Costco Apologizes For Bibles Labeled As Fiction At California Store

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Apr 27, 2012
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Hey hold on .....Incorruptible just admitted that Obama is a christian. That's some significant growth for him. Canada is going to turn him into a raging liberal if he spends to much time north of the border. ;)

STFU You moron. I never said obama was a Muslim and you're nothing but a liar. Once again you're spouting BS.

As one of the few remaining Jews (well, atheist, but I don't think that would have mollified Hitler when he came a-knockin), I gotta say that the optics of one of the 2 billion Christians complaining about being "targeted" or "persecuted" or on the receiving side of "hostility" is really tugging on my heartstrings.

Do you not pay attention to the media? Look at all the vicious attacks towards Christians. In the Middle East they are being killed and their Churches attacked. They also face rampant discrimination in those countries.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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Well seeing as if Darwin's name has been invoked, it seems to lead to the question of whether or not his works would be just fine sitting along side the bible in the fiction section, grey areas notwithstanding.

Seeing how Darwin's works have, and continue to, stand up to the scientific method while steadily increasing actual scientific evidence to support it, I fail to see your point.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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And honestly, while Richard Dawkins is a very intelligent man who can explain evolution well ... he always seems to be kinda a dick to people. I don't like him being the champion of evolution because he puts people off.

Science requires proof, which the Theory of Evolution provides, not "champions". That would be akin to someone saying their math teacher was a dick so therefore they refuse to believe that 1+1=2, the teacher being a dick has absolutely zero relevance to the facts and Theories that they are attempting to teach.

OTOH, he is a bit of a dick to religious folk and I agree that his methods don't put atheism/atheists, in general, in the best light.

As far as Robs comment of "do you have an original thought to add", thats rather amusing coming from the side arguing religion which by definition is opposite of "original thought".
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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STFU You moron. I never said obama was a Muslim and you're nothing but a liar. Once again you're spouting BS.



Do you not pay attention to the media? Look at all the vicious attacks towards Christians. In the Middle East they are being killed and their Churches attacked. They also face rampant discrimination in those countries.

And Muslims are far more likely to blow up other Muslims than they are to blow up any other group.

Whats your point? Should we go to war with those countries to protect the Christians? If not, exactly what should we do about it?

Better yet, we are generally talking about right here in the good ole USA. If the best example of this great Christian persecution that you can offer is what is happening in a few backwater countries than I am very disappointed in you. I think you would be hard pressed to find a religious group that ISN'T persecuted somewhere in the world, meaning that yall aren't special.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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No, it's just stating that the theory of evolution is incomplete. To say evolution explains all the changes or progressions that have occurred in life, you need to know all those changes. Certainly going from what we would consider "not Life" to "life" would be part of that.

How mass came to exist is not part of the Theory of Gravity yet without mass, as we understand it, gravity could not exist. The fact that it doesn't explain how mass came to exist isn't relevant though because that is not the point of the Theory. Same thing with Evolution, it doesn't attempt to explain how life began at all, it explains how life gradually changes after it began. We have entirely different theories for the other things.

Could you imagine how complicated and convoluted our science would be if every time we attempted to explain how something works we had to also explain how it came to be in the Universe? Where did math come from? Is our current understanding of math invalid because we can't answer the question of "how it came to exist"? Of course it isn't.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
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STFU You moron. I never said obama was a Muslim and you're nothing but a liar. Once again you're spouting BS.
.

Where did I say you did? However you have said on more than one occasion that people who support Obama's policies can not be Christians. So I am shocked you would admit Obama is a Christian.

Next time why don't you actually try understanding what you are reading before resorting to name calling?
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
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Seeing how Darwin's works have, and continue to, stand up to the scientific method while steadily increasing actual scientific evidence to support it, I fail to see your point.

Yes, I agree in the sense that you're looking at it from an evolutionist's point of view. However, for clarification's sake, my comment was meant to bring parity to both schools of thought by mentioning how a creationist would look at darwinism as an evolutionist would look at the bible.
 
Apr 27, 2012
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And Muslims are far more likely to blow up other Muslims than they are to blow up any other group.

Whats your point? Should we go to war with those countries to protect the Christians? If not, exactly what should we do about it?

Better yet, we are generally talking about right here in the good ole USA. If the best example of this great Christian persecution that you can offer is what is happening in a few backwater countries than I am very disappointed in you. I think you would be hard pressed to find a religious group that ISN'T persecuted somewhere in the world, meaning that yall aren't special.

That is true and I have stated this before. The US shouldn't go to war but they should stop giving them US tax dollars and speak out against the senseless killings.

Christians are attacked in the US but it's far more violent in other parts of the world though. Christians are insulted all the time while the same morons never say anything about other religions. There was the piss Christ "art" which they would never do to the other religions. And that moron obama claiming the US isn't a Christian nation.

Don't forget the Christian who made the video about Islam and was then put in jail for it.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
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Again, another issue that is totally ridiculous to get ones panties all in a twist over.
pLeAsE ....
Got milk? Then get a life while you're at it.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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Yes, I agree in the sense that you're looking at it from an evolutionist's point of view. However, for clarification's sake, my comment was meant to bring parity to both schools of thought by mentioning how a creationist would look at darwinism as an evolutionist would look at the bible.

What the fuck is an "evolutionist"? Is that like being a "mathist" because I "believe" that 1+1=2? A "gravityist" is I believe that if I drop a rock off the top off a roof that it will fall to the ground?

I simply call those people rationale, intelligent and objective. Besides, one of the groups you cite has a massive amount of evidence on their side and the other has absolutely zero. So personally I group the above as "sane" and batshit crazy and/or ignorant. Nothing wrong with being ignorant, its the willfully ignorant that aggravate the hell out of me.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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That is true and I have stated this before. The US shouldn't go to war but they should stop giving them US tax dollars and speak out against the senseless killings.

Are you talking about just the nations that are bad to Christians or nations that are bad to any group whatsoever?

Christians are attacked in the US but it's far more violent in other parts of the world though.

Christians being physically attacked purely because they are Christians here in the US is statistically ZERO. Sure you can pull up a case or two but I would wager that far more gay folk have been attacked by Christians than Christians who have been attacked by everyone else combined (at least here in the US).

Christians are insulted all the time while the same morons never say anything about other religions.

Awww, did someone hurt your feelings? Do you need a hug?

There was the piss Christ "art" which they would never do to the other religions.

Do you not remember the drawings of Muhammad that sparked riots in other nations????? Seriously?

And that moron obama claiming the US isn't a Christian nation.

Well, umm, we aren't. That damned first amendment that you hate so much (until you want it to work in your favor at least) always getting in the way.

Don't forget the Christian who made the video about Islam and was then put in jail for it.

Here in the US? Please link me. Christians have got to be the least persecuted group in the entire world and by far the most pandered to in the US.

Happy holidays.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
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What the fuck is an "evolutionist"? Is that like being a "mathist" because I "believe" that 1+1=2? A "gravityist" is I believe that if I drop a rock off the top off a roof that it will fall to the ground?

I simply call those people rationale, intelligent and objective. Besides, one of the groups you cite has a massive amount of evidence on their side and the other has absolutely zero. So personally I group the above as "sane" and batshit crazy and/or ignorant. Nothing wrong with being ignorant, its the willfully ignorant that aggravate the hell out of me.

evolutionist [ˌiːvəˈluːʃənɪst]
n(Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Biology) a person who believes in a theory of evolution, esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species

adj(Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Biology) of or relating to a theory of evolutionevolutionism n
evolutionistic adj

I understand your logic. I personally think it's sound and reasonable. However, unlike you, I don't absolutely reject the possibility of a higher being. I'm not saying I believe there is one, but I'm open minded enough to accept the idea that there is a possibility of the existence of one.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
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All good stories deserve embellishment. There is probably a shred of truth to the stories, but I would imagine the main morals/takeaway message has stayed largely the same.

Anyway I'm not surprised its a Cali Costco. Shelf guy probably asked his boss if its goes under fiction, clueless boss gives the go ahead etc. etc.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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One woman's ridiculous lie that got out of hand. Uhhh...yea..I didn't bang the neighbor.....must be a miracle!
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
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Here in the US? Please link me. Christians have got to be the least persecuted group in the entire world and by far the most pandered to in the US.

I believe he's referring to the guy who made the video that sparked the riots in Egypt and that were originally believed to have motivated the attack in Libya. The guy was on probation for fraud at the time he made the video and was jailed shortly after when he violated his probation. Incorruptible seems to think that him attacking Islam should make him exempt from punishment for breaking the law.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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How mass came to exist is not part of the Theory of Gravity yet without mass, as we understand it, gravity could not exist. The fact that it doesn't explain how mass came to exist isn't relevant though because that is not the point of the Theory. Same thing with Evolution, it doesn't attempt to explain how life began at all, it explains how life gradually changes after it began. We have entirely different theories for the other things.

Could you imagine how complicated and convoluted our science would be if every time we attempted to explain how something works we had to also explain how it came to be in the Universe? Where did math come from? Is our current understanding of math invalid because we can't answer the question of "how it came to exist"? Of course it isn't.

It doesn't attempt to explain how life began because we really don't know. If we did, it would be part of the theory.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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evolutionist [ˌiːvəˈluːʃənɪst]
n(Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Biology) a person who believes in a theory of evolution, esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species

adj(Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Biology) of or relating to a theory of evolutionevolutionism n
evolutionistic adj

I understand your logic. I personally think it's sound and reasonable. However, unlike you, I don't absolutely reject the possibility of a higher being. I'm not saying I believe there is one, but I'm open minded enough to accept the idea that there is a possibility of the existence of one.
A very logical stance. A belief that there is no higher being is arrogant beyond belief (pun intended) whereas a belief that ones knows everything about that being requires accepting that others understand what you cannot. We understand little about our cosmos and probably about G-d.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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One woman's ridiculous lie that got out of hand. Uhhh...yea..I didn't bang the neighbor.....must be a miracle!

I can't imagine anything more deserving of the title 'miracle' than convincing one's fiance you are a pregnant virgin. Talking about a tough audience!
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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What the fuck is an "evolutionist"? Is that like being a "mathist" because I "believe" that 1+1=2? A "gravityist" is I believe that if I drop a rock off the top off a roof that it will fall to the ground?

I simply call those people rationale, intelligent and objective. Besides, one of the groups you cite has a massive amount of evidence on their side and the other has absolutely zero. So personally I group the above as "sane" and batshit crazy and/or ignorant. Nothing wrong with being ignorant, its the willfully ignorant that aggravate the hell out of me.

Aww, poor Darwin a little butt hurt and can't take a shred of criticism but loves to dish it out. Good thing science isn't as sensitive as you are.

Of course, "evolutionist" is used in the same manner "creationist" is used...and that's pejoratively.

So what? No ones exempt from criticism...not even evolutionists, unless you think that your position is indeed infallible.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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evolutionist [ˌiːvəˈluːʃənɪst]
n(Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Biology) a person who believes in a theory of evolution, esp Darwin's theory of the evolution of plant and animal species

adj(Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Biology) of or relating to a theory of evolutionevolutionism n
evolutionistic adj

I understand your logic. I personally think it's sound and reasonable. However, unlike you, I don't absolutely reject the possibility of a higher being. I'm not saying I believe there is one, but I'm open minded enough to accept the idea that there is a possibility of the existence of one.

Actually I don't necessarily outright reject the possibility of a higher being, I simply see zero evidence of one existing. If that changes during my lifetime I will reevaluate my position and I will do so happily.

My point though was that one group accepts the current Theory as our current best understanding of how life evolved over time based on sound and more than ample evidence. The other group accepts something based on blind faith alone. Those two groups are simply not comparable given the context you were attempting.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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As far as Robs comment of "do you have an original thought to add", thats rather amusing coming from the side arguing religion which by definition is opposite of "original thought".

Hey bro, if all you do is quote Dawkins all day long as he does, and link exclusively to his youtube videos like they're Gospel, then you don't have anything original to add...
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
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A very logical stance. A belief that there is no higher being is arrogant beyond belief (pun intended) whereas a belief that ones knows everything about that being requires accepting that others understand what you cannot. We understand little about our cosmos and probably about G-d.

I actually think that believing that there is some higher being and that our species was created and nurtured to be dominant and are as a result special is arrogant beyond belief.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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It doesn't attempt to explain how life began because we really don't know. If we did, it would be part of the theory.

Actually, no it still wouldn't. There is an entire different set of theories that attempt to explain the beginnings of life. The work is very different and requires very different specialties.

Perhaps one day when we do know all of it from A-Z as absolute fact we will unify the theories but make no mistake it will be a combination of multiple theories and not a single one.

You shouldn't take my word for it though, I believe our current theories about the beginning of life are called abiogenesis / biopiesis and most of the science is based on chemistry instead of biology.

With that said, I still don't understand the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to invoke the god of the gaps or something? That is no different than how we used to consider the Sun a god because we didn't comprehend what it could possibly be. We now have a very good understanding of not only what it is but how it came to be so we no longer worship the Sun as a god.
 

networkman

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
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Were I to find myself at a Costco and see a display of "Fiction Books" with the Bible being listed as one of them, I personally would not be terribly offended.

We're told in the Bible that people will refuse to see the truth of creation and the Creator and will happily trade it for a lie. So a fiction display in a Costco should not shock us at all.

From a marketing standpoint, it would have made more sense for Costco to have had the Bible in under a Religion heading, along with books of other religions. But I can see why they might not have put it under a Non-Fiction heading next to the Plumbing and Auto Repair books.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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I actually think that believing that there is some higher being and that our species was created and nurtured to be dominant and are as a result special is arrogant beyond belief.

WE are the dominate species on this planet. Whether or not we're special lies, in my opinion, in the belief there is life outside this solar system.

But saying over and over again that we're not special doesn't make it so.