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Covid is slamming India, a worst nightmare

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[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,470
4,455
146
It would much more effective to email Ted Cruz, or Madison Cawthorn, or Marjorie Taylor Greene asking them to support immediate aid to India.
Laughable. The electrical cost of that email creates a net negative impact on the world in comparison to the effect that email will have.
 
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Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,100
487
126
We've likely had 700k+ die in the US and half the population still doesn't think it's a big deal, a percentage of those even think it's all fake or just a bad flu year.
Or you must have gave me covid when I got the hospital.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
5,742
3,964
136
Laughable. The electrical cost of that email creates a net negative impact on the world in comparison to the effect that email will have.
But the purpose is to feel better about yourself vs. any actual impact on the world.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
20,477
12,063
136
Who hired an entire country as crisis actors? I knew Soros had deep pockets but this is insane. Bill Gates must be in on it along with Bezos.

OR

Can we at least put to rest the myth that covid is just like the regular seasonal flu?

OR

Can the asshole who said all we needed to deal with covid was vitamins ship some damn vitamins to Inida?
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,470
4,455
146
But the purpose is to feel better about yourself vs. any actual impact on the world.
Well that's breathtakingly solipsistic. How does wasting your time doing something that you know has no impact make you feel better?
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
9,005
2,992
136
Who hired an entire country as crisis actors? I knew Soros had deep pockets but this is insane. Bill Gates must be in on it along with Bezos.

OR

Can we at least put to rest the myth that covid is just like the regular seasonal flu?

OR

Can the asshole who said all we needed to deal with covid was vitamins ship some damn vitamins to Inida?
MAGAts didn't care when their own family was dying, do you think they give a shit about poor, brown, pagans in India?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,898
3,453
126
If 500 million have had covid, that means 40% of the population now has some form of natural immunity. India's covid infection is growing exponentially (Delhi is posting 40% positivity rates now) and showing no signs of stopping. It's a full-blown nightmare and it's only getting worse, but I have to wonder (and hope) that natural immunity will play a very substantial beneficial role for India in the near future.

I'm not saying herd immunity is superior to immunization—that type of thinking is typically reserved for the crazies/assholes of the world. The best possible scenario would be all of India getting vaccinated regularly, but what are the odds of that actually happening any time soon?
Vaccination confers far superior immunity than having been infected by the virus.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,898
3,453
126
We've likely had 700k+ die in the US and half the population still doesn't think it's a big deal, a percentage of those even think it's all fake or just a bad flu year.
The long-haulers are another concern and it's largely unknown at this point what's going on with it. Apparently the virus persists in those people in some form because vaccinations given to long-haulers in many cases results in very major improvement. What I'm saying is, the deaths aren't the whole story and possibly not even the major story concerning the long term consequences of this pandemic.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
21,602
3,272
136
They have had 300K+ cases everyday for a week IIRC.

Today its over 400K
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
12,834
7,759
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It's quite bad there at the moment, no doubt, but it should be noted that on a per capita basis, it isn't anywhere near where it was at our peak in the US. In fact, it's only a little worse now there than it is currently here.

That observation is based on the assumption cases and deaths there are undercounted 2:1. You could double their 3K deaths per day to 6K deaths and it equates to about 1300 deaths per day in the US. Right now we're at what, 1000 per day?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
20,477
12,063
136
It's quite bad there at the moment, no doubt, but it should be noted that on a per capita basis, it isn't anywhere near where it was at our peak in the US. In fact, it's only a little worse now there than it is currently here.

That observation is based on the assumption cases and deaths there are undercounted 2:1. You could double their 3K deaths per day to 6K deaths and it equates to about 1300 deaths per day in the US. Right now we're at what, 1000 per day?
I think its much, much worse than that. Their hospitals are overwhelmed, they can't even begin to do enough testing and they literally are having trouble cremating bodies fast enough with places seeing more than 10x their normal number of cremations.

The official figures are from the limited testing they are doing.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
12,834
7,759
136
I think its much, much worse than that. Their hospitals are overwhelmed, they can't even begin to do enough testing and they literally are having trouble cremating bodies fast enough with places seeing more than 10x their normal number of cremations.

The official figures are from the limited testing they are doing.
Perhaps. Though the testing issue is really only relevant to case numbers, not death numbers. For those who die in hospitals, they get tested prior to death.

What would affect the death numbers is hospital overcrowding preventing people from getting treated so they die at home and never get tested. That is clearly going on there, but to what extent is, for now, anyone's guess.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,799
417
126
Perhaps. Though the testing issue is really only relevant to case numbers, not death numbers. For those who die in hospitals, they get tested prior to death.

What would affect the death numbers is hospital overcrowding preventing people from getting treated so they die at home and never get tested. That is clearly going on there, but to what extent is, for now, anyone's guess.
Read the reporting earlier in this thread. Whether intentionally or otherwise, India has always significantly undercounted deaths attributed to Covid-19.

As brycejones mentioned, the disaster is far worse than a mere doubling. Regardless of what the true multiple is, it's ludicrous to even state it's only a "little worse" there than it is in the U.S. now.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
12,834
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Read the reporting earlier in this thread. Whether intentionally or otherwise, India has always significantly undercounted deaths attributed to Covid-19.

As brycejones mentioned, the disaster is far worse than a mere doubling. Regardless of what the true multiple is, it's ludicrous to even state it's only a "little worse" there than it is in the U.S. now.
It's only "ludicrous" if we know the extent of the under-reporting and that it is higher than the gap in official states. We do not know this. You and others are just assuming it.

I'd bet that when COVID is over in both countries, it will still have been worse here, even if the undercount is 5:1 instead of 2:1. That's because we currently have more than 10x the per capita death toll according to what has been reported.

I'm not trying to minimize the current problem in India. Just to emphasize that when all is said and done, we will likely have done worse than a severely over-populated developing nation with crappy healthcare. We may be doing better than they are right at the moment, but that is no cause for us to feel superior.
 
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manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,799
417
126
It's only "ludicrous" if we know the extent of the under-reporting and that it is higher than the gap in official states. We do not know this. You and others are just assuming it.

I'd bet that when COVID is over in both countries, it will still have been worse here, even if the undercount is 5:1 instead of 2:1. That's because we currently have more than 10x the per capita death toll according to what has been reported.

I'm not trying to minimize the current problem in India. Just to emphasize that when all is said and done, we will likely have done worse than a severely over-populated developing nation with crappy healthcare. We may be doing better than they are right at the moment, but that is no cause for us to feel superior.
I and others have said in this thread we don't know the full extent of the disaster. But the way you frame it as "we don't know how bad things are" is completely asinine. It would be like saying a year ago we didn't know how bad it was in NYC metro, because the testing infrastructure and data were woefully incomplete. But did we have evidence that it was really bad?

Nobody is feeling superior about anything; we are saying the world is seeing a health crisis unfold in India, it will get a lot worse before it gets better and hopefully wealthy countries like the U.S. will help in any ways that we can. Nobody else here is talking about what the final misery tally will be in a year or two, just you.

You fail to understand the factors you mentioned specifically explain why India's cases and deaths are so undercounted, even if we don't know the exact multiples. Compared to the U.S., they have a poor public health infrastructure and dense urban population centers. Most of our seniors, the most vulnerable to severe Covid-19, have already been inoculated and thus our trend line is favorable and we have a pathway to normality down the road.

We can all agree that nobody knows the true scale of the problem in India, but then you choose to float out there that their official numbers are only a "little worse" than ours. Who the fuck cares when that's comparing apples and oranges? The media isn't reporting this to denigrate India; it's reporting it to explain the scope of the ongoing crisis. Also note that less reported now is that region-wide, South America is in nearly as much pain as South Asia is. It's mid-autumn in the southern hemisphere, and I don't know if that's a factor.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
12,834
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I and others have said in this thread we don't know the full extent of the disaster. But the way you frame it as "we don't know how bad things are" is completely asinine. It would be like saying a year ago we didn't know how bad it was in NYC metro, because the testing infrastructure and data were woefully incomplete. But did we have evidence that it was really bad?

Nobody is feeling superior about anything; we are saying the world is seeing a health crisis unfold in India, it will get a lot worse before it gets better and hopefully wealthy countries like the U.S. will help in any ways that we can. Nobody else here is talking about what the final misery tally will be in a year or two, just you.

You fail to understand the factors you mentioned specifically explain why India's cases and deaths are so undercounted, even if we don't know the exact multiples. Compared to the U.S., they have a poor public health infrastructure and dense urban population centers. Most of our seniors, the most vulnerable to severe Covid-19, have already been inoculated and thus our trend line is favorable and we have a pathway to normality down the road.

We can all agree that nobody knows the true scale of the problem in India, but then you choose to float out there that their official numbers are only a "little worse" than ours. Who the fuck cares when that's comparing apples and oranges? The media isn't reporting this to denigrate India; it's reporting it to explain the scope of the ongoing crisis. Also note that less reported now is that region-wide, South America is in nearly as much pain as South Asia is. It's mid-autumn in the southern hemisphere, and I don't know if that's a factor.
I know why the media is reporting it. My point was a tangent in the thread, to remind us that no matter how bad it gets in a poor, over-populated country like India, in the final analysis it is unlikely to be worse than in the U.S. if measured per capita. I find that fact quite startling actually, but obviously YMMV.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,898
3,453
126
They have had 300K+ cases everyday for a week IIRC.

Today its over 400K
Not surprised, and that's the official figure. What's actually going on is very likely much much worse. That site shows 9600 critical/serious cases for the USA right now, 8900 for India. I figure India has 10x more than US right now, easily. They can't get into the hospitals, can't get tested, a great many don't have transportation even if hospitals could accommodate them, the rural people.

... and yes, South America is blowing up right now.
 
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manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,799
417
126
I know why the media is reporting it. My point was a tangent in the thread, to remind us that no matter how bad it gets in a poor, over-populated country like India, in the final analysis it is unlikely to be worse than in the U.S. if measured per capita. I find that fact quite startling actually, but obviously YMMV.
To be fair, you initially stated it's "quite bad" in India right now, which we can all agree on. But then you went off on a tangent of comparing their woefully inaccurate numbers to ours to make these broad conclusions about today and a future final analysis. Based on their lack of comprehensive mortality data for 2020, it is unlikely you'll ever be able to directly compare the Covid-19 official statistics between the U.S. and India for infections or deaths.

You may even be right that the U.S. dug itself such a deep hole in 2020 that history will judge us very harshly in our handling of the pandemic and its outcomes. It's no mere coincidence that a few countries vying for such an infamous record had these federal leaders: Trump, Bolsonaro, AMLO and Modi. Of these 4 countries, only the U.S. is an economic powerhouse.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,100
487
126
Perhaps. Though the testing issue is really only relevant to case numbers, not death numbers. For those who die in hospitals, they get tested prior to death.

What would affect the death numbers is hospital overcrowding preventing people from getting treated so they die at home and never get tested. That is clearly going on there, but to what extent is, for now, anyone's guess.
You have to consider the collateral damage. A lot of people are dying, not do to covid, but do to the hospitals being clogged up and they have to wait, unfortunately, to their demise.

/is it do or due? lol
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
19,517
1,245
136
due is propa

Every time I hear people who think this thing should just be allowed to "run its course", I want to ask them if they will go to the hospitals and shoot the covid patients that show up.
They have no clue what would happen to the health care system.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,898
3,453
126
This doctor knows India and covid. This video produced 1/2 a day ago:

 

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