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Court rules CIA is above the law

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
I'm not surprised. I recall the controversy over the destroyed tapes from media reports years ago.

The laws will need to change to make these kinds of things easier to prosecute. In this case there was too much confusion over who in the agency knew about the court orders and/or the existence of the tapes. Doubtless there was wrongdoing here, probably criminal wrongdoing, but prosecution was difficult.

It should be a crime for the agency to destroy any of its case related documents for a period of x years. That would simplify the issue, make documents destruction a lot less likely, and easier to prosecute where it does occur.
 

guyver01

Lifer
Sep 25, 2000
22,151
4
61
IIRC, this was a "Freedom of Information Act" request...

it's not like they destroyed evidence in a case.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
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It should be a crime for the agency to destroy any of its case related documents for a period of x years.
Well, the good news is that the CIA isn't normally in the business of building "cases;" so, any such law should/would have little or no effect on their ability to collect the intelligence necessary to defend our national interests and protect our people.

Hopefully, they're smart enough to simply stop filming their activities... problem solved.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Well, the good news is that the CIA isn't normally in the business of building "cases;" so, any such law should/would have little or no effect on their ability to collect the intelligence necessary to defend our national interests and protect our people.

Hopefully, they're smart enough to simply stop filming their activities... problem solved.
What I meant by case related is relating to actual field work rather than just administrative stuff like employee vacation schedules.

I fail to see how precluding them from destroying such documents would cause them a problem so long as they are operating within the law.
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
10,938
230
106
Was it actively destroyed to prevent being seen in court or was it a case of tapes usually are destroyed after so many years and it didn't make it down the line that these tapes shouldn't be?
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
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~revolution calling, revolution calling...

Kill every government official and CIA employee. Leave their bodies on display as a warning to future generations about secrecy and authoritarianism. Problem solved.

Curb what I hope is your rhetoric, and please do not post in this manner again here.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Was it actively destroyed to prevent being seen in court or was it a case of tapes usually are destroyed after so many years and it didn't make it down the line that these tapes shouldn't be?
Neither. The tapes were kept in a field office in Thailand where the interrogations had taken place. After the CIA's treatment of detainees started to come under media scrutiny, some people in the field office decided to destroy the tapes to avoid bad publicity. The tapes apparently depict 88 incidents of water boarding, some more severe than even what the Bush DoJ said was legal.

The trouble here is that it can't be established that the people in the field knew about the court orders, or that people who knew of the court orders authorizaed the destruction of the tapes. There is an e-mail from the CIA legal counsel a day after the destruction that shows him being outraged that it had happened without consulting him. It's distinctly possible that someone with knowledge of the order had advance knowledge of the intent to destroy the tapes. However, it isn't possible to prove it one way or the other.

- wolf
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
78,804
11,774
126
This is hardly a surprise but its nice to see the government openly state it, as opposed to bullshitting us like they've done for years.
 

guyver01

Lifer
Sep 25, 2000
22,151
4
61
~revolution calling, revolution calling...

Kill every government official and CIA employee. Leave their bodies on display as a warning to future generations about secrecy and authoritarianism. Problem solved.
:rolleyes:

So... this is what Batshit insane looks like?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
192
106
~revolution calling, revolution calling...

Kill every government official and CIA employee. Leave their bodies on display as a warning to future generations about secrecy and authoritarianism. Problem solved.
You should be a little more careful of what you post.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,212
126
I fail to see how precluding them from destroying such documents would cause them a problem so long as they are operating within the law.
I believe it was illegal for these tapes to be destroyed. Certainly there seems to be no Constitutional grounds which would allow them to ignore a court order.

The Obama administration argued that there should not be any penalty for doing so and the judge agreed. One can get away illegal acts if those who enforce the law refuse to do so.
 

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