Counterinsurgency run amok

[Sultan]

"The people who are doing the beheadings are extremists ... the people slaughtering Iraqis - torturing in prisons and shooting wounded prisoners - are 'American heroes'. Congratulations, you must be so proud of yourselves today."
- Iraqi girl blogger Riverbend

Article

 

[conjur]

Ouch.

 

[Sultan]

some more quotes from the article:

A top Red Cross official in Baghdad now estimates that at least 800 civilians have been killed so far - and this is a "low" figure, based on accounts by Red Crescent aid workers barred by the Americans from entering the city, residents still inside Fallujah, and refugees now huddling in camps in the desert near Fallujah. The refugees tell horror stories - including confirmation, already reported by Asia Times Online, of the Americans using cluster bombs and spraying white phosphorus, a banned chemical weapon.

Weapons of Mass Destruction anyone?

Even submitted to media blackout - an al-Arabiya reporter, for instance, was arrested by the Americans because he was trying to enter Fallujah - the Arab press is slowly waking up to the full extent of the tragedy, not only on networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya, but also in newspapers like the pro-American Saudi daily Asharq a-Awsat. Our sources say that most of Baghdad and the whole Sunni triangle is already convinced that the Americans "captured" Fallujah general hospital, bombed at least two clinics and are preventing the Red Crescent from delivering urgent help because as many bodies as possible must be removed before any independent observers have a chance to evaluate the real extent of the carnage.

Winning hearts and minds

Al-Jazeera continues to apologize for not offering more in-depth coverage, always reminding its viewers that its Baghdad bureau was shut down indefinitely by Allawi in August. But many in the Arab world saw its interview with Dr Asma Khamis al-Muhannadi of Fallujah's general hospital, invaded and "captured" by the marines. She confirmed that "we were tied up and beaten despite being unarmed and having only our medical instruments"; and that the hospital was targeted by bombs and rockets during the initial siege of Fallujah. When the marines came she "was with a woman in labor. The umbilical cord had not yet been cut. At that time, a US soldier shouted at one of the [Iraqi] National Guards to arrest me and tie my hands while I was helping the mother to deliver. I will never forget this incident in my life."

Humanitarion mission...

Crucially, Dr al-Muhannadi also confirmed that American snipers killed more than 17 Iraqi doctors who had mobilized to answer an appeal from Fallujah's doctors broadcast on al-Jazeera: information on the massacre has been circulating in Baghdad for days. Amnesty International, based on the account of a doctor at the scene, says that 20 Fallujah medical staff and dozens of civilians were killed when an American missile destroyed a clinic on November 9.

Extremism? Terrorism? Obviously those doctors were insurgents :shocked:

"Iraqification" - the Mesopotamian counterpart of Vietnamization - is floundering. After 19 months of occupation, the Pentagon still has not been able to put an Iraqi army in place. Baghdad sources confirm the backup plan has been to give US troops a counterinsurgency field manual. (The exhaustive 182-page document will be discussed in a separate article.)

Obviously we are succeeding...

 

[jtusa]

Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: jtusa4
Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

No, to find the truth, you have to watch Fox News.

Next time, read the article.

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4
Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

No, to find the truth, you have to watch Fox News.

Next time, read the article.

Cliff notes?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4
Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

No, to find the truth, you have to watch Fox News.

Next time, read the article.

Cliff notes?

Read the above quotes. The article is written by Pepe Escobar. The source is to Asia Times which runs from Hong Kong. I hope you dont think Hong Kong is an anti-American nation.

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4
Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

No, to find the truth, you have to watch Fox News.

Next time, read the article.

Cliff notes?

Read the above quotes. The article is written by Pepe Escobar. The source is to Asia Times which runs from Hong Kong. I hope you dont think Hong Kong is an anti-American nation.

Hong Kong is in South America right?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4
Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

No, to find the truth, you have to watch Fox News.

Next time, read the article.

Cliff notes?

Read the above quotes. The article is written by Pepe Escobar. The source is to Asia Times which runs from Hong Kong. I hope you dont think Hong Kong is an anti-American nation.

Hong Kong is in South America right?

No, Asia.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4
Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

No, to find the truth, you have to watch Fox News.

Next time, read the article.

Cliff notes?

Read the above quotes. The article is written by Pepe Escobar. The source is to Asia Times which runs from Hong Kong. I hope you dont think Hong Kong is an anti-American nation.

Anyone wanting to cast aspersions upon Pepe Escobar should read this, an article of his from 2 weeks *before* the 9/11 attacks:

Get Osama! Now! Or else ...
http://www.atimes.com/ind-pak/CH30Df01.html

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4
Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

No, to find the truth, you have to watch Fox News.

Next time, read the article.

Cliff notes?

Read the above quotes. The article is written by Pepe Escobar. The source is to Asia Times which runs from Hong Kong. I hope you dont think Hong Kong is an anti-American nation.

Hong Kong is in South America right?

No, Asia.

Guess I should have added the </sarcasm> tag to my post...

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4
Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

No, to find the truth, you have to watch Fox News.

Next time, read the article.

Cliff notes?

Read the above quotes. The article is written by Pepe Escobar. The source is to Asia Times which runs from Hong Kong. I hope you dont think Hong Kong is an anti-American nation.

Hong Kong is in South America right?

No, Asia.

Guess I should have added the </sarcasm> tag to my post...

As should I. Read the article now, and please stay on topic

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4
Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

No, to find the truth, you have to watch Fox News.

Next time, read the article.

Cliff notes?

Read the above quotes. The article is written by Pepe Escobar. The source is to Asia Times which runs from Hong Kong. I hope you dont think Hong Kong is an anti-American nation.

Hong Kong is in South America right?

No, Asia.

Guess I should have added the </sarcasm> tag to my post...

As should I. Read the article now, and please stay on topic

What was the topic again?

(Haha, sorry, gotta keep a little humor in here for you P&amp;N regulars.)

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: jtusa4
What was the topic again?

(Haha, sorry, gotta keep a little humor in here for you P&amp;N regulars.)

"The people who are doing the beheadings are extremists ... the people slaughtering Iraqis - torturing in prisons and shooting wounded prisoners - are 'American heroes'. Congratulations, you must be so proud of yourselves today."
- Iraqi girl blogger Riverbend

Article

some more quotes from the article:

A top Red Cross official in Baghdad now estimates that at least 800 civilians have been killed so far - and this is a "low" figure, based on accounts by Red Crescent aid workers barred by the Americans from entering the city, residents still inside Fallujah, and refugees now huddling in camps in the desert near Fallujah. The refugees tell horror stories - including confirmation, already reported by Asia Times Online, of the Americans using cluster bombs and spraying white phosphorus, a banned chemical weapon.

Weapons of Mass Destruction anyone?

Even submitted to media blackout - an al-Arabiya reporter, for instance, was arrested by the Americans because he was trying to enter Fallujah - the Arab press is slowly waking up to the full extent of the tragedy, not only on networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya, but also in newspapers like the pro-American Saudi daily Asharq a-Awsat. Our sources say that most of Baghdad and the whole Sunni triangle is already convinced that the Americans "captured" Fallujah general hospital, bombed at least two clinics and are preventing the Red Crescent from delivering urgent help because as many bodies as possible must be removed before any independent observers have a chance to evaluate the real extent of the carnage.

Winning hearts and minds

Al-Jazeera continues to apologize for not offering more in-depth coverage, always reminding its viewers that its Baghdad bureau was shut down indefinitely by Allawi in August. But many in the Arab world saw its interview with Dr Asma Khamis al-Muhannadi of Fallujah's general hospital, invaded and "captured" by the marines. She confirmed that "we were tied up and beaten despite being unarmed and having only our medical instruments"; and that the hospital was targeted by bombs and rockets during the initial siege of Fallujah. When the marines came she "was with a woman in labor. The umbilical cord had not yet been cut. At that time, a US soldier shouted at one of the [Iraqi] National Guards to arrest me and tie my hands while I was helping the mother to deliver. I will never forget this incident in my life."

Humanitarion mission...

Crucially, Dr al-Muhannadi also confirmed that American snipers killed more than 17 Iraqi doctors who had mobilized to answer an appeal from Fallujah's doctors broadcast on al-Jazeera: information on the massacre has been circulating in Baghdad for days. Amnesty International, based on the account of a doctor at the scene, says that 20 Fallujah medical staff and dozens of civilians were killed when an American missile destroyed a clinic on November 9.

Extremism? Terrorism? Obviously those doctors were insurgents :shocked:

"Iraqification" - the Mesopotamian counterpart of Vietnamization - is floundering. After 19 months of occupation, the Pentagon still has not been able to put an Iraqi army in place. Baghdad sources confirm the backup plan has been to give US troops a counterinsurgency field manual. (The exhaustive 182-page document will be discussed in a separate article.)

Obviously we are succeeding...

Originally posted by: conjur
Anyone wanting to cast aspersions upon Pepe Escobar should read this, an article of his from 2 weeks *before* the 9/11 attacks:

Get Osama! Now! Or else ...
http://www.atimes.com/ind-pak/CH30Df01.html

 

[Format C:]

The refugees tell horror stories - including confirmation, already reported by Asia Times Online, of the Americans using cluster bombs and spraying white phosphorus, a banned chemical weapon.

Why don't YOU read the article? Anyone that can't see the clear bias in this report is a complete and total idiot. Well, nm. I think thats a point already been proven. Repeatedly.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Format C:

The refugees tell horror stories - including confirmation, already reported by Asia Times Online, of the Americans using cluster bombs and spraying white phosphorus, a banned chemical weapon.

Why don't YOU read the article? Anyone that can't see the clear bias in this report is a complete and total idiot. Well, nm. I think thats a point already been proven. Repeatedly.

When Bush tells lies, proven lies, that lead to an unprovoked attack which has taken the lives of now 1,214 American troops, over 100,000 Iraqi civilians, and wounded countless numbers on both sides you neocon madmen tell us we're there and we just have to finish the job now.

When the truth is reported you call it biased because it indicts the maniacs you choose to follow, and by association, YOU as well.

Hypocrites, all of you. Murdering, lying, fanatical hypocrites.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: jtusa4
Because if the girl is Iraqi is MUST be true!

No, to find the truth, you have to watch Fox News.

Next time, read the article.

Cliff notes?

Uh huh, the Cliff Notes nation. "Do you really expect me to read all that?" -- the cry of the American neocon. "Please don't confuse the issues with facts."

All you neocons need to make up your minds are the lies Bush tells you.

 

[rudder]

I don't see why anyone would volunteer to join the U.S. Army. I mean we have a high body count, but I would not drive a car bomb into a crowd of Iraqis. Oh wait, its the extremists driving the car bombs.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: rudder
I don't see why anyone would volunteer to join the U.S. Army. I mean we have a high body count, but I would not drive a car bomb into a crowd of Iraqis. Oh wait, its the extremists driving the car bombs.

Yup. You just push the button. Cowards.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: rudder
I don't see why anyone would volunteer to join the U.S. Army. I mean we have a high body count, but I would not drive a car bomb into a crowd of Iraqis. Oh wait, its the extremists driving the car bombs.

And who is it dropping the bombs?

 

[smashp]

reminds me of a joke.

Bush and Rumsfeld are sitting in a Bar in DC. a man walks in and goes up to them and says " Mr. president, what are you and the Sec of Def doing here?

Bush: "well we are discussing this plan we have to drop a bomb on Iraq that will kill 100,000 muslims and one blond with huge breasts"

the man asks " Why are you going to kill a blond with huge breasts"

bush turns to rummy and says " see, pay up, i told you no one would care about 100,000 dead muslims."

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: smashp
reminds me of a joke.

Bush and Rumsfeld are sitting in a Bar in DC. a man walks in and goes up to them and says " Mr. president, what are you and the Sed of Def doing here?

Bush: "well we are discussing theis plan we have to drop a bomb on Iraq that will kill 100,000 muslims and one blond with huge breasts"

the man asks the asks " Why are you going to kill a blond with huge breasts"

bush turns to rummy and says " see, pay up, i told you no one would care about 100,000 dead muslims."

Ouch...nasty joke. Still, based on the responces I've gotten from certain people, there's some truth in it.

 

[kage69]

Daaaaaaaayum smash! :shocked:

 

[maluckey]

So, despite having zero access to Fallujah, these reports are coming in? Questionable at best.

U.S. Snipers killed 17 Doctors????? How can the Nationality of a Sniper be identified at a distance without scopes or binoculars? The United States forces cannot I.D. snipers shooting at them until we either kill them, or they surrender. We are to beleive that a civilian be shot at takes the time to look for who is shooting at them before running inside? Let me guess, they yelled out (in Arabic of course) that they were U.S. snipers! Also, do Iraqi civilian doctors know one 7.62 mm slug from the next?? I doubt it......

U.S. forces do not intentionally target a protected sites unless that target is being used for purposes other than originally intended, and even then, it must pose a serious threat to U.S. forces. Mosques, Hospitals, and schools are favorite hideouts of the insurgents. It is well documented. I guess that the eneny can kill whomever they wish (to include children at a bus stop), but our troops should lay down and die before entering a hospital or a school?

All that I am saying is that I don't beleive any of the hype from obviously questionalble sources.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: maluckey
So, despite having zero access to Fallujah, these reports are coming in? Questionable at best.

U.S. Snipers killed 17 Doctors????? How can the Nationality of a Sniper be identified at a distance without scopes or binoculars? The United States forces cannot I.D. snipers shooting at them until we either kill them, or they surrender. We are to beleive that a civilian be shot at takes the time to look for who is shooting at them before running inside? Let me guess, they yelled out (in Arabic of course) that they were U.S. snipers! Also, do Iraqi civilian doctors know one 7.62 mm slug from the next?? I doubt it......

U.S. forces do not intentionally target a protected sites unless that target is being used for purposes other than originally intended, and even then, it must pose a serious threat to U.S. forces. Mosques, Hospitals, and schools are favorite hideouts of the insurgents. It is well documented. I guess that the eneny can kill whomever they wish (to include children at a bus stop), but our troops should lay down and die before entering a hospital or a school?

All that I am saying is that I don't beleive any of the hype from obviously questionalble sources.

damn those wounded insurgents, hiding in hospitals.