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Could Trump be the LAST president?

Viper1j

Platinum Member
Jul 31, 2018
2,598
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Some would say 200+ years is a good run for any form of government..

Had to end sometime..

Trump has decided on a confrontation at the SCOTUS. Whether he understands that or anything about it is in question, but he's asking for something that precedent suggests he does not want as happened with Nixon.

The question is if Trump would recognize the SCOTUS decision as binding or if he'll dump them into the bin as he is doing with Congress.

At that point, even Senate Republicans, at least enough to matter, have to vote to remove him from office. They love to screw with the Left and Dems but attacking the SCOTUS to the point that it might as well not exist? That's a whole other thing entirely. Trump may not comply but the SCOTUS will screw those who back him to no end.
Trump ignores the Supremes, dissolves Congress, and does a Maduro.. What then? How is the US any different from Cuba or Russia? Sad thing is there are so-called Americans that would cheer this on.

 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
11,748
2,931
136
I think you got a couple of them on this board too.
I guess at the very end of this narrative you have to ask what the generals will do?
 

Viper1j

Platinum Member
Jul 31, 2018
2,598
1,317
96
You know I felt a measure of comfort when Marine Generals were in the room. Then I saw how Flynn was corrupted, and Mattis left before the taint could touch him. I thought if things got too crazy, one of them would put one behind the ear and end the madness.

We could very well see camps and ovens in this country. Donny will fire any General that opposes him.

These might be useful links at some point..

Claiming asylum in Canada – what happens?

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2017/03/claiming_asylum_incanadawhathappens.html

Mexico's Refugee Law
https://cis.org/Luna/Mexicos-Refugee-Law
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
25,108
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The idea that anyone in military leadership would follow that monkey seems a bit far fetched. Then again, the idea that anyone would vote for that monkey seemed pretty far fetched at one point...
 
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Viper1j

Platinum Member
Jul 31, 2018
2,598
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That woman reminds me of the people, lining up with smiles on their faces to drink the kool-aid at Jonestown.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/09/politics/donald-trump-constitution-jerry-nadler-democrats/index.html

Is American democracy on the brink?

The constitutional showdown between President Donald Trump and House Democrats is taking a grave new twist that threatens to embroil the nation in a deep political and legal nightmare that could last for years.

With almost every day that passes, Trump is providing a glimpse of how American government might look under a President who disdains the principles and pillars on which it is built. His sweeping assertion of executive privilege over the entire Mueller report on Wednesday intensified the most serious standoff between Congress and the White House in decades and opened a hugely significant new battle over the nature of US democracy.

The move followed broad and repeated efforts by the administration to thwart congressional oversight, for example, by ignoring subpoenas for documents and testimony by current and former officials. On Wednesday it also emerged that the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee is deadlocked with the President's eldest son, Don Jr., who has been subpoenaed to return to the panel to testify.

But while Washington is consumed by the confrontation, polls and anecdotal evidence suggest indifference among many Americans about the momentous goings-on in Washington, which so far are not resonating much outside the capital. A strong economy, extreme political polarization and the daily struggles of millions of people to pay for essentials like health care and a college education are understandably seen as more important.

This is one reason why Democrats, many of whom believe there is more than enough material to impeach Trump, are wary of taking that ultimate step; most voters do not seem to want an impeachment saga.

And any impression in the heartland that the latest drama is just another tortured episode in an era of political estrangement would have been reinforced by the theatrics in the House Judiciary Committee on Wednesday.

A hearing in which Democrats held Attorney General William Barr in contempt pulsated with enough grandstanding and hypocrisy on both sides to turn anyone against politics -- and in atmosphere, rather than substance, looked like business as usual in the divided capital.

Significant deterioration

But Wednesday's developments were different. Two warring branches of government will now most likely require the third -- the judiciary -- to adjudicate their conflict.

"We are now in a constitutional crisis," House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler, D-New York, who had previously avoided the term, told reporters. Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas was just as alarmist, but he accused an overreaching majority of provoking the imbroglio.

"You are on the wrong side of history," he told Democrats -- claiming that the FBI investigation into the Trump campaign and alleged links with Russia in 2016 represented a coup against the presidency. If anything, the stakes are now even more important than whether Trump obstructed justice during the Mueller investigation, or the contempt charge against Barr, which will have little practical effect on the attorney general's ability to function.

Those are issues that will expire with this administration in two or six years.
But Trump's refusal to comply with long traditions governing the relationship between Congress and the presidency cut to the core of American democracy and could change it for future generations.

The President's presumptive claim of executive privilege over the entire un-redacted Mueller report after Democrats had issued a subpoena demanding its handover goes further than his previous efforts to evade congressional oversight, crossing an important line. If the gambit stands, it suggests a President can simply ignore the tools designed for Congress to check his power and examine his actions and he will face no significant sanction. Once this threshold is crossed there may be no going back for future administrations.
"This is not a normal partisan event, because the President is invoking executive privilege in an extremely broad way," said Corey Brettschneider, professor of political science at Brown University.

"It is hard to think of an example like that, that is as fundamental to the American Constitution, not only that Congress makes the laws and the president exercises them, but part of the legislative function is to exercise oversight.

"Without the subpoena power to compel oversight it is hard to know how they can even do the basics of their jobs," said Brettschneider, author of "The Oath and the Office: A Guide to the Constitution for Future Presidents."

Turning in their graves

Leon Panetta, who was White House chief of staff for Bill Clinton, told CNN that presidents typically pick and choose executive privilege battles with Congress.
But Trump, consistent with his indifference to checks and balances, domineering personality and willingness to shatter governing norms, chose a blanket approach and is resisting congressional oversight across the board.
"Our forefathers must be turning in their graves," Panetta told CNN's Brianna Keilar. "Our forefathers were really clear that they didn't want power to be centralized in any one branch of government, particularly in a king or a president."

Many analysts believe that at the end of the potentially lengthy legal battle on multiple fronts, the courts will eventually side with Congress on its power to compel testimony.

During Watergate, the Supreme Court upheld the concept of executive privilege but found it was not absolute and unqualified and should not be used to cover up presidential wrongdoing.

As a result of the ruling, President Richard Nixon had to hand over incriminating tapes of his discussions with senior aides to a federal court, a move that accelerated his departure from office in disgrace.

In articles of impeachment drawn up in the House before his resignation, Nixon was accused of failing "without lawful cause or excuse to produce papers and things as directed by duly authorized subpoenas issued by the Committee of the Judiciary of the House of Representatives." The charge argued that with such behavior Nixon had assumed for himself powers constitutionally vested in the House. The executive privilege fight and the subpoena barrage are not the only areas where Trump is challenging presidential power.

He is personally suing a congressional committee to stop the handover of his financial records. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin made his own evaluation of the extent of congressional power by refusing to hand over Trump's tax returns.

The administration ordered former White House counsel Don McGahn on Tuesday not to honor a subpoena to hand over documents pertinent to the Russia investigation. Multiple subpoenas and requests for documents from other committees are being ignored.

A new seam of conflict opened up on Wednesday when House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff, a California Democrat, issued yet another subpoena to Barr for all foreign intelligence and counterintelligence materials produced during the Mueller investigation after repeated previous requests fell on deaf ears.

"As both the special counsel and the Department of Justice have recognized, the Congress has a vital constitutional role in evaluating misconduct by the Executive Branch, including the President, and to assess and refine laws that address the 'sweeping and systematic' invasion of our democracy by Russia," Schiff said in a statement.

"We therefore need these materials in order to do our job. The department's stonewalling is simply unacceptable."

There was no immediate response from the Justice Department. But if the administration's past behavior is any guide, Washington should brace for yet another controversy over the extent of congressional power.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
15,169
1,483
126
We're certainly finished. The US will be called Trumplandia by 2020. You should save yourself and get out now.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,317
3,860
126
We're certainly finished. The US will be called Trumplandia by 2020. You should save yourself and get out now.
Trump will be gone. My concern is the lasting damage he may do in ignoring law and the Constitution more than anyone in memory including Nixon. If Trump isn't successfully opposed now then the Executive Branch becomes the "More equal" branch of the three. If Trump is held to account by the SCOTUS or if the latter says "No", there is nothing in Trump's recent behavior that suggests that they are as "equal" as he. Trump fans might feel that to be a great thing, but eventually tyrants fall and someone like oh, AOC is granted the same powers by precedent and wouldn't Republicans just love it when she does as she pleases with no possible effective opposition? THANKS TRUMP!

I don't think the USA will fall, but it may become a petty shadow of itself and a threat to the rest of the world and there are those who would not have it any other way, whether they realize it or not.
 

obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,151
182
106
As an immigrant this reminds me I should pack my go bag, and stock up on cash. Hm, what's the shortest route to canada again..?
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
15,169
1,483
126
Trump will be gone. My concern is the lasting damage he may do in ignoring law and the Constitution more than anyone in memory including Nixon. If Trump isn't successfully opposed now then the Executive Branch becomes the "More equal" branch of the three. If Trump is held to account by the SCOTUS or if the latter says "No", there is nothing in Trump's recent behavior that suggests that they are as "equal" as he. Trump fans might feel that to be a great thing, but eventually tyrants fall and someone like oh, AOC is granted the same powers by precedent and wouldn't Republicans just love it when she does as she pleases with no possible effective opposition? THANKS TRUMP!

I don't think the USA will fall, but it may become a petty shadow of itself and a threat to the rest of the world and there are those who would not have it any other way, whether they realize it or not.
Great hyperbole, your heartfelt concern for the republic is moving, but it's a fantasy. It's all make believe that exists only in the minds of the obsessed.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
5,352
445
126
If the current group of Democrats and their left wing zealots aren't stopped, we will soon be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for fair Presidential elections.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,436
1,872
126
The idea that anyone in military leadership would follow that monkey seems a bit far fetched. Then again, the idea that anyone would vote for that monkey seemed pretty far fetched at one point...
Unless he has been replacing that military leadership with people that are loyal to him over country.

This is pretty much exactly what is going on in Venezuela. Since the top military leaders are supporting the current regime the military is too disorganized and confused on who to follow to do much of anything. So it defaults to doing nothing, with a portion of it following what they see as legitimate orders from their command structure to maintain the peace. Many will assume that stopping the violence is a lawful order, not matter who it comes from. Even if stopping that violence really means protecting the illegal regime that is preventing the new regime from taking power.
 

obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,151
182
106
If the current group of Democrats and their left wing zealots aren't stopped, we will soon be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for fair Presidential elections.
Uhm, dunno if you know this, but light at the end of the tunnel is a good thing. We were in a dark tunnel, now we're getting back into the light.. So yeah I'll take that then.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,029
474
126
Fantasyland

But if this happens would rather enjoy the quick change of opinion from lefties on gun rights.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,436
1,872
126
If the current group of Democrats and their left wing zealots aren't stopped, we will soon be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for fair Presidential elections.
It is worth noting that the Democrats are doing the job that the Constitution sets out for Congress to do. It is literally Congresses job to provide oversight on the President. It is the President that is causing all these problems. If he would simply allow Congress to do the job they are intended to do by the Constitution then there would be no problems. Unless he really is guilty of something that is.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,436
1,872
126
Fantasyland

But if this happens would rather enjoy the quick change of opinion from lefties on gun rights.
What do you think the fantasy is? That there is a coup going on in Venezuela? That Trump has been replacing top level government employees with people loyal to him? Which of these do you think is fantasy?
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,029
474
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Leftists aren't stupid enough to think they could stop the US military with their glock. No matter how many hours of COD they've played..
I always find this line of thought so amusing. What is so special about the US military that it cant be defeated? Especially by a bunch of armed leftists?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,029
474
126
What do you think the fantasy is? That there is a coup going on in Venezuela? That Trump has been replacing top level government employees with people loyal to him? Which of these do you think is fantasy?
That Trump is going to be the last president.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY