Covid epidemic blowing up right now in China

[Muse]

I can't even imagine spending 3 years with few freedoms and lots of lockdowns, finally get your freedoms, only to fly to Italy and be quarantined upon arrival. More than half are Covid positive in initial flights to Italy.

Italy imposes mandatory Covid tests for travellers from China

Italy, the first European nation to be hit hard by Covid after it emerged in China, is now the first to impose mandatory tests on people arriving from China.

www.cnbc.com

Dang! What's wrong with the USA? Why in the world would they be delaying the implementation of the testing edict until Jan. 5? They think inconveniencing covid positive travelers on short notice isn't acceptable? Pulease!

 

[tweaker2]

So then it seems inevitable that China will adopt the Trump Solution whereby simply ignoring the threat will allow Darwinism to take its natural course thereby yielding a stronger more robust species to evolve (of course, after unnecessarily killing untold millions of others within and beyond their own borders?).

 

[dullard]

Dang! What's wrong with the USA? Why in the world would they be delaying the implementation of the testing edict until Jan. 5? They think inconveniencing covid positive travelers on short notice isn't acceptable? Pulease!

1) We can let Covid positive people into the country from China. I can only presume that this is because they have money.
2) Title 42 won't let people into the country because they might bring in Covid. I can only presume that this is because they don't have money.

 

[purbeast0]

We just had covid go through our household for the 2nd time. The first time was right after Xmas last year. Only myself and my younger son got it. My youngest had a fever for like 18 hours then was fine. I had a bad/mild cold for like 5-6 days.

This time my other son and wife tested positive on Sunday before Xmas. My wife had just gotten over a bad cold which we tested for covid, and it was negative, and was on the upswing from that when she tested positive. I'm guessing she had covid prior but we tested early or something.

My son on the other hand felt like shit for like 2-3 days. He had a fever that stayed under 102, body aches, tired, no appetite, and he threw up a few times. I felt so bad for him and was happy to see him on the upswing. Then on Friday I tested positive and it felt like a more minor/mild cold and I had a headache for like 6 hours and that was it.

IMO we're just going to have to live with it from now on. I honestly am starting to wonder why we have this special case for covid now where we have to test, take different precautions, etc. Like, why can't people, whenever they feel sick, just not go out and around other people? Why do we have to make covid special now that it's mutated to not be as bad as it used to be?

Oh and we're fully vaxxed in our household. I had my bivalent booster in October at the same time as my flu shot.

 

[tweaker2]

1) We can let Covid positive people into the country from China. I can only presume that this is because they have money.
2) Title 42 won't let people into the country because they might bring in Covid. I can only presume that this is because they don't have money.

I can easily see where big moneyed interests are calling the shots in this regard. Keeping their profit margins from being "infected" is their primary concern while lives being lost as a tradeoff is just fine with these folks.

 

[Muse]

IMO we're just going to have to live with it from now on. I honestly am starting to wonder why we have this special case for covid now where we have to test, take different precautions, etc. Like, why can't people, whenever they feel sick, just not go out and around other people? Why do we have to make covid special now that it's mutated to not be as bad as it used to be?

Been wondering myself. Omicron variants were said to be relatively unlikely to invade the lungs and thus much less threat for hospitalization, ventilators, death. But I didn't see data, just heard this and that. However, what I'm hearing about what's going on in China right now (dullard says it's BA.7 there) strongly suggests that equating Omicron to just something we should be mindful to not pass onto others is not efficacious control. It's invading people's lungs, it's killing people, it's overloading the hospitals. Often, people get sick, then maybe after a few days feel pretty OK, then in a day or two suddenly drop dead. It's a lot more deadly than, say, the flu. I have to think it's also, like all the variants, evidently, producing long-covid with potential unknown major consequences. Everything I've heard about it suggests that long-covid is not well understood.

I am personally unaware of having ever contracted covid-19. I figure one day I'm apt to, however I am taking precautions to not get infected, and if infected, not get a large viral dose. I go nowhere without an N95. I have not been inside a restaurant eating since before the pandemic. IMO, the cavalier attitude many have about covid is pure folly. And yes, the 16% uptake in the US of the bivalent booster boggles my mind. I got mine ASAP (Sept. 9).

 

[dullard]

IMO we're just going to have to live with it from now on. I honestly am starting to wonder why we have this special case for covid now where we have to test, take different precautions, etc. Like, why can't people, whenever they feel sick, just not go out and around other people? Why do we have to make covid special now that it's mutated to not be as bad as it used to be?

We had a chance to stop Covid in its tracks. Just have everyone who could have been exposed stay at home for a couple weeks in early 2020. We blew that. Our next best option is exactly what you mention: smack Covid down then keep it down with vaccines and those who are sick staying at home. Well we are blowing that option too. I think roughly 16% of US adults have had the bivalent vaccine. Heck, many people won't even stay home when sick now. Of all things that could have come from this pandemic is to learn to take sick leave (and for companies to give employees a few days off). But no we couldn't even learn that simple lesson.

So to answer your question: selfishness and politics are why we now have to treat Covid special--possibly forever.

 

[purbeast0]

We had a chance to stop Covid in its tracks. Just have everyone who could have been exposed stay at home for a couple weeks in early 2020. We blew that. Our next best option is exactly what you mention: smack Covid down then keep it down with vaccines and those who are sick staying at home. Well we are blowing that option too. I think roughly 16% of US adults have had the bivalent vaccine. Heck, many people won't even stay home when sick now. Of all things that could have come from this pandemic is to learn to take sick leave (and for companies to give employees a few days off). But no we couldn't even learn that simple lesson.

So to answer your question: selfishness and politics are why we now have to treat Covid special--possibly forever.

But what is the difference between people not staying home when they have a cold or the flu, versus not staying home when they have whatever the current non-lethal strain of covid going around? That is where my confusion is coming in with treating it so differently.

Like when my son had covid, I had to fill out some form for the country to say what school, grade, when he got covid, etc. But had he stayed home for the same time with just the flu or something else, we wouldn't have had to do that.

Why are they so different? Just because covid is "new" compared to the flu?

 

[dullard]

But what is the difference between people not staying home when they have a cold or the flu, versus not staying home when they have whatever the current non-lethal strain of covid going around? That is where my confusion is coming in with treating it so differently.

Like when my son had covid, I had to fill out some form for the country to say what school, grade, when he got covid, etc. But had he stayed home for the same time with just the flu or something else, we wouldn't have had to do that.

Why are they so different? Just because covid is "new" compared to the flu?

We are treating them different because they are different. I'm fairly certain that this has been debated to death, but I'll put the latest numbers up:

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

Covid deaths are 40x that of the flu in the US. I couldn't quickly find any up-to-date statistics on common cold deaths, but I'm fairly certain the numbers are too low to be of concern. And despite Covid being 40x the death count, roughly 3x more adults got flu vaccines in the US this year than the bivalent Covid vaccine.

Why can't we treat Covid like it is: a dangerous disease that we can minimize with a few simple steps? Only then we can return to life as close to normal as possible.

 

[tweaker2]

We had a chance to stop Covid in its tracks. Just have everyone who could have been exposed stay at home for a couple weeks in early 2020. We blew that. Our next best option is exactly what you mention: smack Covid down then keep it down with vaccines and those who are sick staying at home. Well we are blowing that option too. I think roughly 16% of US adults have had the bivalent vaccine. Heck, many people won't even stay home when sick now. Of all things that could have come from this pandemic is to learn to take sick leave (and for companies to give employees a few days off). But no we couldn't even learn that simple lesson.

So to answer your question: selfishness and politics are why we now have to treat Covid special--possibly forever.

I recall at our shop three separate Covid breakouts occurred because the infected employees who renewed the spread knew they were sick but came to work because "they couldn't afford to stay at home", while attempting to reserve their sick leave days for "more serious ailments." At every episode whole individual shops and contacts outside the infected shop were shut down for weeks at a time. The first episode occurred during the time when Trump was convincing his anti-vaxxer conservatives to put up a fight while pooh-pooing the need to take a concerted approach toward mitigating the effects of the pandemic. The other two occurred after the company made vaccinations mandatory to work with some employees not caring to keep themselves from getting infected. There was this push to make it known who those disease spreaders were but management refused to divulge.

We escaped from being totally shut down because our company is a national defense related entity.

 

[quikah]

Why can't we treat Covid like it is: a dangerous disease that we can minimize with a few simple steps? Only then we can return to life as close to normal as possible.

A very large percentage of people have returned to life as normal regardless.

 

[cytg111]

Anecdotal but I do get a sense around me that people is having it worse with this seasons flu than with actual covid ... and people *are* being hammered with both around me, of course people are vaxed and once boosted but for the most part covid is a couple of days and the flu is a week plus change. Maybe we(Scandinavia at least) *is* getting a little resistance going vs. this covid thing?

 

[Fenixgoon]

Anecdotal but I do get a sense around me that people is having it worse with this seasons flu than with actual covid ... and people *are* being hammered with both around me, of course people are vaxed and once boosted but for the most part covid is a couple of days and the flu is a week plus change. Maybe we(Scandinavia at least) *is* getting a little resistance going vs. this covid thing?

Up on my vacation in northern Sweden, I caught a totally-not-covid cold (almost identical symptoms but tested negative twice).

Plenty of people around here with coughs and sniffles and it's making me paranoid haha. Masking up mostly to protect everyone else from whatever I do have, and to protect myself a little.

I will be very glad to get back to my apartment.

 

[Pens1566]

We are treating them different because they are different. I'm fairly certain that this has been debated to death, but I'll put the latest numbers up:
View attachment 73632

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

Covid deaths are 40x that of the flu in the US. I couldn't quickly find any up-to-date statistics on common cold deaths, but I'm fairly certain the numbers are too low to be of concern. And despite Covid being 40x the death count, roughly 3x more adults got flu vaccines in the US this year than the bivalent Covid vaccine.

Why can't we treat Covid like it is: a dangerous disease that we can minimize with a few simple steps? Only then we can return to life as close to normal as possible.

There's also long covid, which doesn't have a comparison to flu. As time goes on, I suspect we'll find out that covid infections have more serious long term impacts than is typical for seasonal infections.

 

[Muse]

There's also long covid, which doesn't have a comparison to flu. As time goes on, I suspect we'll find out that covid infections have more serious long term impacts than is typical for seasonal infections.

Exactly, and a real concern. The covid-19 pandemic has me more on edge than I used to be. I used to wash my hands when I got home but now I'm more careful away from home. I never used to mask up unless it was for the bad air we got from wild fires (had 3M N95's for that). I figure N95's are a good idea in lots of circumstances going forward. I hate being sick!

 

[brycejones]

Exactly, and a real concern. The covid-19 pandemic has me more on edge than I used to be. I used to wash my hands when I got home but now I'm more careful away from home. I never used to mask up unless it was for the bad air we got from wild fires (had 3M N95's for that). I figure N95's are a good idea in lots of circumstances going forward. I hate being sick!

I have a box of various styles of KN95s now. Thank you COVID-19

 

[m8d]

You have to feel for Chinese people.

 

[hal2kilo]

You have to feel for Chinese people.

How old is their civilization? Slow learners. No magical mysterious Asian medicine? No killing of extremely rare animals to fix it?

 

[pmv]

We are treating them different because they are different. I'm fairly certain that this has been debated to death, but I'll put the latest numbers up:
View attachment 73632

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

Covid deaths are 40x that of the flu in the US. I couldn't quickly find any up-to-date statistics on common cold deaths, but I'm fairly certain the numbers are too low to be of concern. And despite Covid being 40x the death count, roughly 3x more adults got flu vaccines in the US this year than the bivalent Covid vaccine.

Why can't we treat Covid like it is: a dangerous disease that we can minimize with a few simple steps? Only then we can return to life as close to normal as possible.

Those figures _could_ just reflect the fact that COVID is much more infectious than flu - therefore a lot more people are dying with it than with flu, because a lot more people have COVID, including a lot more people who happen to be dying (of something).

Not saying that's definitely the case, just saying that those figures don't in themselves prove COVID is much more deadly than flu.

The ultimate test surely has to be the excess death figures? That's what gets quoted when talking about past flu epidemics (e.g. 1918 with 50 million global deaths, I think that's how that figure is arrived at).

Globally COVID is now between 16 and 30 million deaths, on that basis, so it's getting comparable to that 'worst ever' flu outbreak. Though that still involves the issue of comparable infectiousness, as well as deadliness, and it doesn't consider Omicron in isolation (though it might mutate again and get more deadly again). Basically I don't really know what to think about it now!

(The other thing is the massive knock-on effects COVID has had - so many parts of the State apparatus in this country have nearly stopped functioning, due to a combined effect of the Virus and the Tory Party...hard to separate the two, really.)

 

[dullard]

Not saying that's definitely the case, just saying that those figures don't in themselves prove COVID is much more deadly than flu.

That debate has been said and done--way too many times. At this point, we don't care what you think is more deadly, what matters is how many die. The combination of (death rate) * (# infected in the year) is 40x more for Covid in the US in 2022. Feel free to knock yourself out separating the two factors--it just doesn't matter. All that matters is that the final number who die is way more. That is why we treat them differently which is the answer to the question.

 

[Muse]

I have a box of various styles of KN95s now. Thank you COVID-19

I have quite a few 3M N95's, 2 varieties. 1/3 of them have valves, I wear those for aerobic outdoors activities. Filters the air and keeps cold air out of my sinuses.

 

[Muse]

How old is their civilization? Slow learners. No magical mysterious Asian medicine? No killing of extremely rare animals to fix it?

Historically, I'm told, China was mistreated by other nations and the legacy is that the Chinese don't trust them, understandable. It can be problematical. Here they would benefit from cooperating, especially sharing the vaccines, the technology behind them, medications too. They did buy up a great deal of PPE from American stock before America realized how much it was needed domestically, but it was AFAIK in no way a cooperative thing.

 

[sdifox]

Historically, I'm told, China was mistreated by other nations and the legacy is that the Chinese don't trust them, understandable. It can be problematical. Here they would benefit from cooperating, especially sharing the vaccines, the technology behind them, medications too.

More Chinese died by Chinese hands than by foreigners' hands.

 

[fskimospy]

More Chinese died by Chinese hands than by foreigners' hands.

This is true for nearly every country.

 

[Muse]

More Chinese died by Chinese hands than by foreigners' hands.

More Americans died in the civil war than WW I and WW II combined.