Court orders to attend AA? (alcoholics anonymous)

[DrPizza]

I was just thinking (after reading one of the southpark threads) - can a court really order someone to attend AA? I've heard that they do, but doesn't that violate separation of church and state? (AA seems to be a rather religious organization)
AA's 12 religious step program

And, bizarrely, would someone be able to appeal their sentence because it violates their rights? (And, if they won the appeal, would it just result in "okay, no AA for you.. county jail for 6 extra months instead.)

 

[DaTT]

Don't know, but I would rather some AA sessions over jail time any day.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I was just thinking (after reading one of the southpark threads) - can a court really order someone to attend AA? I've heard that they do, but doesn't that violate separation of church and state? (AA seems to be a rather religious organization)
AA's 12 religious step program

And, bizarrely, would someone be able to appeal their sentence because it violates their rights? (And, if they won the appeal, would it just result in "okay, no AA for you.. county jail for 6 extra months instead.)

how would this be a violation of right?

if you won the appeal, a court cant go back and just change the holding. also, a judge has quite a bit if discretion on what type of penalty to use

 

[BigJ]

South Park was an extremely overexaggerated statement of what AA really is. All it is is a "Higher Power". Whether that higher power is the Universe itself, the laws of the universe, or a belief in a God, it doesn't matter.

 

[Rastus]

The courts don't really order you to AA or any other treatment program. They order you to make a choice between a treatment program or a stiffer sentence. In the days of the military draft, delinquents were given the choice between going in the Army for three years or a five year prison sentence.

Almost all addiction treatments incorporate the 12 step program that originated from AA. It's a head scratcher why some of the most antireligion people are so big on advocating the 12 step program. Politics, bedfellows.

 

[ChaoZ]

Originally posted by: BigJ
South Park was an extremely overexaggerated statement of what AA really is. All it is is a "Higher Power". Whether that higher power is the Universe itself, the laws of the universe, or a belief in a God, it doesn't matter.

It clearly states "God" and not some "higher power".

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
It clearly states "God" and not some "higher power".

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

How you interpret "God" is pretty open-ended, but certainly there are people who believe in no higher power in the universe. If they're going to give you a choice between a stiffer sentence or AA, they ought to allow the option of using an equally effective non-religious program.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: BigJ
South Park was an extremely overexaggerated statement of what AA really is. All it is is a "Higher Power". Whether that higher power is the Universe itself, the laws of the universe, or a belief in a God, it doesn't matter.

*buzzer* So sorry, but that's completely wrong, but you do get these lovely parting gifts....

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol ? that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

4 of those 12 steps specifically mention God, not to mention the others with terms like "Him". AA is a religious organization, no matter what spin you put on it. AA requires you to believe in a Creator/etc. who will make everything better. This requirement runs completely counter to Atheism and a number of other belief systems.

Now as to court orders to go to AA, as far as I know almost all court orders for alcohol abuse treatment are not specifically for AA. Usually the judge will order you to "enroll in a 12-step program," or, "complete an alcoholism recovery program," or something to that effect. There are plenty of organizations out there like AA that do not involve "God" or "a Higher Power" or anything like that which will satisfy that requirement of sentancing. If the court order was specifically for AA there's still a good chance you could talk to the Judge/DA/etc. and get it changed to a different rehab program, so long as it was a real organization and not just "Ed's sit-on-the-couch-drinking-beer Rehab Program."

 

[SilentZero]

Yes I believe it can.

 

[Ornery]

1. Could be worse! :Q

 

[0roo0roo]

yea the penn and teller bullsh*t episode on it was good. i think it was also in skeptic magazine. the main problem with aa is that its ineffective to such a degree that it is no better than no program at all😛 http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html any support is pseudo science, and the rest is just religious bs. and yes it is basically screwing with church and state separation.