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Court rules CIA is above the law

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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
You weren't here when Bush was President were you? I trashed him for things like extraordinary rendition, the suspension of habeus corpus in the detention of a US citizen arrested on US soil so disliking Obama is irrelevant. He's the guy in charge now who is following and indeed strengthening things like warrantless wiretaps, so no I do not apologize for mentioning the administration who is in the drivers seat. If you have been following this you would know that there was active discussion of the destruction of these tapes and indeed arguments have been made that in a time of war normal legal checks and balances do not apply. This is precisely what the last administration supported while I do not. Make no mistake I could not care less who holds the gun to our legal protections.
No, I understand you hated the Bush adm as much as this one, which doesn't mean your hating this one is a non-factor in your opinion. In any event, hating the adm or no, the specific issue was you claiming that the administration here argued for no penalty and whatever your other grievances are, that was not a very accurate comment.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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No surprise @ all. The CIA has done far worse shit than this. LOL...
I care less whether you are surprised than about the wrongness of the issue and that the public is informed and concerned to try to create pressure to change it.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
6
76
You're incorrect that it 'never' makes it that far. In fact, we have a volume of information about activities not intended for the public.
If you have heard about it, then it wasn't that important. Ask people in the military if they have ever been visited by people from Virginia about security issues , the ones that have will know what you mean. I can tell you this, they don't make threats, and they don't imply anything, but you walk away understanding exactly where you stand and where the government rules and regulations end.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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I care less whether you are surprised than about the wrongness of the issue and that the public is informed and concerned to try to create pressure to change it.
Well, if the executive and judicial branch aren't going to hold the CIA accountable, how is an informed public going to change it? Legislators pass a law that the executive won't enforce and the judiciary won't uphold?
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
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The CIA are definitely going to be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
Nah, they'll disappear, or fight, or flee. They've had a virtually unlimited, unaccounted for budget for years, so they've plenty of places to hide.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Start with the Obama's administration precedence setting decision about being able to order the execution of US citizen without a trial.

Add in the Obama's administration defense of the destruction of videos via the CIA which puts the federal government above the law.

What do you got? An administration which is treading on dangerous grounds of future fed abuse.

How that big government hope and change feeling for you liberals?
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Start with the Obama's administration precedence setting decision about being able to order the execution of US citizen without a trial.

Add in the Obama's administration defense of the destruction of videos via the CIA which puts the federal government above the law.

What do you got? An administration which is treading on dangerous grounds of future fed abuse.

How that big government hope and change feeling for you liberals?
I'm going to say it one more time. I know the truth makes very little difference to most of you but here it is. Obama has no say whatsoever in how the CIA argues its own criminal case. Obama cannot intervene and force the CIA to invite criminal penalty upon itself. I'm sorry but that is simply the way the justice system works.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
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If you have heard about it, then it wasn't that important. Ask people in the military if they have ever been visited by people from Virginia about security issues , the ones that have will know what you mean. I can tell you this, they don't make threats, and they don't imply anything, but you walk away understanding exactly where you stand and where the government rules and regulations end.
That's just incorrect. The most important CIA activities have generally become known.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Start with the Obama's administration precedence setting decision about being able to order the execution of US citizen without a trial.

Add in the Obama's administration defense of the destruction of videos via the CIA which puts the federal government above the law.

What do you got? An administration which is treading on dangerous grounds of future fed abuse.

How that big government hope and change feeling for you liberals?
In areas, disappointed and concerned, overall relieved.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,274
202
106
I really dont get why anyone thinks Obama is in any way better than Bush. He is really much the same, just a different party.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
12,395
3,754
136
Those stink'in *-------* at the *---* have got to be held accountable for their *---------* of the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They should be *----_------* for such *-----_---* and *----* for *--------_---_-----_-----* pursuant to any and all *--------_----_---------_--_-------_----*

*This post has been redacted to reflect the interests of the United States government in regards to issues concerning national security.*

The aforementioned example is our future if our government decides it's more important to protect themselves against the people than to protect the rights of the people they represent. Pretty scary.
 
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Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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I really dont get why anyone thinks Obama is in any way better than Bush. He is really much the same, just a different party.
Yeah, that's how I feel. I thought he'd take a very aggressive, far left stance, but instead he's continued virtually all of GWB's policies and expanded some. I'm definitely down for 4 more years of Obama. :thumbsup:

I'm really left wondering why the GOP spews such virulent hatred towards Obama when he's done virtually everything their way, and caved to every demand they've ever made.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Those stink'in *-------* at the *---* have got to be held accountable for their *---------* of the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They should be *----_------* for such *-----_---* and *----* for *--------_---_-----_-----* pursuant to any and all *--------_----_---------_--_-------_----*

*This post has been redacted to reflect the interests of the United States government in regards to issues concerning national security.*

The aforementioned example is our future if our government decides it's more important to protect themselves against the people than to protect the rights of the people they represent. Pretty scary.
Without a state, there is no "people." Just stateless nomads without a cause, a flag or a name. The needs of the state must always come first, because if the state isn't healthy, it's wards certainly won't be.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
76
Yeah, that's how I feel. I thought he'd take a very aggressive, far left stance, but instead he's continued virtually all of GWB's policies and expanded some. I'm definitely down for 4 more years of Obama. :thumbsup:

I'm really left wondering why the GOP spews such virulent hatred towards Obama when he's done virtually everything their way, and caved to every demand they've ever made.
It's part of the Kabuki show, the pretense that there is a difference between the parties.
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
Yup, another civil war would be great.
Cutting off inbred vomit would work wonders for this country. The last coke head hypocrite from America's grundle led this country into the shitter. We don't want any more cowboys.

On topic; I am not surprised.

Then again, don't do anything wrong and you won't have to worry about the gubnament coming after you. It's the same as breaking and entering; don't want to get shot in the face with my 100 automatic full pump action 4.5 double turbo rifle rocket launch? Well, don't break into my house.

Some of you need to follow your own logic.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
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To your specific question, the citizens have no legal 'standing'. It's a government choice.
I'm surprised you have a problem with this given the amount of time and effort you expend attempting to convince everyone that "Government knows best"...
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,390
25,174
136
The CIA are definitely going to be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
I always find it strange that people in America view the CIA as this rogue, unaccountable agency. While maybe the destruction of the tapes in this case is an example of the agency doing something it wasn't supposed to, pretty much every positive action the CIA takes is done with explicit authorization by the executive. Every covert action, without exception, is required to have a signed presidential order on file.

Ie: it does things because it's ordered to do them, not because there are some crazy guys in there running wild.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
12,395
3,754
136
Without a state, there is no "people." Just stateless nomads without a cause, a flag or a name. The needs of the state must always come first, because if the state isn't healthy, it's wards certainly won't be.
Within context given, I agree. However, a "healthy" fascist sate, or say, a "healthy" theocracy are alternatives that we, as a Democracy, would not even consider an acceptable form of government given the rights and freedoms we now enjoy.

As it stands, if things keep headed in the direction the Repubs are pushing the nation toward, where those with the most money dictate how our government is run, then a transformation into an oligarchy or plutocracy is the inevitable result.

So permit me to rephrase a part of your commentary and say that "the needs of the majority must outweigh the needs of the few, for in our system of gov't, the few will always be the rich whose true nature must be kept in check".
 
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GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
Well, the good news is that the CIA isn't normally in the business of building "cases;" so, any such law should/would have little or no effect on their ability to collect the intelligence necessary to defend our national interests and protect our people.

Hopefully, they're smart enough to simply stop filming their activities... problem solved.
Pathetic that someone that claims to be in the military would argue in support or illegal activities. Why does the phrase, "not fit to wear the uniform" come to mind?

So you support that the CIA can do what it wants and not be held accountable? They knowingly ignored a US Federal court order.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
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Pathetic that someone that claims to be in the military would argue in support or illegal activities. Why does the phrase, "not fit to wear the uniform" come to mind?

So you support that the CIA can do what it wants and not be held accountable? They knowingly ignored a US Federal court order.
The CIA gets the job done. Most of the time. Sometimes they turn things into a huge cluster fuck (ref Raymond Davis in Pakistan.) I'm in a uniform right now and I have no problem with the CIA doing whatever they need to do, just like they've done for the past 15 years.
 

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