Could a plugged in device taint the power for the whole room?

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Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
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What model receiver is it?

The newer "digital" amplifiers use high speed switching modes very similar to your PC power supply. Some designs may be quite unfriendly to the supplying circuit in that they send lots of broadband noise back into the line. If any waveform is riding on this noise and harmonizes within beat distance (slightly off zero beat) with the PSU switching circuitry the result can be an anomaly. Unfortunately the only way to tell for sure this is happening is by using very expensive line quality analyzers. You could probably see it on a decent scope but caution is advised before connecting probes to utility powered conductors!
 

Auggie

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2003
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0
That sounds like a highly exotic problem, Rubycon.

So, the new PSU is in and it's running fine with which devices plugged in? With the receiver running also?
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
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That sounds like a highly exotic problem, Rubycon.

So, the new PSU is in and it's running fine with which devices plugged in? With the receiver running also?

It may sound exotic (rare) but with more and more common devices these days using SMPS you have to wonder. The reason why wall warts are so light is because they use switching.

The cheap offshore CFLs also produce a ton of distortion that can cause electronics to malfunction.

Fortunately a GOOD ups will have some hash filtering. The only way to galvanically isolate the sensitive load from the mains is by the use of a ferroresonant transformer. Well not the only way - a motor/generator will work but I was trying to be somewhat practical. ;)
 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
What model receiver is it?

The newer "digital" amplifiers use high speed switching modes very similar to your PC power supply. Some designs may be quite unfriendly to the supplying circuit in that they send lots of broadband noise back into the line. If any waveform is riding on this noise and harmonizes within beat distance (slightly off zero beat) with the PSU switching circuitry the result can be an anomaly. Unfortunately the only way to tell for sure this is happening is by using very expensive line quality analyzers. You could probably see it on a decent scope but caution is advised before connecting probes to utility powered conductors!

God you talk dirty :p
 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
It may sound exotic (rare) but with more and more common devices these days using SMPS you have to wonder. The reason why wall warts are so light is because they use switching.

The cheap offshore CFLs also produce a ton of distortion that can cause electronics to malfunction.

Fortunately a GOOD ups will have some hash filtering. The only way to galvanically isolate the sensitive load from the mains is by the use of a ferroresonant transformer. Well not the only way - a motor/generator will work but I was trying to be somewhat practical. ;)

The only way to galvanically isolate the sensitive load from the mains is by the use of a ferroresonant transformer = isolation transformer.

(sorry i had to give the english translation)
 

effowe

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2004
6,012
18
81
What model receiver is it?

It's an Aiwa AV-D55, and it has to be at least 10 years old by now. It just has standard composite inputs in the back, none of the newer digital inputs.

That sounds like a highly exotic problem, Rubycon.

So, the new PSU is in and it's running fine with which devices plugged in? With the receiver running also?

Well, the receiver is plugged into the outlet in the living room. The computer is running on the same strip as 2 monitors in the computer room, and there is another strip in the same room with my router and vcr plugged into it.
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
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The only way to galvanically isolate the sensitive load from the mains is by the use of a ferroresonant transformer = isolation transformer.

Ferro is a type of isolation transformer. It's superior to a standard iron core 1:1 for conditioning, VSP, and lightning protection. 120dB of rejection is not uncommon!

It's an Aiwa AV-D55, and it has to be at least 10 years old by now. It just has standard composite inputs in the back, none of the newer digital inputs.



Well, the receiver is plugged into the outlet in the living room. The computer is running on the same strip as 2 monitors in the computer room, and there is another strip in the same room with my router and vcr plugged into it.

Digital was referring to the amplifier type not the source input. If it's that old we can rule that out. The receiver/system can still be the culprit if the combination of speaker wires, etc. is funneling strong RF signals from a source outside even miles away!
 
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Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
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Other devices can definitely mess with the power of a home.
I can cause all sorts of havoc for someone listening to music with two items. A switch and a lamp. Plug in the lamp and rapidly turn the switch off and on. Even more fun if the switch is connected to something like a AC powered fan.
 

effowe

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2004
6,012
18
81
Digital was referring to the amplifier type not the source input. If it's that old we can rule that out. The receiver/system can still be the culprit if the combination of speaker wires, etc. is funneling strong RF signals from a source outside even miles away!

Oh, well it doesn't have any digital inputs, but there is a sticker saying that it is "Dolby Digital Ready." Don't know if that makes a difference. Interesting about the RF signals, what could be some sources? My wireless router is sitting right on top of the speaker.
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Other devices can definitely mess with the power of a home.
I can cause all sorts of havoc for someone listening to music with two items. A switch and a lamp. Plug in the lamp and rapidly turn the switch off and on. Even more fun if the switch is connected to something like a AC powered fan.

That's because the switch produces a spark when it breaks the power. Sparks produce broadband noise.

If you REALLY want to raise cane hold the switch until the light flickers and the switch buzzes/pops. :eek:

OP: Do you have a decent power strip with filtering? Try connecting your PC to that instead of plugging into the wall sharing with other devices.

http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ISOBAR6DBS-Protector-Suppressor/dp/B0000511X0
 
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Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,506
378
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Oh, well it doesn't have any digital inputs, but there is a sticker saying that it is "Dolby Digital Ready." Don't know if that makes a difference. Interesting about the RF signals, what could be some sources? My wireless router is sitting right on top of the speaker.

Lousy idea! Of all the devices in a room, the ones with the biggest magnets operating on AC signals are the speakers! Now, that does not always cause a problem because the speakers are operating a frequencies well below those in computer circuits, but it still can induce low-frequency noise signals in wiring and especially in wireless router input circuits that pick up weak electromagnetic fields and feed them to booster amps. I suggest moving the router (and anything else) off the speaker.

Here's another thought to try. What you describe sounds a lot like the computer, or one of its attached peripherals, is picking up extraneous noise signals. Normally this is not a problem because good chassis grounding helps to shield the internals. But a poor or non-existent Ground connection can eliminate the noise shielding. Get one of those outlet checker devices from a hardware store. They plug into any outlet and their light pattern tells you whether everything in that outlet is wired and functioning correctly, including whether the Ground is OK. You can plug this into any outlet, so start from the wall and then test outlets on your power bars, maybe even rig it to test the ends of power cords that feed into your PSU, etc. Look for any malfunctions.

Poor grounds can be a real problem with small devices powered by "wall warts". Most of these actually do NOT have their own direct Ground connection that will help reduce noise pick-up, so they depend on a Ground connection provided by the signal cable that attaches them to something else. So a signal cable with a broken Ground lead can cause trouble and be very hard to spot.

There is another more subtle source of potential trouble. You say you have two power bars for two groups of devices. On rare occasions if those two are fed by DIFFERENT branch circuits coming from the breaker box you can get odd low-voltage "noise signals" as a result of slightly mismatched Neutral lines. As a start, try to identify which breaker controls which outlets in your rooms. First, is ALL of your computer system (both power bars, etc) on the same breaker? If not, maybe try to re-arrange which outlets are used to get them all together on one circuit.

Now, what about the outlet that the receiver is plugged into (in the other room). Is that one from a different breaker? I would expect it is. But if it is NOT - that is, if the receiver's power source in the next room actually is on the SAME breaker as your computer - it makes your story even more puzzling. That is because you say that plugging the receiver into the more distant outlet eliminates the trouble, even though the receiver is still in the same room as the computer. Or, has that scenario changed?