Couple Of Dumb Questions Regarding Thermal Paste And Memory OCing

[IkeEisenhower]

I put a chunk of my tax refund cheque into a major upgrade for my current patchwork system, consisting of a 2.8C, a Thermalright SP-94, an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe, and some OCZ 3700 Gold R.2, and my intent is to get this setup running, ideally, at 1000MHz FSB, as this is where that particular memory hits its peak. I've always been afraid of messing with thermal components, be they pads, grease, epoxy, or the components themselves, and so I never learned how to properly apply a heatsink using paste. My first newbie question, then, is just how should I go about doing that(?), in as much detail as you can provide. A visual guide would be tops as well.

Now, I've heard a few bad things about that particular mobo erroneously reporting CPU temps, and a while back I managed to get a Coolermaster Cooldrive 4 on the cheap, and I plan to run one of the probes to the CPU anyway. Sounds great until I picture it. I can't very well wedge the mother between HS and CPU, and the idea of putting electrical tape that close to such a hot component worries me. Where do I put the probe, and (Coolermaster graciously left out the frag tape) how do I get it to stay there? Run electrical tape from IC to IC? Where can I stick the _tape_?

My final question is most on-topic, as it refers to the actual overclocking of this memory. For all I've studied the process, because of the liability of the components I had up until now, I never actually experimented with memory overclocking. I'm certain that this tough RAM will do DDR500 at 2.5-3-3-7 at 2.75v or 2.8v; it's warranted up to 3v, and I'm sure the Asus mobo can take it no sweat, but the other bad things I've heard concern the Northwood processors and their supposedly limited headroom per the 800MHz (200 quad-pumped) external frequency. I'm assuming (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) that the only way I can overclock this memory is to raise the FSB to 1000MHz (250 quad-pumped). That would, in turn (again, speculation), result in an effective increase in the CPU frequency to 3.5GHz, which I'm fairly certain is not feasible for an air-cooled system. I'm really not going to be happy if my processor turns out to be the limiting factor in getting the most from my memory! What can I do, or have I miscalculated?


I appreciate any input and I thnak you for any replies in advance.

 

[exar333]

You should be able to lower the CPU multiplier so that you can set the fsb to 250 and the multiplier somehwere around 12.5 or 13....that should get the speed ~3.2 or so...shouldnt be a prob with your setup...

 

[Soulkeeper]

make sure you have good northbridge cooling too
and if you use thermal compound on memory modules be carefull to use some nonconductive stuff like artic alumina
too many traces to get messed up
some people even put silicon on the traces to protect them
i've even heard of people lapping the dram modules to make them more flat and stuff


good luck, but be carefull

 

[Margalus]

throw the probe in the trash. Those are the worst things you can do to a cpu. the p4c800 reports very accurate temps. It is the abit ic7 that reports wrong temps.

btw, it is very feasable to run this setup at extremely high fsb's. My 2.8C on that motherboard runs 245mhz fsb 1:1 without a hitch, and it is only that slow because I have an old, crappy 2.8C. With the new M0 stepping 2.8C's you should hit 260-270mhz fsb easily with that cpu and the sp-94. Even my 2.8E prescott can do 260mhz fsb with that board and an old slk-900U. I think you will be amazed at what you will get out of that combo. The highest I have been able to get my 2.4C 1:1 on that board is a 298mhz fsb 1:1

what kind of thermal paste are you going to use? arctic silver has instructions for all of their pastes on their website.

 

[IkeEisenhower]

Originally posted by: Margalus
throw the probe in the trash. Those are the worst things you can do to a cpu. the p4c800 reports very accurate temps. It is the abit ic7 that reports wrong temps.

Ah. Thanks for the info. Good to hear from someone with the same setup. Well, since I'm going to be OCing the system, then, is there any way I can take a lead from the MB to my fan controller so's I can keep an eye on those temps? Or do I have to just keep the software up or handy? (I'm real picky/anal about background apps/ops, try to keep as few as absolutely essential)

Originally posted by: Margalus
btw, it is very feasable to run this setup at extremely high fsb's. My 2.8C on that motherboard runs 245mhz fsb 1:1 without a hitch, and it is only that slow because I have an old, crappy 2.8C. With the new M0 stepping 2.8C's you should hit 260-270mhz fsb easily with that cpu and the sp-94. Even my 2.8E prescott can do 260mhz fsb with that board and an old slk-900U. I think you will be amazed at what you will get out of that combo. The highest I have been able to get my 2.4C 1:1 on that board is a 298mhz fsb 1:1

Wow. I shuddered at the thought of running a 2.8 at 3.5 with air, even with the Thermalright heatpipe HS and fan. I should get decent airflow in the case (a Coolermaster ATC-201), given two 80s front intake, an 80 blowhole, and an 80 rear exhaust, and I went with the Panaflow M series 92mm for the HS, but what kind of processor temps are you hitting under load? I have faith in the toughness of the Northwoods, but doesn't a 25% overclock also require some voltage increase and thus skyrocket temps? I hope it doesn't. Anyway, how do you change the multiplier, what is the Asus-speak term for "multiplier"?

Originally posted by: Margaluswhat kind of thermal paste are you going to use? arctic silver has instructions for all of their pastes on their website.

I went with AS5, I couldn't think of a reason not to. Thanks for the info, I guess the pucker factor increase when I thought of cooling a 3.5GHz Northwood addled my good sense out of looking in the obvious places. Still, do you have any hints or tips not covered officially? Thanks for all your help, and for your time in corresponding.

 

[IkeEisenhower]

Originally posted by: exar333
You should be able to lower the CPU multiplier so that you can set the fsb to 250 and the multiplier somehwere around 12.5 or 13....that should get the speed ~3.2 or so...shouldnt be a prob with your setup...

Aha. Lowered my blood pressure some. Exactly how is this done, which setting?
Thanks for your advice and your time.

 

[Peter D]

Originally posted by: exar333
You should be able to lower the CPU multiplier so that you can set the fsb to 250 and the multiplier somehwere around 12.5 or 13....that should get the speed ~3.2 or so...shouldnt be a prob with your setup...

Err, on an Intel chip? AFAIK, all multipliers are locked on Intel chips except for Engineering Samples..

IkeEisenhower, maybe my contribution to mechBgon's computer building guide can help on the thermal paste front. Hope that helps.

 

[Margalus]

Originally posted by: IkeEisenhower

Ah. Thanks for the info. Good to hear from someone with the same setup. Well, since I'm going to be OCing the system, then, is there any way I can take a lead from the MB to my fan controller so's I can keep an eye on those temps? Or do I have to just keep the software up or handy? (I'm real picky/anal about background apps/ops, try to keep as few as absolutely essential)

I don't know of any way to get the temps from the mobo to your display. I use mbm5 to monitor and LOG the temps and voltages.

Wow. I shuddered at the thought of running a 2.8 at 3.5 with air, even with the Thermalright heatpipe HS and fan. I should get decent airflow in the case (a Coolermaster ATC-201), given two 80s front intake, an 80 blowhole, and an 80 rear exhaust, and I went with the Panaflow M series 92mm for the HS, but what kind of processor temps are you hitting under load? I have faith in the toughness of the Northwoods, but doesn't a 25% overclock also require some voltage increase and thus skyrocket temps? I hope it doesn't. Anyway, how do you change the multiplier, what is the Asus-speak term for "multiplier"?

Using a panaflo 92mm I get full load temps of around 38°C on the 2.8C @ 3.43ghz with the vcore at 1.675. raising the speed and vcore does not cause the temps to skyrocket with a thermalright heatsink. The new M0 stepping 2.8's can do at least 3.5-3.6ghz with stock vcore they are so good. My 2.8E prescott @ 3.6ghz with the slk900U runs about 45-47C under full load.

I went with AS5, I couldn't think of a reason not to. Thanks for the info, I guess the pucker factor increase when I thought of cooling a 3.5GHz Northwood addled my good sense out of looking in the obvious places. Still, do you have any hints or tips not covered officially? Thanks for all your help, and for your time in corresponding.

as5 can be a pain to use. The method that arctic silver recommends generally works well. But what I do is put it on a bit thicker than they recommend and then smash it down with the heatsink like they say. I then remove the heatsink and use a razor blade to remove almost all of the as5 from the heatsink and then use the blade to make sure the layer on the cpu is so thin that I can almost read the printing on the top of the core. that seems to work best for me with as5. I really don't like as5 though, it is too thick and gooey. I either use as3 if I can find it now, or as ceramique. I like both of them better than as5 because they are a little easier to use efficiently, and give the same results.

 

[IkeEisenhower]

Originally posted by: Margalus

Using a panaflo 92mm I get full load temps of around 38°C on the 2.8C @ 3.43ghz with the vcore at 1.675. raising the speed and vcore does not cause the temps to skyrocket with a thermalright heatsink. The new M0 stepping 2.8's can do at least 3.5-3.6ghz with stock vcore they are so good. My 2.8E prescott @ 3.6ghz with the slk900U runs about 45-47C under full load.

Damn. These chips are even tougher than I thought. Assuming you're using good memory, of course, do you ever have stability issues with the processor that high?

Originally posted by: Margalus
as5 can be a pain to use. The method that arctic silver recommends generally works well. But what I do is put it on a bit thicker than they recommend and then smash it down with the heatsink like they say. I then remove the heatsink and use a razor blade to remove almost all of the as5 from the heatsink and then use the blade to make sure the layer on the cpu is so thin that I can almost read the printing on the top of the core. that seems to work best for me with as5. I really don't like as5 though, it is too thick and gooey. I either use as3 if I can find it now, or as ceramique. I like both of them better than as5 because they are a little easier to use efficiently, and give the same results.

With the way Thermalright advises me to install the thing, as long as I have ample wiggle room I think I'll be okay. I'll be all thumbs with the pins and retention devices the first five minutes, panic, set it down, then I'll come back and it'll be easy. Your method will probably be of more use to me, though, because with an untouched HS base, I'll have a target from the initial mashing-down to hit, whereas with the AS method it'd be guesswork. Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Margalus]

Originally posted by: IkeEisenhower

Damn. These chips are even tougher than I thought. Assuming you're using good memory, of course, do you ever have stability issues with the processor that high?

my systems are 100% stable at the speeds I run them at. I don't tolerate any instability since if it was going to be unstable it would happen at the time I want it least to happen. Such as when I am playing desert combat and kicking ass.

To test for 100% stability run the torture test in the options menu of prime95. download and use the 22.13 version here http://www.mersenne.org/gimps/p95v2213.zip

If you can go 6-8 hours without it reporting a "Hardware Error" your system will be pretty stable. If you want test for absolute stability, you can let it run for 24hours

btw, I have ocz memory If you want to run 1:1 I would recommend the ocz pc4000 gold, it will do about 280-290mhz fsb 1:1 without the voltmod

Originally posted by: IkeEisenhower

. I'll be all thumbs with the pins and retention devices the first five minutes, panic, set it down, then I'll come back and it'll be easy.

you can't hardly screw up the installation of the sp-94 since it doesn't use the retention brackets. It bolts through the motherboard which makes it very easy to install.