core system upgrade, or AGP's last hurah?

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K

Kamikaze Ice

Junior Member
Dec 3, 2008
7
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in reply to the sticky...
Tasks? gaming primaraly, secondary as HTPC.
Budget? about $200-280. after gifts, i'm pretty broke this time of the year.
Country? United States of America.
Fanboy? i'm a fan of performance :) i'm NOT a fan of broken/non-working hardware.
Reusables? read further below.
Forum ettique? i've searched reviews, feedback, benchmarks and other important things related to possible hardware upgrades.
i admit i haven't really searched the forum, as i'm having a brain fart and cant think of things to search for that could be relevant.
i have read a few ultra-low budget and X piece vs Y piece threads (here and other sites)
Overclocking? when applicable, i would be aiming to overclock if budget allows for compatible hardware.
When? when i get all the parts, can't build it without them :) (preferably between today and christmas)


CURRENT PC (parts that matter anyways)
  • CPU - AMD Athlon 64 FX-51 (Sledgehammer) 2.2GHz, 1MB L2 Socket 940
    MOBO - ASUS SK8V
    RAM - 1024MB Corsair, DDR 400 (PC3200), CAS latency at 2 if it matters.
    GPU - ATI Radeon 9800 XT 256MB AGP(stock fan died, using a makeshift replacement out of a 80mm case fan, underclocked due to heat)
    PSU - Thermaltake Purepower (HPC-420-120 DF), 420W +12V@18A
NOTE: I use an older 37" HDTV as my monitor. max resolution is, unfortunetly, 1368x768.
i do have a backup 19" LCD with 1240x1080 but my HDTV is bigger :p

Yeah, that stuff is pretty ancient in computer years wouldn't you say?
because of my processor, i can't just swap motherboards and have access to better video cards
as noted in my current pc specs, my gpu fan died and i'm using a makeshift replacement for now.
so i'm looking for an upgrade solution, and i came up with two possible answers.

A) relace AGP card (and possibly PSU)
-or-
B) core system replacement

I much rather prefer option B, because my current hardware has been on 24/7/365 since 2003 (FX 51 release date), except for storms, OS reinstalls, playing with linux, and when my 9800 XT fan died recently (few weeks ago, hardly been on since)

the AGP card i was looking at was Powercolor Radeon HD 3850 512MB@$128.24 (including shipping)
as my PSU is most likely to weak, and doesn't have a PCI Express connector, i would have to upgrade this thing too.

that should put me at about $200 or there abouts.
now, would it be possible to migrate to a PCI Express setup for ABOUT the same price?

here's the cheapest good setup i could scrap together... (prices include shipping)
pre-rebates $317.82
post-rebates $222.82

the pre-rebate price is out of my current budget. :( (for about 110 more i could get a Q6600...! /sob)


so, i'm open to sugestions.
would my CPU bottleneck a 3650 to much for some newer games? bottleneck on cpu intestive games instead?
or should i try to make the most of my budget and find the coins in wierd places to upgrade to PCI-express?


FINAL NOTE: i dont necessaraly need a dual core, but since it was $48 i was trying to build everything around it. i'm fine with a single core. would like to stay with 1MB L2 cache.

ps - sorry for the long post, tried to make it as informative as possible. any sugestions are much appreciated!
 
B

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
1. The resolution you're running at is quite low by today's standards.
2. I think the $61 PowerColor 2600XT AGP would be a better option, if you stick with your current setup.
3. The lower priced 2600XT would give you more funds to bump up the memory to 2GBs.

[EDIT] Oops, I just looked at prices for registered DDR... Forget my memory comments.

* I agree that AGP is "dead". But considering the low resolution that you run, AGP isn't out yet. ;)
 
DSF

DSF

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2007
4,902
0
71
Is it possible that you could ask Santa for some gift cards or money for computer parts this year? The problem with a $250 budget is not that it can't be done, it's that you can do a much better job with a $350 or $450 budget.
 
K

Kamikaze Ice

Junior Member
Dec 3, 2008
7
0
0
unfortunatly santa is stuck with this budget until around fall of next year, when i will be building myself a new computer--case and all. i just need something til then.

at that time this computer will be given to my parents to use, whom play games and watch movies every now and then, so either way it will be getting upgraded mostly because of the age and wear of the parts.


so for about $200 i can get that 3850 and a new power supply, or i can squeeze out a little more and get a core system overhaul.


 
krnmastersgt

krnmastersgt

Platinum Member
Jan 10, 2008
2,873
0
0
Originally posted by: DSF
Is it possible that you could ask Santa for some gift cards or money for computer parts this year? The problem with a $250 budget is not that it can't be done, it's that you can do a much better job with a $350 or $450 budget.
Click to expand...

Gotta agree with that, having trouble finding a list of parts that would suit your needs for $250 (usually hitting between 300-350 amir)
 
O

Operandi

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,508
0
0
Your video card is by far the weakest link. I went from the same card to a x800 a couple of years ago and the difference was substantial, a 3650 or 3850 be much much faster. And as others have mentioned at that low of a resolution AGP you don't need an extremely powerful part. That being said you are pretty low on RAM, so you may want to address that also if possible.

Originally posted by: Kamikaze Ice
so for about $200 i can get that 3850 and a new power supply, or i can squeeze out a little more and get a core system overhaul.
Click to expand...

I think a 3850 will be fine on a 400+ watt PSU. But if thats a single 18A 12v rail then your out of luck.

Otherwise a 3650 needs very little in terms of power and would also be a big jump in terms of performance.
 
K

Kamikaze Ice

Junior Member
Dec 3, 2008
7
0
0
i can't really address the ram issue, as registered DDR ram costs quite a bit (2gb ddr2 ram for $6? i wish i could have that)

and yes its a single +12v rail. and the power supply itself is extremely old and worn (i'm possibly getting 360-490 watts total from the wear, to lazy to do a test)

as long as the at-purchase-time price is UNDER 300 i'll manage that much somehow. rebates afterwards that lower price even further would be nice but not nessecary.


unless newegg wants to give me my rebates instantly :p
 
T

ther00kie16

Golden Member
Mar 28, 2008
1,573
0
0
you've done an awesome job of hunting down the cheapest parts. depending on the games you are playing, it could save you a lot of money by getting an amd x2 with a $50 780g board that has somewhat decent integrated graphics. that would save you some money but it wouldn't be anywhere close to a 4670. you could also downgrade to a 8600 (it'd be a pretty big drop though) as those are as low as $25 after rebate at times. you can also wait for another 9600gso deal (~$40 after rebate).
you could also use your current psu since 4670 should not be nearly as power hungry as your 9800xt so as long as the psu has the 4 pin connector, i'd say reuse it.
 
K

Kamikaze Ice

Junior Member
Dec 3, 2008
7
0
0
well, i've managed to lower the price EVEN more.
  • CPU - AMD X2 5600+ 2.9GHz
    MOBO - ASUS M2A-VM
    RAM - 2x2GB OCZ DDR2 800
    GPU - Gigabyte Radeon HD 4670 512MB
    PSU - hec Orion XPOWER585 585W
Total = $279.04 with shipiing, and $239.04 after rebates.


Alternate build....
  • CPU - AMD X2 5500+ 2.6GHz
    MOBO - Foxconn A74MX-K
    RAM - 2x1GB OCZ DDR2 800
    GPU - Gigabyte Radeon HD 4670 512MB
    PSU - hec Orion XPOWER585 585W
Total = $251.84 with shipping, and $211.84 after rebates.

NOTE:
an OPEN BOX HD 4670 is availible for $55.61. thats about $25 less than a retail. but it's open box...
i can change the 2x1 ram for the Super Talent ram, see first post, for even more money back after rebates.


so, any opinions or comments for my super tight budget?

im particuarly worried about the PSU and motherboard for each build.
i've done a bunch of reading on what people thought of the PSU, and it seemed to be the best lowest price psu with lots of amps on the 12v rails (enough to run a 9600GSO atleast)
 
zerocool84

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: Kamikaze Ice
well, i've managed to lower the price EVEN more.
  • CPU - AMD X2 5600+ 2.9GHz
    MOBO - ASUS M2A-VM
    RAM - 2x2GB OCZ DDR2 800
    GPU - Gigabyte Radeon HD 4670 512MB
    PSU - hec Orion XPOWER585 585W
Total = $279.04 with shipiing, and $239.04 after rebates.


Alternate build....
  • CPU - AMD X2 5500+ 2.6GHz
    MOBO - Foxconn A74MX-K
    RAM - 2x1GB OCZ DDR2 800
    GPU - Gigabyte Radeon HD 4670 512MB
    PSU - hec Orion XPOWER585 585W
Total = $251.84 with shipping, and $211.84 after rebates.

NOTE:
an OPEN BOX HD 4670 is availible for $55.61. thats about $25 less than a retail. but it's open box...
i can change the 2x1 ram for the Super Talent ram, see first post, for even more money back after rebates.


so, any opinions or comments for my super tight budget?

im particuarly worried about the PSU and motherboard for each build.
i've done a bunch of reading on what people thought of the PSU, and it seemed to be the best lowest price psu with lots of amps on the 12v rails (enough to run a 9600GSO atleast)
Click to expand...

Umm I would seriously reconsider that PSU. $25 for a 585watt PSU spells disaster.
 
B

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: Kamikaze Ice
im particuarly worried about the PSU...
Click to expand...

Umm I would seriously reconsider that PSU. $25 for a 585watt PSU spells disaster.
Click to expand...
HEC puts out nice affordable power supplies. They aren't king of the hill, but they are good and reliable.
I do have the 585W listed. You shouldn't have any problems with it running all the parts you've listed.

 
K

Kamikaze Ice

Junior Member
Dec 3, 2008
7
0
0
well since my last post, i've determined my Athlon FX-51 to be much to big of a bottle neck for a HD 3850, and possibly even a HD 2600 XT.

new PSU - FSP Group SAGA+ 400R as it has free shipping.

I'm really trying to get the price as low as possible.


haven't seen any deals on a 9600 GSO or HD 4670 from anywhere, and the one 9600 GSO I saw on ebay for $50 is gone now :(
and so is the open box HD 4670.

I might have to spend more cash on a hard drive or two, as both 120GB's are well over the 35,000 hour mark.


I don't supose anyone has any recomendations for a CPU and Motherboard for less than $100?
current choice is now - AMD X2 5050e 2.6GHz & ASUS M2N-MX Plus combo at newegg = $102.98
the previously mentioned Foxconn no longer has free shipping and costs a few dollars more than this combo now.



i feel dirty for trying to make the cheapest possible dual core system :(

ps - mabey this thread can help others looking for a similar-type of upgrade with extremely low budgets, or just interested in "how low can it go"?
 
B

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
Originally posted by: Kamikaze Ice
i feel dirty for trying to make the cheapest possible dual core system :(

ps - mabey this thread can help others looking for a similar-type of upgrade with extremely low budgets, or just interested in "how low can it go"?
Click to expand...
This thread could help others in the same situation, but they'll never read it.
It's much easier to simply post a "Help be build..." thread than to actually read threads already started. :roll:

 
K

Kamikaze Ice

Junior Member
Dec 3, 2008
7
0
0
well i ran into a little bit of extra cash, so as long as I'm UNDER $300 pre-rebates with shipping i'm good.

here's a few things i've been pondering over.

AMD X2 5600+ 2.9GHz & G.SKILL 2x2GB DDR2 800 - $93.99
this combo is ~$2 more than a X2 5000 + 4GB ram, so i think this is the better buy.

Foxconn A7GM-S - $66.99
any cheaper boards than this that aren't shoddy, or have ALC888?
@ALC888: would an Audigy 2 ZS be just as good, despite vista driver issues? (whole reason i was interested in the above motherboard)
@FSB/HT: the X2 5600+ has a Hypertransport of 2000MHz, would there be a decrease in performance outside of synthetic benches in a motherboard@1000MHz?

possible Intel E5200 & <insert board here> be better than the X2 5600+ even if it is $5-10 more? the high multiplier should mean any inexpensive board should overclock decently, yes? would this be THAT much better, when OC'd, than the AMD route?

POWERCOLOR HD 4830 - $109.99
since it's cheaper than a 9800 GT, and apparently BETTER, I've been trying to squeeze this into my budget. only problem is the PSU. would either 400W PSU mentioned earlier work with this? any PSU over $30 (not including shipping) really throws things over the new budget limit.


Current total = $319.62 (AMD/RAM combo, 4830, Foxconn A7GM-S, SILVERSTONE ST400 400W)

*Edit*
only things getting power would be a possible Audigy 2 ZS, 2 IDE hard drives (swap music HD with a cd drive when i need to), 3-4 USB devices (two are keyboard/mouse), and 7x80mm fans (Xaser III case. with side window). and if i went Intel, a modest overclock but not very aggressive.
 
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