubt they got a statistically significant sample from every county in the US.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
9,130
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Sorry, I meant NOT very different. Sure, you're probably right. I mean the map shows it, just found it strange. I live in a liberal county, there are super-conservative counties a bit away, and in between they are, well; in between..
My county is the third or fourth highest vax rate in the state. The county just north of be (literally 2 miles) is one of the lowest. My county includes the Urban core and the northern suburbs. The county north are the ex-burbs and rural areas.
 
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manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
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Sorry, I meant NOT very different. Sure, you're probably right. I mean the map shows it, just found it strange. I live in a liberal county, there are super-conservative counties a bit away, and in between they are, well; in between..
You do have a point that the color scheme of the map itself is somewhat misleading; for example all white-shaded Wyoming could have a vaccine interest rate of say 47% overall (or it could be 30% for all I know). Significantly less than some other states, but the color scheme makes it look particularly contrasting.

Recall that when they draw the Electoral College map, it makes America look like two different countries politically (coastal elites + New England vs. "flyover country"). But when they draw it to depict the full range of vote share, things look a lot more nuanced:
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2020/11/10/election-maps-2020-america-county-results-more-voters/6226197002/

To go off on a tangent, the de facto segregation that exists in South Africa is pretty jarring to see:

 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
21,672
3,317
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I watched Clarissa Ward from CNN give a report today of the brutal conditions going on. It's 8 min long.

 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
17,179
4,829
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Fuck 'em. We all know they want to sabotage the country to benefit themselves. Fuck 'em. Doesn't matter what they say if a good case can be made for VP's. Israel has one already, I hear. I think it's only a matter of time. It's going to be very useful to be able to whip out a card or your cell phone and have proof that you're vaccinated. Look, the wind is going to blow that way. Complainers never win.
Why oh why won't they take the vaccine that was developed because of the efforts of their GOD!
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,772
780
126
Fuck 'em. We all know they want to sabotage the country to benefit themselves. Fuck 'em. Doesn't matter what they say if a good case can be made for VP's. Israel has one already, I hear. I think it's only a matter of time. It's going to be very useful to be able to whip out a card or your cell phone and have proof that you're vaccinated. Look, the wind is going to blow that way. Complainers never win.
Your papers please!
 
Feb 4, 2009
29,836
10,380
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I had a real fear this would happen in the US. We were real close to hospitals being overrun, triage and mass graves.
I don’t think many people understand how close we came to a scenario like India.
Going forward I think we will be fine even though we won’t stamp it out because it is looking like we will not reach enough vaccinated for herd immunity. The virus will slowly simmer around the country for years.
Lazy, scared of needles anti vax people you suck. I know all this “concern” is simply many people being afraid of needles.
 
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VW MAN

Member
Jun 27, 2020
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Your papers please!
So the possibility that a sports stadium, a privately owned thing, is considering asking for proof of vaccination for for attendees of events held on their property and you are equating that to historically authoritarian or fascist countries with the stereotypical "papers please!"...and you also claim to not be a republican...you are nothing but a useful idiot spreading FUD in support of the US's very own fascist movement spearheaded by our modern republican party.

Go ahead a keep telling us you are not a teumphumper repug and we will continue to point out where you went wrong!
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,772
780
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So the possibility that a sports stadium, a privately owned thing, is considering asking for proof of vaccination for for attendees of events held on their property and you are equating that to historically authoritarian or fascist countries with the stereotypical "papers please!"...and you also claim to not be a republican...you are nothing but a useful idiot spreading FUD in support of the US's very own fascist movement spearheaded by our modern republican party.

Go ahead a keep telling us you are not a teumphumper repug and we will continue to point out where you went wrong!
The batteries in your sarcasm meter. Change them!
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
11,838
1,178
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we are supporting a customer right now in India, tested positive and is in a serious condition. There's a delay in obtaining the medical documentation because ...

.. because our own provider in India has rampaging COVID infections among their own staff.

Oh and also the hospital is out of anti-retrovirals.
:/
 
Mar 11, 2004
21,109
3,284
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So the possibility that a sports stadium, a privately owned thing, is considering asking for proof of vaccination for for attendees of events held on their property and you are equating that to historically authoritarian or fascist countries with the stereotypical "papers please!"...and you also claim to not be a republican...you are nothing but a useful idiot spreading FUD in support of the US's very own fascist movement spearheaded by our modern republican party.

Go ahead a keep telling us you are not a teumphumper repug and we will continue to point out where you went wrong!
He's just a liar. He's been trying to rehab his image because everytime he posts now people just point out that he's a lying sack of racist shit and no one actually gives a shit about anything he posts because of his constant lying, racism, and idiocy.

Like I told them when they were defending other morons for joking about white supremacist shit, treat them like they legit white supremacists until they either learn to stop doing it or finally fess up they were not joking (which often happens). Either way treat them like they are because they're enabling it if they're joking or not. Just like that clown can keep claiming he isn't a racist shitbag that loves Turmp and Republicans, but he constantly defends them and their racist fucked up behaviors. If he doesn't like it then he needs to either stop doing that or stop lying and fuck off.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,536
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I had a real fear this would happen in the US. We were real close to hospitals being overrun, triage and mass graves.
I don’t think many people understand how close we came to a scenario like India.
Going forward I think we will be fine even though we won’t stamp it out because it is looking like we will not reach enough vaccinated for herd immunity. The virus will slowly simmer around the country for years.
Lazy, scared of needles anti vax people you suck. I know all this “concern” is simply many people being afraid of needles.
Don't assume it still can't happen. One solid mutation of this strain that's truly able to duck the inoculations we've had, and we're right back to Feb2020, and we've already had multiple Important People™ say that we're not going back to lockdowns. It's got all the potential to be just as catastrophic here. We've just been lucky so far (and that's a very sad statement).
 
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