Court orders SWAT team to break into house and take child to hospital for minor head injury

[Queasy]

Link

NEW CASTLE, Colo. (AP) ? A tactical law enforcement team broke into Tom Shiflett's home and took his 11-year-old son to hospital for court-ordered medical treatment for a minor head injury.

Garfield County's All Hazards Response Team raided the home Friday night, a day after Jon Shiflett fell after grabbing the handle of a moving car. The child was returned to the family at about 2:30 a.m. Saturday, hours after the raid.

"Inappropriate is not nearly strong enough a word. It was gross irresponsibility and stupidity," said Ross Talbott, owner of the Apple Tree Mobile Home Park south of New Castle who rents to the Shifletts and who witnessed the raid. "Is this Russia? I don't know what we're coming to when they think your kid needs medical help and they send a SWAT team."

In the end, the injury wasn't as severe as caseworkers from the Garfield County Department of Social Services thought when they went before a judge seeking a search warrant and order for medical treatment.

The doctor recommended fluids, Tylenol and ice to treat the bruises, according to a copy of Jon's patient aftercare instructions.

Tom Shiflett, 62, who said he served as a medic in Vietnam, had told authorities that he had the skill to treat his son.

Garfield County sheriff's spokeswoman Tanny McGinnis said two deputies were first sent to notify Shiflett of a court order for his son's medical treatment and that Shiflett did not comply.

Caseworkers who visited the family Friday reported seeing injuries that including a "huge hematoma" and a sluggish pupil.

Six of Tom and Tina Shiflett's 10 children still live at home.

"In all there was not one shred of evidence found that we had done anything wrong or that Jon had not been properly cared for at home," Tina Shiflett said.

:frown:

 

[Linflas]

They already have a big thread over in P&N bashing each other over this story.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Linflas
They already have a big thread over in P&N bashing each other over this story.

I try not to go over there. So, mods feel free to lock this up if you feel it is warranted.

 

[Lithium381]

what is there to bash about? other than the swat..../ jugde

 

[Jeff7]

How did the court system even find out about this? I don't think they knew about every time I got hurt as a child.

"The doctor recommended fluids, Tylenol, and ice to treat the bruises..."
Oh my god, Tylenol and ice???? This surely would have been fatal if left untreated by such advanced medical science!

Ok, I see how - "caseworkers" visited. Were they there on other business? Better yet, did they have any medical training whatsoever?



Garfield County.
Jon Shiflett.

Heh heh. Heh heh. Cool.

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Linflas
They already have a big thread over in P&N bashing each other over this story.

I try not to go over there. So, mods feel free to lock this up if you feel it is warranted.

With good cause. There's nothing positive going on in that thread anyway.

 

[moshquerade]

62 y/o? 10kids? stop.having.kids.now.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Lithium381
what is there to bash about? other than the swat..../ jugde

Nanny government is the ultimate in good even when they have little slip-ups like this vs. government is the fount of all evil and should be banished from the planet with all sorts of little side excursions into various pet political thoughts. In otherwords pretty much your standard P&N "discussion".

 

[waggy]

wow talk about overkill.


obviously the guy had the training to take care of the kid.

 

[torpid]

I don't know if a full swat team was necessary but otherwise I say good for the court. Let's take this into consideration:

A) It was a trailer park
B) At least 7 people live in one trailer
C) They have a case worker visiting them
D) The kid appeared seriously injured to a case worker
E) The father refused to comply with the initial demand from a sheriff that he take his kid for medical attention
F) Even if the father worked as a medic several dozen years ago, that does not mean he had adequate equipment or expertise to treat a serious head injury

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: torpid
I don't know if a full swat team was necessary but otherwise I say good for the court. Let's take this into consideration:

A) It was a trailer park
B) At least 7 people live in one trailer
C) They have a case worker visiting them
D) The kid appeared seriously injured to a case worker
E) The father refused to comply with the initial demand from a sheriff that he take his kid for medical attention
F) Even if the father worked as a medic several dozen years ago, that does not mean he had adequate equipment or expertise to treat a serious head injury

a) so the poor can't make decisions?
b) again so what?
c) again so what?
d) the case worker has NO TRAINING in it.
e) why should he have to? the man (only one in the whole thing) has medical training.
f) you do not need anything ot know if he has a concussion or such.


in short this is bullshit and overkill.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: torpid
I don't know if a full swat team was necessary but otherwise I say good for the court. Let's take this into consideration:

A) It was a trailer park
B) At least 7 people live in one trailer
C) They have a case worker visiting them
D) The kid appeared seriously injured to a case worker
E) The father refused to comply with the initial demand from a sheriff that he take his kid for medical attention
F) Even if the father worked as a medic several dozen years ago, that does not mean he had adequate equipment or expertise to treat a serious head injury

THE KID DID NOT HAVE A SERIOUS HEAD INJURY!!!! A combat medic would know the difference between a bruise and a "huge hemotoma"

and who are you to judge on where people live?

its the stupid ass case worker who didnt have the training to see what was wrong with the kid. he/she is the one who should be fired along with the swat team, judge and police chief. this is gestapo tactics plain and simple. i hope this father sues large and wins large.

 

[AMCRambler]

The case workers were already looking at this family for reasons not mentioned in this article. If there was a history of abuse then they would be suspicious with good reason. Sure it was a mistake, but nobody got hurt because of it. They could have avoided the whole foolishness by taking the kid to the doctor when the Sheriff notified them.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: torpid
I don't know if a full swat team was necessary but otherwise I say good for the court. Let's take this into consideration:

A) It was a trailer park
B) At least 7 people live in one trailer
C) They have a case worker visiting them
D) The kid appeared seriously injured to a case worker
E) The father refused to comply with the initial demand from a sheriff that he take his kid for medical attention
F) Even if the father worked as a medic several dozen years ago, that does not mean he had adequate equipment or expertise to treat a serious head injury

a) so the poor can't make decisions?
b) again so what?
c) again so what?
d) the case worker has NO TRAINING in it.
e) why should he have to? the man (only one in the whole thing) has medical training.
f) you do not need anything ot know if he has a concussion or such.


in short this is bullshit and overkill.

A-C) Just some poor, like people who think medic training from the vietnam era is enough to replace doctors with medical degrees and real medical equipment.
D) Neither did the father. The purpose of a case worker is to ensure the welfare of people.
E) Not for dozens of years, and not anywhere near the training that is required to assess a head injury.
F) You need training and equipment if it's a serious concussion

I don't know about you but if a sheriff comes to visit my family shortly after a case worker does, and tells me I have to take my kid in for medical attention, I'm going to do it instead of refusing.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
The case workers were already looking at this family for reasons not mentioned in this article. If there was a history of abuse then they would be suspicious with good reason. Sure it was a mistake, but nobody got hurt because of it. They could have avoided the whole foolishness by taking the kid to the doctor when the Sheriff notified them.

1. nobody got hurt so its all good? please that is weak.

2. cant parents be parents with out the GOVERNMENT telling me or him that i HAVE to take the kid in for a bruise? cant parents make decisions anymore?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: torpid
I don't know if a full swat team was necessary but otherwise I say good for the court. Let's take this into consideration:

A) It was a trailer park
B) At least 7 people live in one trailer
C) They have a case worker visiting them
D) The kid appeared seriously injured to a case worker
E) The father refused to comply with the initial demand from a sheriff that he take his kid for medical attention
F) Even if the father worked as a medic several dozen years ago, that does not mean he had adequate equipment or expertise to treat a serious head injury

a) so the poor can't make decisions?
b) again so what?
c) again so what?
d) the case worker has NO TRAINING in it.
e) why should he have to? the man (only one in the whole thing) has medical training.
f) you do not need anything ot know if he has a concussion or such.


in short this is bullshit and overkill.

A-C) Just some poor, like people who think medic training from the vietnam era is enough to replace doctors with medical degrees and real medical equipment.
D) Neither did the father. The purpose of a case worker is to ensure the welfare of people.
E) Not for dozens of years, and not anywhere near the training that is required to assess a head injury.
F) You need training and equipment if it's a serious concussion

I don't know about you but if a sheriff comes to visit my family shortly after a case worker does, and tells me I have to take my kid in for medical attention, I'm going to do it instead of refusing.

a-c) i am willing to bed the training the medic recieved in vietnam is far better then the case worker, sheriff and good portion of the poeple here.
d) he did have training. enough to know if the child needs to go to the emergancy room or not
e) so every time a child falls we should take them to the emergancy room? are you fucking nuts?
F)see E

if a sheriff tells me i have to do something that is none of his businesss i will tell him to fuck off.

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: torpid
I don't know if a full swat team was necessary but otherwise I say good for the court. Let's take this into consideration:

A) It was a trailer park
B) At least 7 people live in one trailer
C) They have a case worker visiting them
D) The kid appeared seriously injured to a case worker
E) The father refused to comply with the initial demand from a sheriff that he take his kid for medical attention
F) Even if the father worked as a medic several dozen years ago, that does not mean he had adequate equipment or expertise to treat a serious head injury

a) so the poor can't make decisions?
b) again so what?
c) again so what?
d) the case worker has NO TRAINING in it.
e) why should he have to? the man (only one in the whole thing) has medical training.
f) you do not need anything ot know if he has a concussion or such.


in short this is bullshit and overkill.

A-C) Just some poor, like people who think medic training from the vietnam era is enough to replace doctors with medical degrees and real medical equipment.
D) Neither did the father. The purpose of a case worker is to ensure the welfare of people.
E) Not for dozens of years, and not anywhere near the training that is required to assess a head injury.
F) You need training and equipment if it's a serious concussion

I don't know about you but if a sheriff comes to visit my family shortly after a case worker does, and tells me I have to take my kid in for medical attention, I'm going to do it instead of refusing.

a-c) i am willing to bed the training the medic recieved in vietnam is far better then the case worker, sheriff and good portion of the poeple here.
d) he did have training. enough to know if the child needs to go to the emergancy room or not
e) so every time a child falls we should take them to the emergancy room? are you fucking nuts?
F)see E

if a sheriff tells me i have to do something that is none of his businesss i will tell him to fuck off.

I don't really care one way or another about this issue, but since you inserting the word fuck into your arguments, they are clearly more believable. Bravo.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: torpid
I don't know if a full swat team was necessary but otherwise I say good for the court. Let's take this into consideration:

A) It was a trailer park
B) At least 7 people live in one trailer
C) They have a case worker visiting them
D) The kid appeared seriously injured to a case worker
E) The father refused to comply with the initial demand from a sheriff that he take his kid for medical attention
F) Even if the father worked as a medic several dozen years ago, that does not mean he had adequate equipment or expertise to treat a serious head injury

THE KID DID NOT HAVE A SERIOUS HEAD INJURY!!!! A combat medic would know the difference between a bruise and a "huge hemotoma"

and who are you to judge on where people live?

its the stupid ass case worker who didnt have the training to see what was wrong with the kid. he/she is the one who should be fired along with the swat team, judge and police chief. this is gestapo tactics plain and simple. i hope this father sues large and wins large.

It doesn't matter whether the kid ultimately had a serious head injury. A head injury of unknown origin was observed by a case worker who was likely there to ensure that the children were properly cared for. The father refused to comply with a basic, reasonable request to have the head injury looked at when sheriffs visited him. He is not a licensed doctor and he is not entirely trustworthy in this instance.

"What's that giant bruise on his head?"
"Oh, he fell"
"Take him to a doctor"
"No, I was a medic in vietnam, I know he's fine"

Yeah, I'm going to just let that one go.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: waggy
a-c) i am willing to bed the training the medic recieved in vietnam is far better then the case worker, sheriff and good portion of the poeple here.
d) he did have training. enough to know if the child needs to go to the emergancy room or not
e) so every time a child falls we should take them to the emergancy room? are you fucking nuts?
F)see E

a-c) Irrelevant, it's not enough to render a valid medical opinion
d) he had outdated training and there is no reason to believe it was adequate to assess whether the kid is seriously injured or not.
e) no, but every time a case worker says you should take the kid to a doctor and then a sheriff shows up saying the same, you should probably do so. why in the hell would the case worker believe him?

if a sheriff tells me i have to do something that is none of his businesss i will tell him to fuck off.

Then you have no right to complain when the police bust down your door.

 

[everman]

The court didn't do anything wrong here because the case workers over-exaggerated the injuries. The court believed the case workers, that the child was severely injured and in need of medical care at a hospital. The way I see it is that the court acted in the best interest of the child, it is the case workers who are at fault for providing bad information. If it was believed to be a life or death situation, then a swat team would not be too much.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

If you complain about your neighbour not returning the lawnmower, do they send special ops in?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: torpid
I don't know if a full swat team was necessary but otherwise I say good for the court. Let's take this into consideration:

A) It was a trailer park
B) At least 7 people live in one trailer
C) They have a case worker visiting them
D) The kid appeared seriously injured to a case worker
E) The father refused to comply with the initial demand from a sheriff that he take his kid for medical attention
F) Even if the father worked as a medic several dozen years ago, that does not mean he had adequate equipment or expertise to treat a serious head injury

THE KID DID NOT HAVE A SERIOUS HEAD INJURY!!!! A combat medic would know the difference between a bruise and a "huge hemotoma"

and who are you to judge on where people live?

its the stupid ass case worker who didnt have the training to see what was wrong with the kid. he/she is the one who should be fired along with the swat team, judge and police chief. this is gestapo tactics plain and simple. i hope this father sues large and wins large.

It doesn't matter whether the kid ultimately had a serious head injury. A head injury of unknown origin was observed by a case worker who was likely there to ensure that the children were properly cared for. The father refused to comply with a basic, reasonable request to have the head injury looked at when sheriffs visited him. He is not a licensed doctor and he is not entirely trustworthy in this instance.

"What's that giant bruise on his head?"
"Oh, he fell"
"Take him to a doctor"
"No, I was a medic in vietnam, I know he's fine"

Yeah, I'm going to just let that one go.

do have kids? im going to guess no. kids are a walking bruise. my daughter ALWAYS has them on her even gets them on her head.

heck even her doctor says that the only time he really worries is when the kids do not have bruising or if they are just on the buttocks etc.

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
If you complain about your neighbour not returning the lawnmower, do they send special ops in?

The safety of your lawnmower does not equal the safety of a child

Again, I don't have strong feelings on this argument one way or another. If the caseworker was that concerned, then so be it, I wasn't there so I can't fault them. Your argument, however, is stupid.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Originally posted by: waggy
if a sheriff tells me i have to do something that is none of his businesss i will tell him to fuck off.

:laugh::beer:

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: MmmSkyscraper
If you complain about your neighbour not returning the lawnmower, do they send special ops in?

err..did you hit your head or something?

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Originally posted by: Slick5150
The safety of your lawnmower does not equal the safety of a child

It was a joke, never mind.