Covid epidemic blowing up right now in China

[sdifox]

This is true for nearly every country.

Then the foreigners being at fault story doesn't hold water.

 

[sdifox]

More Americans died in the civil war than WW I and WW II combined.

Like I said, the foreigners being the evil one narrative doesn't hold water.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You are suggesting Xi (and company) got Pfizer or Moderna mRNA jabs? Wouldn't that be a scandal?

We sent them some at the start of Russias Ukraine bullshit. Appeared to be a good way to get China to shut the fuck up about Ukraine.

 

[pmv]

Then the foreigners being at fault story doesn't hold water.

Don't think it's so much about 'being killed' as 'being humiliated'. China was severely disrespected by foreigners for a long time. It's easier to forgive being killed than being disrespected (apparently).

 

[sportage]

I'm not following this because #1 its China after all, and #2 who ever knows what is really happening over in China?
And I've read few posts in this thread but in my ignorance I still have to ask, don't they vaccinate over there? Are they anti-vaxxers? I guess I don't get what the problem is. Maybe I don't want to know...

2023.... sounds like a fun year for all of us.

 

[m8d]

You have to feel for the Chinese people.

 

[pmv]

That debate has been said and done--way too many times. At this point, we don't care what you think is more deadly, what matters is how many die. The combination of (death rate) * (# infected in the year) is 40x more for Covid in the US in 2022. Feel free to knock yourself out separating the two factors--it just doesn't matter. All that matters is that the final number who die is way more. That is why we treat them differently which is the answer to the question.

You miss my point. I've been of the view that COVID needs to be taken very seriously from the very start (even before it got out of China) and in particular that comparisons with flu have mostly been stupid.

I'm just saying that with the Omicron variant(s) being so extremely contagious (but at least slightly less deadly), the distinction between 'dying of' and 'dying with' becomes more much more of an issue than with either flu or the earlier COVID variants.

With the earlier variants I didn't agree with those who tried to make a big deal out of that distinction, but now it seems more valid, and makes it hard to know what to think about the current death numbers.

As almost everybody is getting it, it's going to mean a lot of people who are dying of something else will get it, which could make the danger look greater than it is.

So I'm not sure what to make of the current death figures. The US official figures now show more than 1 in 300 of the population have died of (or with, or assisted by) COVID.


But what really matters is what effect COVID has on the excess death numbers.

 

[sdifox]

Don't think it's so much about 'being killed' as 'being humiliated'. China was severely disrespected by foreigners for a long time. It's easier to forgive being killed than being disrespected (apparently).

Well, Chinese isolationism caused them to lag behind scientific research. Kind of hard to fight western imperialism without cutting edge weapons. China was mistreated for sure, but they weren't the only ones. The CCP just likes to fan the flame and paint everyone else as the enemy while they are the ones causing the misery.

Throw in universal corruption and even civilian efforts to help the Chinese people are being thwarted. There's been reports of widespread customs seizure of acetaminophen and ibuprofen shipment and the drugs are then sold by the custom officers for huge profit.

There are reports of pharmacies telling people they have no tylenol but the shelves are fully stocked.


Fucking North Korea banned Chinese travellers.

 

[sdifox]

I'm not following this because #1 its China after all, and #2 who ever knows what is really happening over in China?
And I've read few posts in this thread but in my ignorance I still have to ask, don't they vaccinate over there? Are they anti-vaxxers? I guess I don't get what the problem is. Maybe I don't want to know...

2023.... sounds like a fun year for all of us.

Their own vaccine is shit. The government has been telling its people mRNA is dangerous white devil stuff. Can't be going to white devils and buy mRNA now can they?

 

[dullard]

But what really matters is what effect COVID has on the excess death numbers.

In the US, excess deaths are about 15% higher than the Covid deaths that I posted above. If that is what you need to compare Covid to flu, go on and add ~15%.

Excess Mortality during the Pandemic: The Role of Health Insurance | CEA | The White House

Official estimates of deaths attributable to COVID-19 indicate that over 1 million Americans have lost their lives to COVID-19 since the first COVID-19 death was reported in the United States in March 2020. However, this staggering loss does not include any deaths caused by COVID-19 that were...

www.whitehouse.gov

Worldwide, excess deaths are about 3x the reported Covid deaths. But, in the US, we actually have a fairly decent record keeping of Covid deaths. Perfect? Certainly not. But good enough for rough comparisons between diseases.

 

[Muse]

I'm not following this because #1 its China after all, and #2 who ever knows what is really happening over in China?
And I've read few posts in this thread but in my ignorance I still have to ask, don't they vaccinate over there? Are they anti-vaxxers? I guess I don't get what the problem is. Maybe I don't want to know...

2023.... sounds like a fun year for all some, not all of us.

FTFY

 

[Muse]

But what really matters is what effect COVID has on the excess death numbers.

Seems to me the excess death numbers can be more or less simply attributed to Covid-19, parse it any way you want.

Researchers have tried to quantify the total net mortality burden of the COVID-19 pandemic by examining how observed counts of deaths during a specific time period differ from the expected number of deaths during the same time period based on data prior to the pandemic. These “excess deaths” thus provide a measure of the extra number of deaths from all causes during the pandemic relative to what would have been expected had the pandemic not occurred.

 

[Muse]

Well, Chinese isolationism caused them to lag behind scientific research. Kind of hard to fight western imperialism without cutting edge weapons.

But reports are that the Chinese are super into stealing whatever they can in terms of licensed, trademarked, copyrighted technology, e.g. from the USA, its government and companies. It's been an issue for many years.

 

[sdifox]

But reports are that the Chinese are super into stealing whatever they can in terms of licensed, trademarked, copyrighted technology, e.g. from the USA, its government and companies. It's been an issue for many years.

We were talking about the origin of Chinese dislike of foreigners. I mean the Chinese invented gunpowder, but it was the Westerners that turned it into a weapon.

 

[Fenixgoon]

We were talking about the origin of Chinese dislike of foreigners. I mean Chinese invented gunpowder, but it was the Westerners that turned it into a weapon.

Same with the printing press - the Chinese had wood blocks to print individual characters readily, and IIRC, through trade the idea passed over to Europe where Gutenberg adapted that to build the printing press.

 

[sdifox]

Same with the printing press - the Chinese had wood blocks to print individual characters readily, and IIRC, through trade the idea passed over to Europe where Gutenberg adapted that to build the printing press.

It all stems from the government favouring stability. The emperors just want to stay in power, any sort of change that can be perceived as threatening to the emperor is a big nono. There cannot be innovation if the government doesn't want innovation.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

We were talking about the origin of Chinese dislike of foreigners. I mean the Chinese invented gunpowder, but it was the Westerners that turned it into a weapon.

I hate this myth. While Westerners did figure out more effective ways of of making guns and cannons, the Chinese were certainly using gun powder/explosives for siege weapons. They didn’t just use it for fire works.

 

[feralkid]

We were talking about the origin of Chinese dislike of foreigners. I mean the Chinese invented gunpowder, but it was the Westerners that turned it into a weapon.

A popular myth, but completely false.

https://www.medievalists.net/2022/1...nvention of gunpowder,in the search for drugs.

 

[Fenixgoon]

A popular myth, but completely false.

https://www.medievalists.net/2022/11/origins-gunpowder-age/#:~:text=The invention of gunpowder,in the search for drugs.

Excellent article. Thanks for sharing!

 

[sdifox]

I hate this myth. While Westerners did figure out more effective ways of of making guns and cannons, the Chinese were certainly using gun powder/explosives for siege weapons. They didn’t just use it for fire works.

Chinese used it for weapons yes, but nothing like what the west developed. I believe the earliest weaponised gunpowder weapon similar to what the west developed were from the Mongols. Exploding shells and rifiling were a mystery for the Chinese. The industrial revolution brought about metallurgical advances and cannon boring technologies that left Chinese weaponry in the dust.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Chinese used it for weapons yes, but nothing like what the west developed. I believe the earliest weaponised gunpowder weapon similar to what the west developed were from the Mongols. Exploding shells and rifiling were a mystery for the Chinese. The industrial revolution brought about metallurgical advances and cannon boring technologies that left Chinese weaponry in the dust.

right, but those developments were hundreds of years later...

 

[sdifox]

right, but those developments were hundreds of years later...

we were talking about the resentment of westerners, which mostly happend at the turn of the 20th century.


Opium Wars was cause by England introducing Opium to China since they could not afford to pay China for all the goods they wanted. Nation sponsored drug trafficking. China tried to stop it and we ended up with Opium Wars.

This was 8 countries ganging up on China. Cause was of course the Chinese regent was depending on the Boxers to fight the foreigners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Dowager_Cixi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Peking_(1900)

These are ancient grievances. Meanwhile none of the sins of the CCP are being acknowledged. They've been around for a century now.

Tens of millions died in the Great Leap Forward. Who knows how many from Cultural Revolution. Let's just peg it at 1 M.

 

[feralkid]

Ah fergit it.

 

[sdifox]

Unconfirmed reports are saying China is now burning bodies in steel plant in Sichuan.

Ah fergit it.

CCP was founded in 1921. They kicked KMT out in 1949, but I am talking about their existence. As in as a party they have existed for a century, yet cannot acknowledge their own past wrongdoings.

Even the fucking KMT acknowledged their wrongdoings regarding 228 white terror in Taiwan.

February 28 incident - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sdifox]

A popular myth, but completely false.

https://www.medievalists.net/2022/11/origins-gunpowder-age/#:~:text=The invention of gunpowder,in the search for drugs.

My point was, they had a lead, but sat on the lead doing nothing for at least five centuries. Otherwise China would not lose so badly to white devils arriving by boat traveling four thousand nautical mile of ocean.

One theory is that Mongol use of gunpowder in Europe led to European investment in firearm R&D. Mongols used metal barrel, unlike the Chinese bamboo ones.