Corsair Carbide 200R: Standoff Problem?

[Mantrid-Drone]

I've found several old threads here discussing whether using heavy aftermarket CPU coolers should be a source of concern as regards MB stress and long term damage.

Most replies seemed to suggest that because such a CPU cooler has a backing plate which spreads the force across the board there should be no problem. However this assumes the MB itself is effectively fixed and supported in the case. The reason I'm posting here is because of this requirement.

The Corsair Carbide 200R case I've just bought for my second build uses both fixed and removeable standoffs, also including another standoff screw position. The problem, if it is a problem, is that when used with a Gigabyte G87-HD3 MB and it would seem the many other 305mm x 224mm Gigabyte ATX MBs there is no proper standoff for the centre right side of the board at all.

The MB width means that it can't make use of the fixed standoffs in the case (244mm) on the far right. The furthest right centre mounting hole on the MB does not coincide with any case standoff position. The centre near right position is taken up with a 'locating pillar' which as far as I can see just pokes through the corresponding hole in the MB, probably not providing any support at all.

What this means is that there is nothing holding the MB to the case in the centre except the standoff on the left.

The question is: is it still OK to use to use an aftermarket CPU cooler like the Coolermaster Evo 212 Hyper which as I have it weighs in at over 900gms (approx 2lbs) with the minimal support for the MB across the whole of the central area?

I've opened a ticket with Corsair about this and, so far, they've not been able to provide an answer or explain why the case doesn't at least have a screw mount standoff position for that furthest centre right MB mounting hole on boards of this size/layout.

In my first build which was with a similar size Gigabyte Z77 MB I used a Coolermaster Elite 330 case which had standoff mounting points for both the right side MB mounting holes. With a Scythe Rasetscu CPU Cooler (approx 750gms/1.6lbs) it feels very solid.

This YouTube video I found shows the Corsair case being used with a Gigabyte MB of the same size for a very similar build to my one. However whilst he comments on the both the lack of standoff and the 'locating pillar' he is only using a stock cooler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zOYdNEHDQo

Relevant section is at 40mins 30 secs >.

 

[Tweakin]

I wouldn't recommend anything that heavy, and that is one of the reasons I left air cooling for water...no weight on the MB.

If I recall correctly, most MB's are rated at 500 grams of weight...but don't quote me, it's been a long time since I researched that number.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

What you describe sounds a bit strange. I ran a web-search on the board model to take me to the Gigabyte web-site, and zoomed in more closely at the top-view of the board in their gallery. Usually, there are some nine mounting holes for an ATX board to my recollection, or I at least remember counting the screws. But there should be three at the bottom (in the usual tower orientation, three across at the center, and three at the top. And -- you're right -- there are no holes on the right side where you'd expect them.

If the case DOESN'T have standoffs for mounting screws where the board provides a hole for them, your option can be fairly simple if you want to address it. First, make sure what size screw and thread the standoffs themselves fit. I was thinking it should be 6-32 -- or the same type of screw that you get in a bag to install a PSU. It's a standard, classic PC item.

The screw-tapping tool for that size can be had at Sears for about $5, and should come paired with a drill-bit. At this point, your only concern would be precise measurement. You'd want to take special care to drill -- and then tap the thread -- perfectly straight as possible.

But what you're telling me is that holes aren't in the MOTHERBOARD where they should be. Here's what I think, as you continue to sort this out.

You're biggest concern should wither under the fact that the four holes closest to the CPU socket seem to be all there: either side of the I/O ports and plate; one in the center; one "southeast" of the CPU socket. Those are really the only screws that bear most of the weight and torque of a CPU cooler.

Intel had promulgated a spec for heatsink-fan weight some years back. It was something between 450 and 500 grams. It was determined even then -- when boards weren't built to be "extra durable" or according to "MIL" specs -- that this weight spec was unnecessarily conservative. There was one copper cooler often described as the "Zalman Flower" which was well over a kilogram and change.

If you look at other heatpipe cooler options and they give the weight of the product to include the fans, figure each fan weighs 6 ounces -- two fans 3/4 lb. Most of the torque on these coolers derives from the fan weight; the rest of the weight is closer to the heatsink-base, so therefore creating much less torque or strain on the board.

So it is possible to mount the cooler fans a different way. Even so, with those four holes I mentioned, I would think you're just fine.

By the way. You should be able to purchase the appropriate standoffs at any local Electronics "jobber" warehouse, but they can also be purchased online.

 

[Tweakin]

What you describe sounds a bit strange. I ran a web-search on the board model to take me to the Gigabyte web-site, and zoomed in more closely at the top-view of the board in their gallery. Usually, there are some nine mounting holes for an ATX board to my recollection, or I at least remember counting the screws. But there should be three at the bottom (in the usual tower orientation, three across at the center, and three at the top. And -- you're right -- there are no holes on the right side where you'd expect them.

You are correct, nine is the normal number. Some Gigabyte boards, such as mine and the op's, the board is actually slightly narrower then ATX specs. So, when you look directly at the board, the top and bottom right side supports are missing. Additionally, they have moved the middle right side hole in and is about 2 inches from the center hole. This gives you just 7 mounting supports. I have holes in my Lian Li and NZXT case for this configuration, but I'm surprised that Corsair doesn't. It's not that rare.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You are correct, nine is the normal number. Some Gigabyte boards, such as mine and the op's, the board is actually slightly narrower then ATX specs. So, when you look directly at the board, the top and bottom right side supports are missing. Additionally, they have moved the middle right side hole in and is about 2 inches from the center hole. This gives you just 7 mounting supports. I have holes in my Lian Li and NZXT case for this configuration, but I'm surprised that Corsair doesn't. It's not that rare.

Well, the key to his concern is whether the four holes nearest the CPU socket can be mounted to standoffs. It looked to me that they would, although I didn't look further to see what his case offers.

I had turned this over in my mind almost too much since I started using heatpipe coolers around 2004/2005. The cooler itself only has real weight at the base, but that would not strain the motherboard. The biggest stress would come from the torque due to the fan weight spread over the height of a tower cooler, and most of that weight would come from the motors. This would simplify the calculus problem, so that you could simply measure that torque at the center-point(s) of the fan(s) themselves, and the distance would simply be a few inches.

There are relatively simple ways to mount a pusher fan so that it sits close to the cooler fins without putting weight on (causing torque to) what is otherwise a relatively light item. I'd accumulated some brackets for PCI slot-screw mounting with some Sunon fans; I also have some longer "arms" which mount fans in the same way to those PCI slot-screws. The idea behind those arm-brackets was to suspend a fan over graphics and PCI cards.

One could use such a bracket anchored instead to the HDD cage or possibly the motherboard pan sitting in front of the cooler. Right away, if the motherboard pan's ATX-spec'd standoffs are unused (and they are . . ), then there's a ready-made mounting point for a fan bracket. If one couldn't "modify" the bracket so the fan would sit close to the cooler, you could simply build a simple duct-box to the cooler in about 10 minutes work -- another 20 minutes to allow the Foam-Safe or Hold-the-Foam to set.

So the question remains: "One fan? Two fans? How to mount the fans?" In the project summary I'm going to post for the Gentle Typhoon AP-30 fan, it should seem obvious that the same grade-school art-class activity would allow ducting the entire cooler to the case exhaust fan. Thus, -- no weight on the cooler, no torque from the cooler, no worries about the sparse motherboard mounting points, and one less fan to worry about.

At that point, the biggest expense might arise from choosing a better case exhaust fan! [although only a select twisted few are going to achieve Shangri-La organism over my choice of the AP-30.]

Perhaps urging him to find some brackets or buy the art-board, glue and Xacto knife is unnecessary, because I really think the mobo mounting points are no less adequate than having all nine ATX mounting points secured. But if it worries him, there's about an hour's work at a desk or table with some options that would leave him worry-free.

Getting a bit off course [but not like Flight #370], a final reminder: Light-weight fans are likely to be noisier at their top-end. He can either live with the "El Limpo" fans typically shipped with coolers, or engage in a "balancing act" with his choices. But the fan doesn't need to be mounted on the cooler, and ducting to the exhaust fan just frees up another motherboard fan header and reduces power consumption, if airflow through the cooler fins is still optimized.

 

[Tweakin]

I also started to think back on some of my older "air" builds, and I remember using some heavy duty "rubber bands" like the ones antec used to isolate their hard drives, and supported the cooler to the top of the case.

If I remember correctly, it worked really well!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I also started to think back on some of my older "air" builds, and I remember using some heavy duty "rubber bands" like the ones antec used to isolate their hard drives, and supported the cooler to the top of the case.

If I remember correctly, it worked really well!

I was thinking . . . "rubber surgical tubing" -- which is a light brown color. There are a lot of low-tech ideas which are still very useful! Wait 'til I post my AP-30 construction-paper project!

But we've covered all the bases of what he COULD do to eliminate his worries. I don't think he needs to do anything, but buy the cooler, bolt it through the mobo to the back-plate, and clip on the fan . . .

 

[Mantrid-Drone]

Thanks for the replies; a lot to think about.

I had considered both the ideas about supporting the CPU cooler by additional means, I'd read on other forums and some review sites where this sort of matter had been bought up suggestions to use stiff, suspended wire supports.

Drilling and tapping an appropriately positioned standoff hole in the case's MB tray for the MB's right side mount point would be the obvious DIY solution. But I don't have a drilling rig, drill bit or the experience to do that. With the cost alone it would make more sense to sell the case and buy a new equally good one which did provide standoff mounts for this size Gigabyte board.

The standoff height is another issue too. I couldn't use the standoffs which come with the case as they're designed for use with the recessed mount holes. Because the mount position is over a stiffening rib in the MB tray I'd have to modify them too unless I could find another one of the right height.

But that did get me thinking - is there any reason I couldn't use a standoff screwed to the MB but unattached to the case MB tray on that right side MB position?

That would only require the standoff mounting screw to be removed and maybe an extra few millimetres filed off the base if the height wasn't quite perfect. That is quite within my DIY skillset to do and I would have thought a good compromise. Being below the cooler the torque on the MB would tend to make it compress and bow down in that centre area. A 'free floating' standoff through the MB would prevent that almost as well as a fixed standoff even through not attached to case. Only with lateral or, less likely except in transport, upwards stress would it be less effective.

If anyone can think of a reason not to do this please speak up.

BTW I have checked various MB manufacturers specs and I was surprised to discover that the maximum weight for coolers recommended is not easy to find. But the one I did find, for a specific Gigabyte MB, not the one being used, was 450gms (1lb). I would assume that is for those using push pin mounting systems direct through the MB rather than ones with back mounting plates spreading the load.

It makes you think though because if not there are a huge range of aftermarket coolers out there, even 'lightweight' ones with sub-120mm fans, which at their basic configuration weight, exceed this limit by a huge margin eg:-

Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo (one fan):569gms

Scythe Ashura Shadow (one fan):750gms

Akasa Venon Nero (one fan): 560gms

Arctic Cooling Freezer 13 (one fan): 695gms

Zalman CNPS11X Extreme (one fan): 600gms

One hopes that the CPU cooler manufacturers do know what they're doing and have tested their products with the types of MB and cases they're likely to be mounted on and in.

Scythe Ashura Shadow Heatsink


Scythe Ashura ShadoScythe Ashura Shadow HeatsinkScythe Ashura Shadow Heatsinkw Heatsink

 

[aylafan]

Motherboards are pretty durable; I wouldn't worry so much about the weight of the CPU cooler. My ASRock Z87 Extreme4 motherboard is thinner than other motherboards in its class, but I'm able to use the CM Hyper 212 EVO with no problems.

I have a Corsair Carbide 200R with the CM Hyper 212 EVO.

 

[Mantrid-Drone]

That is a useful post and picture ^, thanks.

But when I checked the spec of the MB and blew up the image that particular MB is a full width 244mm one. It makes use of all the Corsair Carbide 200's right side, built in standoffs so it is being supported by 8 screw mounts (Left/Middle/Right top, L/M/R bottom and L/R centre + the 'locating pillar' in the centre M position).

The ASRock Z87 is just 20mm wider (<1") than the Gigabyte H87 which can only use 5 screw mount points in this case. So the Z87 clearly has more support overall and, crucially, in relation to the possible problem I've raised, it has support on the right centre of the board from the case's fixed standoff there.