Costs: Death Penalty vs. Life Without Parole

Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
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Which costs more? You decide.
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Cost Savings: The Death Penalty


Reasonable and responsible protocols, currently in use, will produce a death penalty which costs no more, or will cost less, than Life Without Parole (LWOP).

Death penalty states could better implement justice, as given by jurors, and save taxpayers money, currently wasted by many irresponsible state systems.

1) Obvious solution, Improve the system

Virginia executes in 5-7 years. 65% of those sentenced to death have been executed. Only 15% of their death penalty cases are overturned. The national averages are 11 years, 14% and 36%, respectively.

With the high costs of long term imprisonment, a true life sentence will be more expensive than such a death penalty protocol.


2) Current cost study problems

a) Geriatric care: Most cost studies exclude geriatric care, recently found to be $60,000-$90,000/inmate/yr., a significant omission from life sentence costs. Prisoners are often found to be geriatric at relatively young ages, 50-55, because of lifestyle.

b) Plea Bargain to life: Only the presence of the death penalty allows for a plea bargain to a maximum life sentence. Such plea cost benefit, estimated at $500,000 to $1 million/case, accrues as a cost benefit/credit to the death penalty. I am aware of no study which includes this.

c) The cost of death row: No additional cost is necessary. Missouri and Kansas don't have a death row.

NOTE: Depending upon jurisdiction, the inclusion of only 2a and 2b may result in a minimal cost differential between the two sanctions or an actual net cost benefit to the death penalty. Adding (1) would, very likely, mean that all death penalty jurisdictions would see a cost savings with the death penalty when comparing it to a true life sentence.



3) The Disinformation Problem: The pure deception in some cost "studies" is overt

a) Some studies compare the cost of a death penalty case, including pre trial, trial, appeals and incarceration, to only the cost of incarceration for 40 years, excluding all trial costs and appeals, and geriatric care for a life sentence. The much cited, highly misleading Texas "study" does this.
b) It has been claimed that it costs $3.2 million/execution in Florida. That "study" decided to add the cost of the entire death penalty system in Florida ($57 million), which included all of the death penalty cases and dividing that number by only the number of executions (18). It is the same as stating that the cost of LWOP is $15 million/case, based upon all costs of 2000 LWOP cases being placed into the 40 lifers to have died (given an average cost of $300, 000/LWOP case, so far, for those 2000 cases.). The much cited and misused Duke University death penalty cost analysis for North Carolina does the same thing.
c) Many of the "studies", such as Maryland's (2008), suffer from similar or worse problems.



4) Deterrence "value"

Economist Dr. Paul Zimmerman finds that executions result in a huge cost benefit to society. "Specifically, it is estimated that each state execution deters somewhere between 3 and 25 murders per year (14 being the average). Zimmerman, assuming that the value of human life is approximately $5 million {i.e. the average of the range estimates provided by Viscussi (1993)}, our estimates imply that society avoids losing approximately $70 million per year on average at the current rate of execution all else equal." The study used state level data from 1978 to 1997 for all 50 states (excluding Washington D.C.). (1)

That is a cost benefit of $70 million per execution. 15 additional recent studies, inclusive of their defenses, support the deterrent effect.

Although I may find it inappropriate to put a dollar value on life, evidently this is not uncommon for economists, insurers, etc.

We know that living murderers are infinitely more likely to harm and murder, again, than are executed murderers. There is no doubt that executions do save innocent lives. What value do you put on the lives saved? Certainly not less than $5 million.



5) Justice

The main reason sentences are given is because jurors find that it is the most just punishment available. No state, concerned with justice, will base a decision on cost, alone. If they did, all cases would be plea bargained and every crime would have a probation option.
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1). "State Executions, Deterrence and the Incidence of Murder", Paul R. Zimmerman (zimmy@att.net), March 3. 2003, Social Science Research Network, http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID354680_code021216500.pdf?abstractid=354680

copyright 2003-2009 Dudley Sharp
Permission for distribution of this document, in whole or in part, is approved with proper attribution.

Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters
e-mail sharpjfa@aol.com, 713-622-5491,
Houston, Texas
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
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so you just copy pasted an article from the internet? nothing to add from your side? that's fucked up, thread should be locked and you banned.
 

Jaepheth

Platinum Member
Apr 29, 2006
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If executions are supposed to be a deterrent, then why aren't they public?
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
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I'm a believer in the death penalty, but the argument supporting it or opposing it based on cost really is offensive given that we're talking about ending someone's life. Can you imagine how people would react if cost was among the talking points when we discuss abortion? Well, putting that kid through foster care is 100x as expensive....

Either the death pentlty is justifiable or it is not - how much it costs should not be an argument made by either side as it really cheapens the discussion.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
59,071
9,481
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I'm a believer in the death penalty, but the argument supporting it or opposing it based on cost really is offensive given that we're talking about ending someone's life. Can you imagine how people would react if cost was among the talking points when we discuss abortion? Well, putting that kid through foster care is 100x as expensive....

Either the death pentlty is justifiable or it is not - how much it costs should not be an argument made by either side as it really cheapens the discussion.

^^^This, except I'm opposed to the death penalty. There's too much fraud in the system to trust it with someone's life.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
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What we need to do is get a real cost savings with the death penalty and then open it up to a multitude of crimes. We could end up culling the desirables, eventually just putting to death anybody convicted for a first time minor offense like shoplifting. Imagine how pure we'd be as a society, then.
 

notposting

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2005
3,498
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I'm also opposed to the death penalty. However, the costs should be lowered. Not sure how, not like prison is a country club, or well staffed or whatever (there's gotta be some kickbacks going on somewhere though).

Of course, I would also advocate vast improvements in our education system, a complete revamp of our welfare/support systems, immigration reform, nuking of DC, intelligent military reduction, increased support for science and research, less government intrusion (how much *does* it cost for the NSA to spy on all of us??), and so on and so forth.

Everything is so intertwined, and our political system is so full of graft and general douchebaggery, that I think, in short, we are fucked. Does anyone here actually want to see what the US would be like in 100 years?
 

Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
3,622
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I'm a believer in the death penalty, but the argument supporting it or opposing it based on cost really is offensive given that we're talking about ending someone's life. Can you imagine how people would react if cost was among the talking points when we discuss abortion? Well, putting that kid through foster care is 100x as expensive....

Either the death penalty is justifiable or it is not - how much it costs should not be an argument made by either side as it really cheapens the discussion.

Costs are relevant to this discussion. Knowledge is good.
 
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gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
454
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so you just copy pasted an article from the internet? nothing to add from your side? that's fucked up, thread should be locked and you banned.

He loves Jesus... Copying messages from the source material without any thought of his own is pretty standard.
 

T_Yamamoto

Lifer
Jul 6, 2011
15,007
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That copy and paste.

nub didn't even change the font to what the default is for ATOT.
 

Pardus

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2000
8,197
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Around 2.5 million Americans are incarcerated currently, the US is spending untold billions to feed, treat and house them. That money should be spent on helping the poor and homeless who really need it.

The truth is, the real sick mofo's who commit serial killings, cannibalism, manslaughter, murder, DUI manslaughter, rape, etc. will never be rehabilitated. Once your that fucked up, there isn't much hope.

Take all those hard core bad-ass criminals in supermax security prisons, drop them off on Tristan da Cunha with no chance of escape and let them kill each other off.

This would make more room in our prisons and maybe just maybe, the next rapist will think twice before going though with it.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
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Even if executions were increased by 500 percent costs would not go down they would probably go up when you consider the costs of the trials.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,737
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tl;dr

life w/o parole is cheaper than the death sentence due to state paid independent defense lawyers and mandatory appeals
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
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I stopped at point 1. There is no way to change the system in a way that is beneficial to the death penalty. The standard is set by the Supreme Court and it won't change without a constitutional amendment which is too high of a bar.

Anyone who is pro-death penalty has to face facts: the Supreme Court ruined the cost benefits of the death penalty forever in the USA. You have to justify its worth paying more to kill these people for your argument to actually be taken seriously.

Arguments like "we could fix it" or "a bullet is cheap" cuts you out of the conversation completely.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
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The fact this guy used an @aol email address in 2009 means I would be embarrassed reposting this.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
69,705
13,329
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www.betteroff.ca
I never understood why executions have to be so expensive, there's definitly someone at the top lining their pockets and profiting from them, which is quite sickening.

I have mixed feelings about death penalty, but if it's going to be done, at least cut out all the BS that makes it expensive for nothing.