- Mar 31, 2011
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Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
- Thread starter Karstein
- Start date
DirkGently1
Senior member
- Mar 31, 2011
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Some of this sounds a bit odd. "Focuses on 5v5 competition". What do you suppose that means? Smaller maps? "Ammo is free". Wasn't it always?
Is this just CS:S 1.5 rather than a full blown 2.0? I Can't see the CS:S faithful being swayed much by this unless it is exceptionally well done.
Is this just CS:S 1.5 rather than a full blown 2.0? I Can't see the CS:S faithful being swayed much by this unless it is exceptionally well done.
You used to have to pay for ammo. I started Source a little bit later than early adopters, but for what I played it wasn't as in depth as 1.6. It was either don't purchase any, or max out.
In 1.6 you had to make tradeoffs between saving money and being able to spam. Even simple things like that can add a lot depth to the game. We just won the pistol round, I got X kills and can afford X weapon but no ammo for it. Should I take the extra power at the likely possibility of running out of ammo? Also keeping in mind that you generally use the weapon more frugally, reducing its overall effectiveness vs just sticking with an mp5 and being able to spam.
In 1.6 you had to make tradeoffs between saving money and being able to spam. Even simple things like that can add a lot depth to the game. We just won the pistol round, I got X kills and can afford X weapon but no ammo for it. Should I take the extra power at the likely possibility of running out of ammo? Also keeping in mind that you generally use the weapon more frugally, reducing its overall effectiveness vs just sticking with an mp5 and being able to spam.
M0oG0oGaiPan
Diamond Member
IIRC, it was mostly people bitching that the Source engine didn't perform the same way (duh, it's a different engine). They didn't want to adjust to slightly different aiming, movement, hit boxes, etc.
Inspector Jihad
Lifer
- Apr 17, 2005
- 13,465
- 3
- 81
ImpulsE69
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2010
- 14,946
- 1,077
- 126
Yes, I played 1.6, Source and Tactical Ops, which were essentially all the same game. Due to playing TO first, I could never get into CS as much as TO because of the slight differences. Personal preference, but I might have to check this out when it comes out. I played the hell out of these games.
There are a few good reasons to prefer 1.6 to Source. 1.6 is stronger in places like Romania where you don't need a beefy computer to run it. I believe that is why it still posts 50k+ users a day.
The game play mechanics are quite a bit different in 1.6 as well. The skill cap is a decent amount higher. Plus people are resistant to change. An excellent example is when Source got converted to the Orange Box engine. The changes made me quit playing as a competitive game.
Things that a casual gamer might not pick up, can mean massive massive changes on the competitive side. The biggest one I can think of is the online netcode. On the original engine, going around a corner allowed you to see the person around 110ms before the person sitting there saw you, even with a ping of 0. This was called peakers advantage. The benefit vs now netcode is that despite always playing in the past, everything was stable. I also feel like the peakers advantage helped gameplay in the sense that you could be a lot more confident with going around corners. It also made people that didn't understand it rage hard. ""OMFG wtf he was still in the air when he shot me. He shot me before coming around the corner! WTF I was already well behind the wall but I got shot like I was in the past. Ect.""
Even if you don't agree with it as a mechanic, which I can completely understand, the new way just blows. The Orange Box engine tries to keep the players in the correct position a little bit too much. At first it might seem like the ideal way to do things, and on a LAN it really is. The problem is now everything has to be extrapolated for online play. When strafing back and forth, the netcode has no idea if the player is going to switch directions or keep going. EVERY time you switch directions, the extrapolation has fix twice as much guessing. Example why this is bad:
You and an enemy player are perfectly in sync, strafing back and forth looking at each other.
In the old engine, he would be at the same point and at the velocity you were 110ms ago. If you change direction, he is 110ms behind. If you stop moving he comes to a stop the exact same way you did, just 110ms behind.
Now, since the new engine extrapolates position, shit gets funky. Lets start the example already moving, you are face to face. Exactly the same spot and velocity as yourself. Now you both let go of strafe at the same time. You start coming to a stop, but he keeps going on your screen. Now the engine has to not only stop him on your screen, but has to have him reverse direction on your screen so he can be in the correct place. Neither player hit the "A" key on the keyboard, but both view the other has having moved both left and right.
Now lets add another step, before he finishes stopping, you start moving in the opposite direction you were originally going. Two weird things now have to happen, first he may not ever take that short stopping break. Second and VERY importantly, in order to catch back up to you, his velocity has to exceed yours.
Lets look back at what happened here. You moved right at 250units/second. Stopped for 0.1 seconds, and started moving left eventually hitting 250units/second.
What anomalies happened to the player on our screen? First, he moved too far right, then he never stopped for that 0.1 seconds, then he accelerated much faster than normal to the left.
Lets apply this once again even further to an extreme. I'm watching a corner with my AK. You approach the corner, but decide to stop right before peaking because of whatever reason. On my screen you get extrapolated out into the open and get 1 clicked. I never should have seen you, but I did.
They did tone the extrapolation down a bit. When it first got ported, it was stupid as hell.
The game play mechanics are quite a bit different in 1.6 as well. The skill cap is a decent amount higher. Plus people are resistant to change. An excellent example is when Source got converted to the Orange Box engine. The changes made me quit playing as a competitive game.
Things that a casual gamer might not pick up, can mean massive massive changes on the competitive side. The biggest one I can think of is the online netcode. On the original engine, going around a corner allowed you to see the person around 110ms before the person sitting there saw you, even with a ping of 0. This was called peakers advantage. The benefit vs now netcode is that despite always playing in the past, everything was stable. I also feel like the peakers advantage helped gameplay in the sense that you could be a lot more confident with going around corners. It also made people that didn't understand it rage hard. ""OMFG wtf he was still in the air when he shot me. He shot me before coming around the corner! WTF I was already well behind the wall but I got shot like I was in the past. Ect.""
Even if you don't agree with it as a mechanic, which I can completely understand, the new way just blows. The Orange Box engine tries to keep the players in the correct position a little bit too much. At first it might seem like the ideal way to do things, and on a LAN it really is. The problem is now everything has to be extrapolated for online play. When strafing back and forth, the netcode has no idea if the player is going to switch directions or keep going. EVERY time you switch directions, the extrapolation has fix twice as much guessing. Example why this is bad:
You and an enemy player are perfectly in sync, strafing back and forth looking at each other.
In the old engine, he would be at the same point and at the velocity you were 110ms ago. If you change direction, he is 110ms behind. If you stop moving he comes to a stop the exact same way you did, just 110ms behind.
Now, since the new engine extrapolates position, shit gets funky. Lets start the example already moving, you are face to face. Exactly the same spot and velocity as yourself. Now you both let go of strafe at the same time. You start coming to a stop, but he keeps going on your screen. Now the engine has to not only stop him on your screen, but has to have him reverse direction on your screen so he can be in the correct place. Neither player hit the "A" key on the keyboard, but both view the other has having moved both left and right.
Now lets add another step, before he finishes stopping, you start moving in the opposite direction you were originally going. Two weird things now have to happen, first he may not ever take that short stopping break. Second and VERY importantly, in order to catch back up to you, his velocity has to exceed yours.
Lets look back at what happened here. You moved right at 250units/second. Stopped for 0.1 seconds, and started moving left eventually hitting 250units/second.
What anomalies happened to the player on our screen? First, he moved too far right, then he never stopped for that 0.1 seconds, then he accelerated much faster than normal to the left.
Lets apply this once again even further to an extreme. I'm watching a corner with my AK. You approach the corner, but decide to stop right before peaking because of whatever reason. On my screen you get extrapolated out into the open and get 1 clicked. I never should have seen you, but I did.
They did tone the extrapolation down a bit. When it first got ported, it was stupid as hell.
M0oG0oGaiPan
Diamond Member
maps in source were too cluttered with props. spray pattern was random. hitboxes were laggy. I loved source.
1.6 was great but I think 1.5 or 1.3 was better. There was quick scoping and guns had stopping power. There wasn't as much slow down after you landed from a jump either.
1.6 was great but I think 1.5 or 1.3 was better. There was quick scoping and guns had stopping power. There wasn't as much slow down after you landed from a jump either.
TakeNoPrisoners
Platinum Member
- Jun 3, 2011
- 2,600
- 1
- 81
i still prefer 1.6 to source, source felt to arcadish, and wasn't competitive at all.
so is this valves answer to cs pro mod?
i hope this works as this would bring me back to cs, altho i still do play 1.6 and cz
money management was HUGE for competitive play. if you won pistol round your team would go mp5 second round and ak/colt 3rd round if you won again.
if you lost pistol round did you suck it up another 1-2 rounds to save up or did you go for deagles to try and gain that advantage back.
i miss money management since all strats were based off that
so is this valves answer to cs pro mod?
i hope this works as this would bring me back to cs, altho i still do play 1.6 and cz
money management was HUGE for competitive play. if you won pistol round your team would go mp5 second round and ak/colt 3rd round if you won again.
if you lost pistol round did you suck it up another 1-2 rounds to save up or did you go for deagles to try and gain that advantage back.
i miss money management since all strats were based off that
i still prefer 1.6 to source, source felt to arcadish, and wasn't competitive at all.
so is this valves answer to cs pro mod?
i hope this works as this would bring me back to cs, altho i still do play 1.6 and cz
money management was HUGE for competitive play. if you won pistol round your team would go mp5 second round and ak/colt 3rd round if you won again.
if you lost pistol round did you suck it up another 1-2 rounds to save up or did you go for deagles to try and gain that advantage back.
i miss money management since all strats were based off that
You make it sound like money management in CS was anything deep that affected the CS gameplay. It really wasn't.
ViviTheMage
Lifer
1.5 rocked, 1.6 was ok, source was the downfall, this better pick it up ... or I just don't care anymore!
<--- played CS since beta
<--- played CS since beta
i know lol, just wished they put it back into css, instead of giving everyone 16k at the start of every round <sigh>
ViviTheMage
Lifer
zokudu
Diamond Member
- Nov 11, 2009
- 4,364
- 1
- 81
Only Pub servers do that. Any decent competitive play has money management. If you don't like 16k servers complain to the owners of the server or find a new one. Don't blame the game.
Dankk
Diamond Member
- Jul 7, 2008
- 5,558
- 25
- 91
I am not too sure if this is official, but a trailer has popped up on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-h3cIPabQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-h3cIPabQs
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