Could I have Been Wrong About Drug Legalization?

[bshole]

This is certainly startling for me. Violent crime in Colorado is spiking dramatically. Can somebody explain this?

Crime rates dropped or remained static in many of the nation’s 30 largest cities last year, but in Colorado the crime rate per 100,000 people spiked by 3.4 percent, fueled by a rise in auto thefts, rape, murder and robbery.

Colorado’s crime-rate increase in 2016 was more than 11 times the 0.3 percent average increase reported in the 30 largest cities in the nation, according to the Brennan Center for Justice.

Last year’s number of homicides — 189 — marked an 9.9 percent increase over the 172 in 2015, according to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation report “2016 Crime in Colorado.” Nearly one in three homicides were committed in Denver.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/11/colorado-sees-big-increase-crime-10-percent-higher-murder-rate/

 

[fskimospy]

This is certainly startling for me. Violent crime in Colorado is spiking dramatically. Can somebody explain this?

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/11/colorado-sees-big-increase-crime-10-percent-higher-murder-rate/

Why would you think that was due to legalizing pot?

 

[1sikbITCH]

Now that everyone is growing legal weed in Colorado, there are plenty of home invasions by gangsters looking to steal the weed. There are also plenty of gangsters growing wholesale to traffic across the country.

Once it's legal the country over there will be less reason for criminals to target pot and potheads.

But go ahead and blame the victims.

 

[pmv]

This is certainly startling for me. Violent crime in Colorado is spiking dramatically. Can somebody explain this?




http://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/11/colorado-sees-big-increase-crime-10-percent-higher-murder-rate/

I really don't have any strong opinion either way about recreational drugs or their legal status. But I suppose it is quite possible that if one place legalises them in a situation where other places don't, they'll attract lots of dodgy people from other areas (where drugs and crime have become strongly interconnected).

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

This is certainly startling for me. Violent crime in Colorado is spiking dramatically. Can somebody explain this?




http://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/11/colorado-sees-big-increase-crime-10-percent-higher-murder-rate/

Generally, outsiders arriving in a location do not share a sense of community or ownership over that location. With the legalization of MJ, they probably created a demand vacuum which was quickly filled by immigrants (city immigrants, not national ones), which are rather more likely to commit crimes in the area than locals. In addition, due to our existing drug culture and the War on Drugs, those seeking to move here are probably proportionally more likely to be in the 'crime circuit' as it were.

Both of these problems (movement-related social detachment and higher propensity for crime culture) go away with national legalization.

 

[1sikbITCH]

The above posters are exactly right. From the article: "Some Colorado lawmakers, police and legal experts partly blame the marijuana industry, claiming that it has lured transients and criminals to the state. Others point to a dramatic increase in the number of cars stolen to commit other crimes or to ship to Mexico."

If it's legal everywhere the deplorables will have no reason to relocate.

 

[vi edit]

Opiods are illegal and still a *HUGE* driver of crime. I live in Lexington, KY and our property crimes are going through the roof with people trying to steal anything and everything they can to flip for drug money.

 

[vi edit]

Generally, outsiders arriving in a location do not share a sense of community or ownership over that location. With the legalization of MJ, they probably created a demand vacuum which was quickly filled by immigrants (city immigrants, not national ones), which are rather more likely to commit crimes in the area than locals. In addition, due to our existing drug culture and the War on Drugs, those seeking to move here are probably proportionally more likely to be in the 'crime circuit' as it were.

Both of these problems (movement-related social detachment and higher propensity for crime culture) go away with national legalization.

This is a great point as well. There is definitely a transition period that will take a while to normalize. Will be interesting to see what the stats are for Nevada. It just legalized as well.

 

[ElFenix]

Last year’s number of homicides — 189 — marked an 9.9 percent increase over the 172 in 2015, according to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation report “2016 Crime in Colorado.” Nearly one in three homicides were committed in Denver.

an increase of 17 does not a crime wave make.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

an increase of 17 does not a crime wave make.

Yeah, that can be a problem with statistics. Increase of 100% in motorcycle deaths for a city sounds bad, until you find out it went from 2 to 4 or something.

 

[zinfamous]

Now that everyone is growing legal weed in Colorado, there are plenty of home invasions by gangsters looking to steal the weed. There are also plenty of gangsters growing wholesale to traffic across the country.

Once it's legal the country over there will be less reason for criminals to target pot and potheads.

But go ahead and blame the victims.

so much this. I've long advocated for full legalization, everywhere. Not one isolated region at a time, because it just creates pockets of vice and will discourage, proper, total legalization.

 

[Jhhnn]

Correlation is not causation.The rise in crime probably correlates with Trumpism, as well...

 

[Perknose]

I agree with the cascade of posters above, and would like to add that, as long as it is illegal on the Federal level, everyone involved in the business is barred from using our banking system. Huge amounts of untraceable cash, gathered in 10s and 20s, is a bigly lure.

 

[bshole]

I really don't have any strong opinion either way about recreational drugs or their legal status. But I suppose it is quite possible that if one place legalises them in a situation where other places don't, they'll attract lots of dodgy people from other areas (where drugs and crime have become strongly interconnected).

That actually makes lots of sense. So much so that I am inclined to agree with you. This truly is a strong argument for national legalization.

 

[Jhhnn]

I agree with the cascade of posters above, and would like to add that, as long as it is illegal on the Federal level, everyone involved in the business is barred from using our banking system. Huge amounts of untraceable cash, gathered in 10s and 20s, is a bigly lure.

That's not really true.

http://hightimes.com/news/despite-federal-law-colorado-pot-shops-are-accepting-credit-cards/

 

[Ns1]

I agree with the cascade of posters above, and would like to add that, as long as it is illegal on the Federal level, everyone involved in the business is barred from using our banking system. Huge amounts of untraceable cash, gathered in 10s and 20s, is a bigly lure.

so much this.

 

[woolfe9998]

That actually makes lots of sense. So much so that I am inclined to agree with you. This truly is a strong argument for national legalization.

Or there's any number of other variables which can account for increases in crime in a given state or area. Correlation /= causation. I actually tend to doubt his theory because I don't understand how a legal pot trade attracts unsavory criminals to the state. It might bring some people from neighboring states just to legally buy weed, but I can't see any connection between a legal marijuana trade and violent crime. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Ns1]

but I can't see any connection between a legal marijuana trade and violent crime. It doesn't make any sense.

Due to questionable federal laws, supply is still an issue and banking is also an issue. This generally means vendors and stores have large amounts of cash on hand.

 

[Jhhnn]

Or there's any number of other variables which can account for increases in crime in a given state or area. Correlation /= causation. I actually tend to doubt his theory because I don't understand how a legal pot trade attracts unsavory criminals to the state. It might bring some people from neighboring states just to legally buy weed, but I can't see any connection between a legal marijuana trade and violent crime. It doesn't make any sense.

It's not like potheads are the violent type. Quite the contrary. "Have a toke, Man, & chill out." is basically the motto.

One of the things that has happened with legalization is that potheads were formerly criminals outside the law. Criminals have no recourse against other criminals. They wouldn't call the cops because of that. Now they will, so there's an increase in reporting crime. The population of metro Denver is also growing very rapidly, so there are more people.

The only really noticeable increase in criminality has been carpetbagging marijuana growers shipping product back home where prices are much higher. It's not like they're really violent, either, although they're often armed because they're outside the law. Some of them are apparently dumber than shit, too, given the stories in the newspapers.

 

[JackTheBear]

Alcohol is "legalized" nationwide and it still a contributing factor for an awful lot of violent crime. If I had to guess, I would guess almost all violent crime is drug and alcohol related in one way or another. I don't think legalizing is really going to help anything.

 

[crashtech]

It's natural that those who oppose legalization will make as big a deal as possible about every little statistical blip. This thread is replete with examples of why this latest attempt at FUD can be discounted.

 

[crashtech]

Alcohol is "legalized" nationwide and it still a contributing factor for an awful lot of violent crime. If I had to guess, I would guess almost all violent crime is drug and alcohol related in one way or another. I don't think legalizing is really going to help anything.

Anyone with a modicum of life experience knows that alcohol consumption often leads directly to violent behavior, where marijuana generally produces the opposite.

 

[pmv]

an increase of 17 does not a crime wave make.

Would be clearer if there was a graph or even a relevant statistic, to give an idea of what the normal year-to-year variation is. You get that a lot, a report saying X went up Y percent last year, without mentioning that X has gone up and down by a similar percentage to Y every year for the last century because it's just something that varies randomly over that time scale.

Alcohol is "legalized" nationwide and it still a contributing factor for an awful lot of violent crime. If I had to guess, I would guess almost all violent crime is drug and alcohol related in one way or another. I don't think legalizing is really going to help anything.

Not sure about this. I'm not a huge fan of alcohol either. Can take it or leave it and I honestly wouldn't care if it disappeared from the world (not banned, because doing that would have all sorts of other social consequences and implications, but just magically ceased to be a 'thing'). But seems to me people who get violent when drunk are just violent people. Many people are as amiable drunk as they are sober.

 

[Moonbeam]

Alcohol is "legalized" nationwide and it still a contributing factor for an awful lot of violent crime. If I had to guess, I would guess almost all violent crime is drug and alcohol related in one way or another. I don't think legalizing is really going to help anything.

Fortunately we don't have to think. All we need to do is take data and measure. Sadly, of course for some, data and wishes don't always align and some of those will chose to ignore the data because their inner certainty in the validity of their opinions is vital to some delusion they have in the form of ego image. Hopefully, you won't fall into that category.

 

[JackTheBear]

Anyone with a modicum of life experience knows that alcohol consumption often leads directly to violent behavior, where marijuana generally produces the opposite.

Impaired judgment leads to poor decisions, regardless of the adulterant. The government calls it a gateway drug. Ultimately their conclusion is that more research is needed, but I think it's reasonable to assume the problems don't develop as quickly with marijuana, but marijuana abuse will have repercussions, many of which will lead to problems with law enforcement.