countering a job offer

[lolbron]

i got a job offer at an IT consulting firm, but i'm not entirely happy with it.

the pay is good, and i'm well suited for the position, but here's the kicker:

there's a 2 month training program, during which i won't be paid. they won't officially put me on the payroll until i get assigned to a project after training. they'll be providing free housing and utilities during the training, but won't cover other expenses such as food and travel.

i'm happy that they are providing the housing during training, but i'm kind of baffled that i won't be paid during training. it'll be hard to me to cover living expenses outside of housing without receiving pay.

is it reasonable to counter their offer and ask for my living expenses to be covered, or to be paid during the training? if so, any tips? this is the first full-time job offer i've received, so i have no experience with negotiating.

thanks guys

 

[ussfletcher]

I would never take an unpaid position for any length of time if I could help it :-/

 

[Heller]

good luck lolbron. ATOT LOVES YOU!

you can do it LOLBRON, YOU CAN!

 

[child of wonder]

If you have a good resume and job history you shouldn't have too hard of a time finding a paying job in the next 2 months anyway. The IT industry is in a boom right now because so many projects have been put on hold the last 2 years.

Tell them you want to be paid during the training, why you feel you're a good fit for the position, and that you can provide value to their company.

If they stick to their guns, you can either accept the job and keep applying elsewhere or turn it down.

 

[Scouzer]

My job requires between 5 months and 12 months of unpaid training, followed by a further 2 to 12 months (depending on position) of virtually minimum wage training before being fully hired.

They do not cover any expenses including housing. You can (and likely will) be fired during this process. Fail any part of the training, good bye. Some positions have 90% failure rates.

Point of the story... suck it up if it's a good job.

 

[SandEagle]

give it a shot and see where it goes. it could turn out to be your dream job. hell, u may even make partner.

 

[tfinch2]

I'm taking my talents to an IT consulting firm.

 

[Matthiasa]

My job requires between 5 months and 12 months of unpaid training, followed by a further 2 to 12 months (depending on position) of virtually minimum wage training before being fully hired.

They do not cover any expenses including housing. You can (and likely will) be fired during this process. Fail any part of the training, good bye. Some positions have 90% failure rates.

Point of the story... suck it up if it's a good job.

It would have to be paying a damn good amount for something like you just listed to be worth it.

 

[Scouzer]

It would have to be paying a damn good amount for something like you just listed to be worth it.

50k to 200k a year

 

[cherrytwist]

It would have to be paying a damn good amount for something like you just listed to be worth it.

With a 90% failure rate, does it really matter?

 

[Matthiasa]

With a 90% failure rate, does it really matter?

Not really, since if you could pass that you could probably end up making as much as that job elsewhere, without the 2 years of basicly no pay.

50k to 200k a year

Someone would go for that for under 6 figures... WOW

 

[Malak]

I have never had a job that had unpaid training. That's just stupid.

 

[Scouzer]

Not really, since if you could pass that you could probably end up making as much as that job elsewhere, without the 2 years of basicly no pay.

Someone would go for that for under 6 figures... WOW

I did it and I'll top out around 70 or 80...

 

[Matthiasa]

Why though you could get so much more elsewhere if that was the case.

 

[Mide]

This job sounds fishy. I applied to some company over in the bay area and when they asked if I had some specific QA experience, I said no. Immediately they went off about putting me in some training program for a few month and then marketing me to clients. Sounded very sketchy...yours sounds very similar.

 

[thepd7]

i got a job offer at an IT consulting firm, but i'm not entirely happy with it.

the pay is good, and i'm well suited for the position, but here's the kicker:

there's a 2 month training program, during which i won't be paid. they won't officially put me on the payroll until i get assigned to a project after training. they'll be providing free housing and utilities during the training, but won't cover other expenses such as food and travel.

i'm happy that they are providing the housing during training, but i'm kind of baffled that i won't be paid during training. it'll be hard to me to cover living expenses outside of housing without receiving pay.

is it reasonable to counter their offer and ask for my living expenses to be covered, or to be paid during the training? if so, any tips? this is the first full-time job offer i've received, so i have no experience with negotiating.

thanks guys

definitely as for a per diem as well. $40/day is pretty reasonable. If they are willing to lose you over $2400 I'm not sure I'd want to work for them.

 

[silverpig]

I've had some practice with job offer negotiations, but never put it into practice but here's my two cents.

1. Do NOT reject the offer and then counter. If you say something like "I can't accept that offer as I would need to be compensated during training..." then you've shot out your backup plan. A better thing to say is "I am interested in the offer, but I have a few questions. First, ..." This way you haven't rejected anything and the original offer is still officially on the table.

2. Understand that they WANT you, otherwise they wouldn't have made you the offer. You have some power here, and if you negotiate, they'll see it as a positive thing. If you are an ass and are demanding and condescending, well, that's not good.

3. Come up with a few options for them, and explain your situation. You feel you are a good fit, you are excited about the position and the work, and you have a lot of excellent experience which will benefit their company. However, you have gone through your finances and it looks like you will have some hardship during the training period, despite the free housing. You really want to be able to relax and concentrate on your work and the training and don't feel you could adequately attend to your duties with the added stress of not having enough money during those two weeks. You are hoping that the company will help you solve this problem you are having.

First, you could ask for them to start your pay earlier. Even a reduced wage would be acceptable (make sure you figure out a number that you'd be happy with first).

Second, you could ask for a signing bonus and/or moving allowance.

Third, you could ask for part of your salary to be paid up front. Let's say they were offering $80k salary. You could ask for $4k up front and have your FIRST YEAR salary be reduced to $78k.

Fourth, even though you don't need it, you could ask for an extra week of vacation per year.

Fifth, also see what you can do about having your benefits start when your full salary starts. Often they delay this by ~3 months.

If you explain your concerns they should want to help you however they can.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

The IT industry is in a boom right now because so many projects have been put on hold the last 2 years.

This is the biggest problem I've noticed right now.
Everything is pain in the ass, waste of time project-contract gigs. The only promise is unemployment, sooner or later.
I don't want a job, I want a career. But I guess that's too much to ask for these days.

 

[lolbron]

i ended up declining the offer. they wouldn't budge on their terms, and claimed that they had other candidates who were willing to go without pay.

to hell with that! the job search continues..

 

[Lifted]

I happened across the job listings at Global Foundries in Saratoga, NY. They have some positions listed for people with sys admin experience to setup their factory equipment. After hiring they send you Dresden for 6 months of training. Point is there other other jobs out there, you just need to know where to find them. No need to settle for some 2 months of training with no pay nonsense.

 

[SLCentral]

IT consulting sucks.

 

[Eli]

i ended up declining the offer. they wouldn't budge on their terms, and claimed that they had other candidates who were willing to go without pay.

to hell with that! the job search continues..

:thumbsup:

I hate companies that think they're doing you a favor by hiring you. No, assholes, as an employee I'm doing you a favor. If I'm not a happy employee, why would you want me working for you?

Any upper management that only sees the numbers as they appear on paper is a colossal idiot. Neglecting to give your employees even minimal wage increases can be far more damaging than the few thousand dollars a year you might save, through lost productivity, etc. As someone else said, if they're willing to lose you over such an overall trivial amount, fuck 'em.

 

[ultimatebob]

i ended up declining the offer. they wouldn't budge on their terms, and claimed that they had other candidates who were willing to go without pay.

to hell with that! the job search continues..

Who were these guys, and what in the hell were they "training" you to do? Unless it was something really specialized and obscure, I'd be concerned that it's just a scam to get 2 free months of work out of you.

 

[bfdd]

50k to 200k a year

50k a year? Yeah not worth it at all. 200k on the other hand, maybe.

 

[ultimatebob]

My job requires between 5 months and 12 months of unpaid training, followed by a further 2 to 12 months (depending on position) of virtually minimum wage training before being fully hired.

They do not cover any expenses including housing. You can (and likely will) be fired during this process. Fail any part of the training, good bye. Some positions have 90% failure rates.

Point of the story... suck it up if it's a good job.

Yeah... I've heard that gay porn is a tough racket to get into.