Could Hillary take the Democratic nominantion from Obama

[boomerang]

What did Glenn Beck mean when he said it?

(ed: I did not realize how that phrase is a fucking dog whistle for the right. you want to see 40 odd pages of seriously paranoid shit just google it)

Mine was not a loaded question. If you don't want to answer it, that's fine. If you want to get your panties all in wad in that process that's fine too.

But if I'm to ignore some of what he says and pay attention to other things he says, I'm going to need some guidance. I need to know which is which.

 

[jonks]

Mine was not a loaded question. If you don't want to answer it, that's fine. If you want to get your panties all in wad in that process that's fine too.

But if I'm to ignore some of what he says and pay attention to other things he says, I'm going to need some guidance. I need to know which is which.

I edited to answer your question. It got longer than I planned heh.

 

[Fern]

what real world economic theories are the heads of the fed, bank ceos and treasury secretaries (people who have spent decades studying the economy and almost nothing but) unaware of?

It would appear any of those theories that are not about banks and for banks. They seem to focused on using policy that deals pretty much exclusively and soley on pulling those levers the banking system offers.

Banks were absolutley vilified by the Dems and the Obama admin at the begining of his term. IMO, they mostly seemed to withdraw to the sidelines after getting their handout/bailout. After getting reamed for taking too much risk, they as heck don't seem willing to jump into this ecomony and take any more.

and who should obama be turning to for economic suggestions? and if as you suggest there's only a handful of people who 'really' understand the economy, do you not think Obama would want to speak to one of them, if only out of self interest? after all, fixing the economy is good for you if you're the president. it's when you're the challenger that you want shit in the gutter.

I would think people actually in the business of producing GDP would be a great place to start. What would they recommend? How can foreign trade policy and agreements be tweeked to help? What would help encourage them to increase hiring? What new products/processes be developed to help fuel growth? Can the case be made that any regulations are unnecessary and counter-productive? Are there some new regulations that we do need?

Most people believe Obama has not shown any desire to work with business, whether big or small. I think business is about as foriegn to him as it gets. His only brush with any kind of business seems to be a questionable real estate deal with Rezko to increase size of his yard at his home Chicago.

So far as efforts at business etc, I haven't seen much more than fvcking around with interbank lending rates and fund transfers to prop them up. To most people, circulating money around a banking system that has become a closed loop isn't working, nor could it have reasonably been expected to.

IMO, Obama and his admin have demonstrated that they think it's up to businesses to make business and the economy better. In the meantime he'll try to make sure the masses have their bread (infinite unemployment benefits etc) and keep state/local gov from going bankrupt (by basically transfering their debt to fed gov). All well and good, but as we've seen, hardly effective at helping the economy.

Fern

 

[Fern]

More to the Op's question _ lately I find myself wondering if Obama actually wants another term.

He's stated he's fine with no 2nd term.

He's been quoted complaining about how hard the job is etc. (I don't know if that's actually true or not, but it's been said)

A lot of politicians seem to love the power and attention the office brings, I've seen nothing to indicates this is true for him. And the job is a bitch. He's looked tired, gray and uninspired for quite some now. He seems unengaged. Clinton, by contrast seemed to love this stuff. Obama seems happy to leave it to others.

Campaigning was a breeze; he was butt-kissed senseless by the Media. He could do no wrong. But since assuming office, while he's gotten support he has received criticism from the Left media too. He doesn't seem to accept it very well, I think it bothers him.

What's the point of another term for him? what is his vision, what does he want to accomplish? If somebody knows they may want to tell him. He ran on Hope & Change, a new "kind" of Washington DC, and HC reform. He ran on the war(s) and the Patriot Act and unemployment. Well, Hope & Change was dropped and that fell-good Washington stuff was dropped like a chunk of hot lava. He's uppted the war and strengthened the Patriot Act, GITMO won't be closed etc.

Really, honestly, what's he got left? Maybe it's slipping my mind atm, but I can't think of anything he's touted as his burning desire, something he'd wanna stick around for see finished. HC reform is done, 4 more years just to see it tweaked a bit? He's not interested in details (like Clinton), I really don't see that being all that appealing to him. Is his burning desire to hang around 4 more years to clean up more of Bush's mess (as the Dems would put it), or keep the lid on situations boiling over such as the Middle east or Japan? I don't see it. Maybe a carbon tax? I'm not sure he cares that much about it, and it looks dead anyway.

I know he know's he's expected to run. I know that the Dems want him to run; incumbancy is a powerful thing. The Dems would never want to give that up.

He seems uninspired and burned out to me; disengaged and uninterested. Lately I've been doubting whether he actually wants another term. Personally, I wouldn't blame him one bit.

Fern

 

[wuliheron]

He seems uninspired and burned out to me; disengaged and uninterested. Lately I've been doubting whether he actually wants term. Personally, I wouldn't blame him one bit.

Fern

Reminds me of a suggestion Kurt Vonnegut made that we should program a computer to pick someone for the office at random and that one of the qualifications would be that they didn't want the office, but would knuckle down and do the job anyway.

 

[boomerang]

<snip>

Well, we were both typing at the same time.

Yes, as you know, I think that our President is pretty much an utter failure. I think he is ill-equipped for the job of running the nation in a manner to make it better at the end of his tenure. I think anyone that would take the time to investigate his background, the way he was raised, by whom he was raised, the people he's hired and how he has made it virtually impossible to ascertain any information about him regarding transcripts, etc., would have some concerns about him. Reasonable people would. People who are not in love with the idea of righting old wrongs and putting a community organizer with a checkered past and a history of voting "present" into the White House so they can feel good about what they've done.

So what has Obama done to transform our political system? Your question to me. His total and complete lack of action to rein in spending has the very real potential to transform our political system. Is he just a bumbler or is it by design? It's one or the other and neither are good. (I lean towards design.) When the clear course is to reduce spending, he lies about what he's doing and spends astronomical amounts more.

Because I lean towards design my instincts tell me that his plans are to bring this country to it's knees financially and as a world power. Because I have researched his background to the extent Mr. Obama will allow, I feel I have an understanding of his mindset. I chose to research the man versus putting him on a pedestal.

A young boy, born of an interracial relationship, with a father he never knew and a mother that had little interest in him. What little time she had with him was spent dragging him around the world chasing men. She early on foisted him off on grandparents who were proclaimed communists. His grandfather had him hang with another communist, a pedophile who by Obama's own words appears to have molested him. Obama sought out people who thought like him as a young adult. Read it for yourself, it's in his books. He was mainstream for Berkeley, but not for the majority of America. He hung out for 20 years in a church led by a pastor with views that the overwhelming majority recognize to be radical and anti-American. Yet Obama claims to have heard little of that in the course of 20 years? There's more, but I imagine you're steaming about now.

At what point does common sense kick in? At what point does an overwhelming abundance of evidence that defines Barack Obama become relevant? Did he really flip an internal switch and become a completely different person than what his background shows him to be the day he took office? Did he? Of course not. Did he run to transform himself or to transform America?

Bumbler or design?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

My Prediction: This woman has no desire to stay out of politics in the longer term. Hilary is a cold and calculating woman. She didn't take the VP spot because she didn't want to be tied at the hip with Obama (It's the economy STUPID!) and his administration.

The Sectary of State gig gave her the foreign diplomatic experience she was looking for which she can now flaunt in any future bid. Now all she has to do is wait for this Libya adventure to pan out and if it goes badly she can ride in as the Dem's white knight alternative candidate to the rescue.

Edit: There is also the advantage of her understanding the inner workings of this administration and thus knowing the weak links and where to strike so it hurts politically against Obama.

 

[nageov3t]

I know he know's he's expected to run. I know that the Dems want him to run; incumbancy is a powerful thing. The Dems would never want to give that up.

He seems uninspired and burned out to me; disengaged and uninterested. Lately I've been doubting whether he actually wants another term. Personally, I wouldn't blame him one bit.

Fern

he is running. his reelection machine is already up and running in Chicago, and it's why Axelrod et al have left the White House.

short of some catastrophic event, Obama wants a second term and is running for one. haven't you seen the "kill them with smug" attacks he's already firing at Romney and Huntsman to try and torpedo their primary hopes?

 

[Rainsford]

More to the Op's question _ lately I find myself wondering if Obama actually wants another term.

He's stated he's fine with no 2nd term.

He's been quoted complaining about how hard the job is etc. (I don't know if that's actually true or not, but it's been said)

A lot of politicians seem to love the power and attention the office brings, I've seen nothing to indicates this is true for him. And the job is a bitch. He's looked tired, gray and uninspired for quite some now. He seems unengaged. Clinton, by contrast seemed to love this stuff. Obama seems happy to leave it to others.

Campaigning was a breeze; he was butt-kissed senseless by the Media. He could do no wrong. But since assuming office, while he's gotten support he has received criticism from the Left media too. He doesn't seem to accept it very well, I think it bothers him.

What's the point of another term for him? what is his vision, what does he want to accomplish? If somebody knows they may want to tell him. He ran on Hope & Change, a new "kind" of Washington DC, and HC reform. He ran on the war(s) and the Patriot Act and unemployment. Well, Hope & Change was dropped and that fell-good Washington stuff was dropped like a chunk of hot lava. He's uppted the war and strengthened the Patriot Act, GITMO won't be closed etc.

Really, honestly, what's he got left? Maybe it's slipping my mind atm, but I can't think of anything he's touted as his burning desire, something he'd wanna stick around for see finished. HC reform is done, 4 more years just to see it tweaked a bit? He's not interested in details (like Clinton), I really don't see that being all that appealing to him. Is his burning desire to hang around 4 more years to clean up more of Bush's mess (as the Dems would put it), or keep the lid on situations boiling over such as the Middle east or Japan? I don't see it. Maybe a carbon tax? I'm not sure he cares that much about it, and it looks dead anyway.

I know he know's he's expected to run. I know that the Dems want him to run; incumbancy is a powerful thing. The Dems would never want to give that up.

He seems uninspired and burned out to me; disengaged and uninterested. Lately I've been doubting whether he actually wants another term. Personally, I wouldn't blame him one bit.

Fern

I feel like President Obama is moving towards the position occupied by President Bush in 2004. Not a particularly energized or popular President, who might lose a hypothetical election where the choice is him or "someone else". You might even be right that he'd be willing to turn the reins over to someone else in 2012.

But the problem for the President, and the voters, is that the opposition in 2012 won't be "someone else", it will be at least narrow down to a specific Republican or two. Sure, it's possible he could turn things over to a Democrat who runs in his place. But I think that would be a huge hit to Democratic credibility, since it's pretty unprecedented. So essentially the President and us will be faced with the choice of President Obama vs President Specific Republican.

And that's where I think the problem really comes in. I'm not super happy with President Obama's performance, and it's possible that you're right and HE'S not happy with the job either. But from a liberal point of view, the Republicans are going absolutely batshit insane lately, and show every sign of nominating some complete moonbat who appeals to the right while totally alienating anyone even remotely left of center. President Obama, and liberals in general, are going to take one look at the alternative and the decision will be obvious.

Seriously, I think Republicans are gearing up for their own John Kerry moment and getting ready to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by running a complete toolbox against what should be an easy to defeat President.

 

[wuliheron]

Obama has no choice in the matter. Unless he comes down with some life-threatening illness he either runs for re-election or the entire country will disown him. Only losers quiet and Americans hate a loser. The same goes for the democratic party if they choose not to run him again. It would be an admission they are a bunch of losers who can't win on merit alone and are willing to sacrifice one of their best players.

 

[dennilfloss]

I'm curious, why do people think Clinton would have run a more "professional" White House than Obama has done? The WH is staffed by Clintonites almost to a tee. So if it's just the person in the big chair that's different, what calls would she have made differently?

The calls that require balls and a backbone.

 

[Fern]

Obama has no choice in the matter. Unless he comes down with some life-threatening illness he either runs for re-election or the entire country will disown him. Only losers quiet and Americans hate a loser. The same goes for the democratic party if they choose not to run him again. It would be an admission they are a bunch of losers who can't win on merit alone and are willing to sacrifice one of their best players.

Firstly, he wouldn't be quitting. he would've served out his term.

Secondly, I'm reminded of GWH Bush (Bush #1). His heart just wasn't in his re-election campaign, he really didn't seem like he wanted another term and didn't get one. IMO, a big difference here is that Obama is a 'natural' campaigner, unlike many politicians who don't seem to like it much. When he gets back to campaigning it may energize him, I think he enjoys campaigning.

Fern

 

[Rainsford]

Firstly, he wouldn't be quitting. he would've served out his term.

Secondly, I'm reminded of GWH Bush (Bush #1). His heart just wasn't in his re-election campaign, he really didn't seem like he wanted another term and didn't get one. IMO, a big difference here is that Obama in a 'natural' campaigner, unlike many politicians who don't seem to like it much. When he gets back to campaigning it may energize him, I think he enjoys campaigning.

Fern

Except Republicans are missing their Clinton. You're right that GHWB sort of conceded the election, but only because there was a good replacement there in the form on Clinton, who was reasonable popular during the election.

 

[wuliheron]

Firstly, he wouldn't be quitting. he would've served out his term.

Secondly, I'm reminded of GWH Bush (Bush #1). His heart just wasn't in his re-election campaign, he really didn't seem like he wanted another term and didn't get one. IMO, a big difference here is that Obama is a 'natural' campaigner, unlike many politicians who don't seem to like it much. When he gets back to campaigning it may energize him, I think he enjoys campaigning.

Fern

There is nowhere to go but down for Obama. He can't become the Pope or even Mother Teresa and the Illuminati already have Satan lined up. He quits politics now its forever and he's a little young to retire.

 

[Zebo]

Obamas gonna win. Got bankers, Hollywood, pharma, & deadbeats & dependents on his side what you got? Eroding working class? GL

 

[bamacre]

Obamas gonna win. Got bankers, Hollywood, pharma, & deadbeats & dependents on his side what you got? Eroding working class? GL

Pretty much. Obama has what Bush had in 2004, supporters willing to overlook his complete failures, out of fear of the other party.

 

[Zebo]

As long as funny money keeps flowing everyone is happy and votes on personality...and let's admit it Obama is a charming man. It's when it becomes worthless I think people will question.

 

[Rainsford]

Obamas gonna win. Got bankers, Hollywood, pharma, & deadbeats & dependents on his side what you got? Eroding working class? GL

Other than the fact that your characterization is silly (you really think bankers and the drug industry support Obama and Democrats? Really?), it seems obvious to me that there is pretty widespread discontent with President Obama right now. If ever there was a beatable President, it's him, since a lot of moderate voters aren't really tied to him very strongly. So what are the Republicans doing? Doing everything they possibly can to alienate any possible swing voters.

 

[wuliheron]

As long as funny money keeps flowing everyone is happy and votes on personality...and let's admit it Obama is a charming man. It's when it becomes worthless I think people will question.

People don't question, they just react or go on dogma. How the hell do you think Obama got elected in the first place? The economy went in the toilet, the republicans were in power, and the public reacted. After 30 years of slowly sliding down hill and steadily increasing deficits you somehow image that the public is actually thinking? If so, then God help us all.

 

[jonks]

Obama not running for a 2nd term is a fapdream of the right. Sorry folks. Historically, how many sitting presidents didn't run for a 2nd term?

We've had the crappiest 2 years in a long, long time and he's still sitting at about 50&#37;. He's not going anywhere.

 

[jonks]

Because I lean towards design my instincts tell me that his plans are to bring this country to it's knees financially and as a world power.
...snip...
At what point does common sense kick in?

good question.

 

[piasabird]

Shure she can but she is getting kind of old. However, Democrats have proven that they hate women. Press hates Women also. Generally male constituents and other elected and appointed officials do not trust women to hold office.

I am basing this on track records of how women are treated by politicians and the media.