Could the NSA be behind the Xbone mandatory camera rule?

[Red Squirrel]

Ok, this sounds crazy, but anyone wonder if the NSA may be partially involved with the camera bit? Interesting timing given they are on this full blown surveillance frenzy with not only electronic surveillance but drone based physical surveillance. These drones can't see inside houses, so why not put cameras in people's houses a la trojan horse style? Consumer: "ooo shiny, new console! Me buy!" NSA: "Yes, they're opening the gates... it's in!"

Seems odd, even a company like MS would actually want to have a mandatory camera to watch people. I could see Google doing that because it's just their nature, but somehow I just don't see MS as being such a huge creeper. They're more hell bent on finding ways to milk people of their money and stop piracy, which the other things do (or attempt), but the camera requirement just seems kinda out of place for them. I'm not saying I think it's the NSA that's involved in it, but I do kinda wonder if it's a possibility. The timing seems just right.

Discuss. :biggrin:

 

[MaxPayne63]

It's an epic troll by Microsoft.

In fascist America, TV watches you.

 

[gevorg]

Living room is not enough, they want to see it all. Hence why they use your shiny new iPhone for this task. Its everywhere you go, right? There is a reason why iPhones have cameras on both sides. Run for the hills!

 

[Printer Bandit]

NSA is already recording from computer webcams and cameras on phones. just because the green light is not on doesn't mean it's not recording.

 

[radtechtips]

Living room is not enough, they want to see it all. Hence why they use your shiny new iPhone for this task. Its everywhere you go, right? There is a reason why iPhones have cameras on both sides. Run for the hills!

But the hills have eyes too...

 

[Doppel]

I assume not, but it wouldn't surprise me if MS is capable of turning it on remotely--even if it would officially, and as a regular matter of practice not do so. IF it is capable of that YES I do believe the NSA could in the future add it to a hit list of items they review when tracking an individual down; if they have an IP address and are scouring an individual for multiple things there's no reason they wouldn't leverage the existing relationship with Microsoft to see if the person has a Kinect in place.

 

[marvdmartian]

Simple solution. Any time camera is not required for actual gaming, turn it around to face the wall, or put something (handkerchief, etc) over it. Unless your camera has x-ray vision, no one's going to see squat.

 

[DaveSimmons]

It will still be listening to you, including your heartbeat. And using speech recognition to listen for keywords.

It knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake!

 

[KaOTiK]

Simple solution. Any time camera is not required for actual gaming, turn it around to face the wall, or put something (handkerchief, etc) over it. Unless your camera has x-ray vision, no one's going to see squat.

I have an easier solution. Don't buy the X1

 

[Red Squirrel]

It will still be listening to you, including your heartbeat. And using speech recognition to listen for keywords.

It knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake!

And if I'm not good, does it mean I don't get the XboxTwo for Christmas?

 

[Anteaus]

I haven't decided which console I plan to buy, but if I did buy the XB1 the kinect is going to live behind the console with a black bag over it. I'm not worried about snooping or anything, but it's presence would annoy me. I see motion controls as a gimic much like 3D in movies. I can see the novelty in both, but in their current form neither actually adds anything of substance and in some cases actually degrade the experience.

 

[ultimatebob]

All of Apple's iPhones and IPads have front and rear facing cameras now... Do all of the tinfoil hat wearers here think that the NSA is using those to spy on us as well?

 

[DaveSimmons]

All of Apple's iPhones and IPads have front and rear facing cameras now... Do all of the tinfoil hat wearers here think that the NSA is using those to spy on us as well?

Is the iPad always listening to you, even when powered "off"? (I have no idea, I don't own one.)

 

[Anteaus]

Is the iPad always listening to you, even when powered "off"? (I have no idea, I don't own one.)

Would you even know? I think that's the fear that most people have. I don't share that fear, but I can understand the angst.

 

[cmdrdredd]

No but Apple was the last major tech company to comply with the PRISM program. It took years to get Apple to give in, Microsoft was the first.

 

[Doppel]

All of Apple's iPhones and IPads have front and rear facing cameras now... Do all of the tinfoil hat wearers here think that the NSA is using those to spy on us as well?

You realize some of the tinfoil hatters were right, right? Gov is now taking records of millions of people without a warrant and has admitted it can listen to contents of phone calls without warrants, and also without warrants has gone after thousands of emails. You have no privacy, the only thing limiting watching one through the camera is the desire and the technical boundary, and there is no technical boundary.

 

[mikeymikec]

I assume not, but it wouldn't surprise me if MS is capable of turning it on remotely--even if it would officially, and as a regular matter of practice not do so.

I think it would be quite a silly idea for them to have such a feature unless it was opt-in (ie. a piece of software or hardware needs to be installed to allow it). Such companies would become the favourite place to work for perverts, or even worse, inevitably the knowledge required to exploit the feature remotely from anywhere would enter the public domain and it becomes a public relations disaster.

Also, what business case can anyone come up with for such a feature? The interests of a government wanting to spy the living daylights out of the people are completely different from a business's interests. For a business, up to a point such information is useful for marketplace analysis / targeted advertising service data, but beyond that point (and I have no idea where that point is), it must become even less interesting and more cumbersome than sitting with a packet capture session on someone's Internet connection. A business would decide what would interest it and why, and then do a cost-benefit analysis.

I can potentially see a case for a business doing a bit of short-term experimentation and open-ended analysis from time to time, during which they might try to capture as much data as possible, but in the long term there would be an awful lot of uninteresting crap in the collected data. I suspect Google engaged in this behaviour with the Street View camera system and wireless network data capture (probably amongst other things that haven't come to light), but the cost that must have been involved for Google to send around that many vehicles doing data capture must have been astronomical. From that perspective I don't think I underestimate a commercial entity's interest in end user data, but as I said, the cost-benefit ratio must shift sharply on the cost end at some point.

 

[007ELmO]

Doppel must have been a little naieve when Bush crossed the line, too. Being born in USA and brown, I guess I have no reaction to what's being "revealed" now.

 

[TXHokie]

Is the iPad always listening to you, even when powered "off"? (I have no idea, I don't own one.)

When you're asleep or not looking, it transforms into a decepticon robot. Don't you know?

 

[PricklyPete]

I can already think of 3 devices that I stair at all day that have built in cameras staring back at me (none made by MS)...why would I suddenly be worried about this one?

 

[exdeath]

No. As much as I want to see XBone go down in flames so nobody will EVER talk about DRM and used games again, this is just a conspiracy theory at best. Kinect included with console is so it gets used. Optional accessories never have a high adoption rate or software support.

 

[Mushkins]

The paranoia is thick in this thread :/

The NSA is not live-streaming millions of Kinect streams simultaneously 24/7. Just because they *CAN* tap your phone doesn't mean they *ARE* tapping your phone all day every day. From a technological perspective Kinect livestreams to some NSA database would rival Netflix traffic. Our infrastructure just can't handle that, sorry. From a surveillance perspective there's about a million *better ways* to gather intel on someone than hoping they have a Kinect, tapping the video stream, and hoping they do something incriminating within the range of their TV. Might as well put a tin can with a string up to their window and stand there like a tool hoping Giuseppe is standing in the living room talking about who the Don's gonna whack tonight. Tapping phones at least makes sense, the whole "your kinect is spying on you 24/7" thing is just fucking ridiculous.

If you can't take your tinfoil hat off, but still can't resist the urge to buy an XB1, just put the damn kinect in a box when you're not using it. Nobody's *forcing* you to leave it plugged in, and it can't record anything if it has no power.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I can already think of 3 devices that I stair at all day that have built in cameras staring back at me (none made by MS)...why would I suddenly be worried about this one?

Like what?

I have no cameras in my house except for whats on my cell phone (and it's just one side). It would be far more difficult to "spy" on me from a cell phone than an Xbox One.

While unlikely, from what is being said about the Kinect and it's abilities, why wouldn't the government use it's power (of spying on americans w/o their consent) to utilize these cameras if they deemed it necessary? We can't pretend like MS can't give them that ability and would actually fight against it. It's downright scary if you really stop to think about it. A camera/mic that is always connected to the internet that you have no actual control over.

I know it all sounds tin foil hatty at this point, but given what has recently come out (which all the naysayers said wasn't happening) is in fact happening, it makes you stop and think, do you really want to give them even more? Why even give the option, when you know it's the matter of a little code watching your IP? We all know webcams on pcs can be hacked easy enough but you can disconnect those (well anyone smart does). It's a fine line because like above, sure it comes down to paranoia, but I think we've been given good reason to take a moment to consider the possibilities vs what might actually be happening right now. Talk 5-6 years in the future... We aren't in the past anymore, the government has shown it can and will use any means it can get it's hands on to do what it wants. It is no longer conspiracy, it is happening.

Regardless of what is said, SOMEONE will go through that data. Normal human beings. Why? Curiosity, boredom, perviness. You name it.

 

[dagamer34]

Like what?

I have no cameras in my house except for whats on my cell phone (and it's just one side). It would be far more difficult to "spy" on me from a cell phone than an Xbox One.

While unlikely, from what is being said about the Kinect and it's abilities, why wouldn't the government use it's power (of spying on americans w/o their consent) to utilize these cameras if they deemed it necessary? We can't pretend like MS can't give them that ability and would actually fight against it. It's downright scary if you really stop to think about it. A camera/mic that is always connected to the internet that you have no actual control over.

I know it all sounds tin foil hatty at this point, but given what has recently come out (which all the naysayers said wasn't happening) is in fact happening, it makes you stop and think, do you really want to give them even more? Why even give the option, when you know it's the matter of a little code watching your IP? We all know webcams on pcs can be hacked easy enough but you can disconnect those (well anyone smart does). It's a fine line because like above, sure it comes down to paranoia, but I think we've been given good reason to take a moment to consider the possibilities vs what might actually be happening right now. Talk 5-6 years in the future... We aren't in the past anymore, the government has shown it can and will use any means it can get it's hands on to do what it wants. It is no longer conspiracy, it is happening.

Regardless of what is said, SOMEONE will go through that data. Normal human beings. Why? Curiosity, boredom, perviness. You name it.

Anyone with a router running TomatoUSB or DD-WRT could spot such shenanigans in seconds. Plus, with data caps, it WOULD be discovered. Why am i even responding to this....

 

[PricklyPete]

Like what?

Laptop, smartphone, and tablet which are commonly used by many.