Core M 5Y51 1.1 GHz vs Athlon II X3 435 2.9 GHz

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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Just curious, is the Core M 1.1 GHz 5Y51 as fast as the old Athlon II X3 435 2.9 GHz?

The reason I ask is I finally installed a Samsung 850 EVO SSD and Win 10 in my Athlon II X3 435 triple-core 2.9 GHz desktop. It's not lightning fast obviously, but it does pretty well, and it perhaps feels a bit faster than the Core M 1.1 GHz 5Y51 MacBook (PCIe SSD) I played with a few times.

Are these CPUs roughly the same performance? If so, I'm thinking the difference in "OS feel" is likely the OS overhead, or how these CPUs interact with OS type workload.

Either way, if I do get a new laptop next year, hopefully it will be somewhat faster than both these machines, although both are very usable otherwise.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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The Core M has a massive advantage.... if it has good cooling.
If not, is 200 seconds of godly performance and then goes to that levels...
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Kind of an apples to oranges comparison. The athlon is a 95watt cpu in a desktop with good cooling. The core M is around 5 watts in a laptop with limited space and cooling. Even with the advances made since the x3, the core M will probably be slower, especially in any kind of sustained load under which it cant sustain full turbo. I think a haswell or skylake mobile 15 watt chip would be competitive with that x3, while of course a quad mobile i7 would be much faster.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
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The Core M has a massive advantage.... if it has good cooling.
If not, is 200 seconds of godly performance and then goes to that levels...

Nods, exactly.

Core-M when it is working kicks the ass out of intel core 2 quads of the 65nm generation and the phenom I and the low end of the phenom IIs quads and the phenom II tris.

Now these are not core m processors but here are two processors that are 35w core i3s that are like the high end core Ms when the core M can sustain its turbo boost indefinately.


6th Generation core i3-6100te @ 2.7 ghz which is comparable to the the following 6th generation core series but in core m

core m5 6y54 which is 1.1 ghz, turbo both cores to 2.4 ghz and turbo 1 core to 2.7 ghz
core m7 6y75 which is 1.2 ghz, turbo both cores at 2.9 ghz and turbo 1 core at 3.1 ghz

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1644



Here is the core i3 4130t @ 2.9 ghz. Now this is 4th generation core IPC but broadwell was just a die shrink so had barely any cpu improvements for the same ghz, now scale it down to compare it to the 5th generation core series which is used in the first cpu of the core m such as the core m5y51 (1.1 ghz which can turbo up to 2.6ghz)

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1367

As you can see the core i3 4130t smashes anything that is Athlon II and it requires something like a phenom II x4 of 945 or above to be in the same area on a multithreaded level.



But remember though core m is meant for cellphones and tablet style workloads (even though it never got small enough to be cell phones) those types of workloads are by its very nature very bursty. Now in things like the asus zenbook and the new macbook with retina display and one usb c port you can sustain the cpu for very long time periods due to the cooling system being the best there is without introducing a fan. In fact with the macbook apple is purposefully using cTDP up on the core m cpu, sure the cpu will eventually throttle but in most workloads the problem would be solved prior to throttling.

So to sum up what DarkZero said, it depends exactly on what you throw at it. Workloads of times measured in microseconds to a few seconds the intel will be better but any sustained workload and the amd will be better.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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I know that Intel has improved IPC pretty well compared to AMD's older chips like that Athlon II, but I don't know that they've improved it enough to overcome the massive gap between a 2.9Ghz triple-core, versus a 1.1Ghz dual-core.

I remember upgrading a Celeron 440 (2.0Ghz single-core C2D) to a Celeron 847 board (Sandy Bridge 1.1Ghz dual-core), and the 1.1Ghz SB felt faster. Some of that could have been due to the SSD, but I'm sure that the other half is that the CPU could no longer be bogged down by a single process chewing up 100% CPU time.
 

Xpage

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Jun 22, 2005
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I know that Intel has improved IPC pretty well compared to AMD's older chips like that Athlon II, but I don't know that they've improved it enough to overcome the massive gap between a 2.9Ghz triple-core, versus a 1.1Ghz dual-core.

I remember upgrading a Celeron 440 (2.0Ghz single-core C2D) to a Celeron 847 board (Sandy Bridge 1.1Ghz dual-core), and the 1.1Ghz SB felt faster. Some of that could have been due to the SSD, but I'm sure that the other half is that the CPU could no longer be bogged down by a single process chewing up 100% CPU time.

single core to dual core makes a huge difference. Plus a SSD gives you the large leap in perceived performance (and actually approximatelyy equivalent performance in ST)
 

Roland00Address

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Dec 17, 2008
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Put another way, the first macbook air (2008) was a shitty cpu which was a low clocked core 2 duo cpu (1.6 ghz or 1.8 ghz) and it was loads way better than atom but we are still talking about awesome netbook performance. Yet nowhere near 2.4 ghz core 2 quads on the desktop. In 2007 the ASUS EEE PC arrived which did not use intel atom but instead a downclock intel celeron which was based off the 1st gen intel core prior to the core 2duo

It was just about 2008 here we started seeing the first windows netbook cpus using the intel atom single cores and a few months later intel atom dual cores.

The 1st macbook air had hard drives or if you got really fancy and expensive the first 64gb ssd on a mac product. (Year 2008 was also the year of the 1st intel SSDs)

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In near christmas of 2008 Apple Macbook Airs had their first revision moving to nvidia integrated graphics and minidisplayport over mini dvi. In 2009 near christmass apple released lower clocked and cheaper macbook airs with 1.4 ghz core 2 duo cpus but even faster nvidia integrated graphics (it was the same gpu as a nvidia gt220 desktop gpu but downclocked).

In mid 2011 apple swapped to intel sandybridge cpus on the macbook air (17w) and a core 2 quad q6600 could now be beat on single threaded benchmakrs with the macbook airs, but only when the cpu was turboing and in anything multithreaded the cpu was 2 to 3 times faster than the macbook air. This was also the same timeframe when intel released their first ultrabook spec which was also based around these 17w sandybridge dual cores.

Now a days since 2015 you can now get "ultrabook performance with core m" in the asus zenbook and similar "cheap ultrabooks" with core m that shit all over the core 2 quads. Yet when it is in tablet form factor instead of something with real cooling you get the bursty type of cpu performance you expect out of cell phone.

High end ultrabooks also do not use core m but the superior core i cpus which are actually the same cpu die as the core m but a different and larger cpu package and a much higher tdp


intel_6thgencore_intro3.jpg


There are 5 dies from the factory for intel cpus now a days with skylake

Uses Platform I/O which puts the PCH on a seperate die but very close to the package
2 CPUs+GT2 Graphics
2 CPUs+GT3 Graphics+ED Ram

Uses Intel 100 for the PCH
2 CPUS+GT2 Graphics
4 CPUS+GT2 Graphics
4 CPUs+GT4 Graphics+ED Ram

But even though there are 5 dies from the factory only 4 different sockets / 4 different packages are made

intel-6th-gen-core-skylake-3-1280x527.jpg


Note the desktop S package is not shown in this 2nd image.

I know that Intel has improved IPC pretty well compared to AMD's older chips like that Athlon II, but I don't know that they've improved it enough to overcome the massive gap between a 2.9Ghz triple-core, versus a 1.1Ghz dual-core.

I remember upgrading a Celeron 440 (2.0Ghz single-core C2D) to a Celeron 847 board (Sandy Bridge 1.1Ghz dual-core), and the 1.1Ghz SB felt faster. Some of that could have been due to the SSD, but I'm sure that the other half is that the CPU could no longer be bogged down by a single process chewing up 100% CPU time.

Calling it a 1.1 ghz dual core (core m-5y51) is being disingenuous since it a 1.1 ghz dual core that turbos up to 2.6 ghz.

Calling it a 1.1 ghz dual core is like calling the core i5-2467m a 1.6 ghz cpu even though it turbo to 2.30 ghz or core i7 2677m a 1.8 ghz dual core even though it turbos to 2.9 ghz. (These are cpus they had in the 2011 macbook airs).

Your celeron 847 dual core sandybridge example was stuck at 1.1 ghz all the time for it had no turbo.
 
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Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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OK, that makes a lot of sense guys. Actually it reminded me that when I first bought the AMD machine it had been configured to use AMD's Cool'n'Quiet, but it had caused some performance issues that completely disappeared when I turned that feature off. So truly an Apple to oranges comparison.

Now with Core M, I'm looking at a much more advanced version of that but still it's not going to be operating at optimum speed with sustained load. But then again, my "feel" of OS browsing was that Core M was just slower, and I wouldn't have expected that to max out the turbo for any sustained period of time. It could be partly the OS itself, but now that I think back, I noticed that even just for OS X navigation, the MacBook Pros with the 15 Watt mobile CPUs felt considerably faster. This was even just for really, really basic use, with no real extended high loads.

I don't plan on buying until Kaby Lake, but given what was posted here, I'm thinking that even in 2017, I'll still gravitate more towards the U 15 Watt laptop processors over Core M.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
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For the most part you got it Eug, but some more followup.

Eug I recommend you read this anandtech article

Analyzing Intel Core M Performance: How 5Y10 can beat 5Y71 & the OEMs' Dilemma
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9117/analyzing-intel-core-m-performance

hich details how the low end 5Y10 broadwell core m (we would call this m3 if m3/m5/m7 were introduced backed then but intel changed their naming scheme with skylake) and compares it to the high end broadwell core M which was the 5Y71 (and if m3/m5/m7 were avaliable back then the 5Y71 would be like a m7)

OK, that makes a lot of sense guys. Actually it reminded me that when I first bought the AMD machine it had been configured to use AMD's Cool'n'Quiet, but it had caused some performance issues that completely disappeared when I turned that feature off. So truly an Apple to oranges comparison.

The idea of turbo is very much like AMD's cool n quiet introduced in 2003. And the first version of turbo really and utterly sucked much like the early cool n quiet. AMD Cool n quiet really did not get functional until the AMD Phenom II generation if I recall for it just did not know how to deal with multi core and even when it did deal with multi core it took forever to ramp up.

Now intel's current turbo, and amd's current turbo is much better than cool n quiet but it is still has the same problems since at its core its the same idea but just newer version of the technology

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Here are some more numbers from the review I linked but also other anandtech bench numbers. I recommend reading the review for they go in more detail but here is a smaller forum summary

So remember I linked a desktop 35w 2.9 ghz intel core i3 broadwell.

In Cinebench R15 multithread this 2.9 ghz part scored 292 so effectively 10 points for every 100 mhzs. (10.07 to be exact)

If you look at the 15w thinkpad t450s review which is a 2.3 ghz part but can turbo as a 2.7 ghz dual core or a 2.9 ghz single core it scores 281.90 so once again effectively 10 points for every 100 mhz (10.44 to be exact)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9623/the-lenovo-thinkpad-t450s-review/3

But things get a lot more complicated when you look at core m processors for it really depends on how good of cooling your chassis has

73470.png


The 5Y10 is a 800 mhz part that can turbo up to 2000 mhz on both cores

The 5Y71 is a 1200 mhz part that can turbo up to 2600 mhz on both cores or 2900 mhz on a single core. (they were not calling it at the time with the 1st gen core m with broadwell but with skylake they now use m3, m5, m7, this part would probably now call this the core m7 and the 5Y10 a m3 part)

So with the Dell, getting a score of 175 means about a score of 6.7 points for every 100 mhz (assumming max turbo of 2600 dual core), this device is fanless

Yoga 3 Pro has a score of 196 which means a score of about 7.5 points for every 100 mhz, this device has a fan

Asus Zenbook UX305 has a score of 210.66 but since the processor it uses tops out at 2000 mhz the score is 10.5. Note the Zenbook UX305 is fanless but it is in an ultrabook type chassis and Asus has a higher surface temp before the sensor kicks in to throttle the cpu.

Now for the macbook 2015 scores 209 with a core m that runs at 1100 mhz and turbos to 2400 mhz. This cpu should be the 5Y31 but with a cTDP up mode to boost the base speed to 1100 mhz instead of 900 mhz. I have not been able to find if the 2400 mhz is both cores or just a single core but if its both cores the 209 score yields an 8.8 score for every 100 mhz. Note this is running apple's osx for the score I quoted and not windows

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9136/the-2015-macbook-review/9

Note this review also compares it to the 2014 i5 macbook air (uses haswell's i5 4650u at 1.4 ghz base, 2.4 ghz dual core turbo, 2.7 ghz singe core turbo) with a score of 240 so a score of 10 for every 100 mhz for this haswell chip (remember broadwell was a die shrink and not a new architecture)


I don't plan on buying until Kaby Lake, but given what was posted here, I'm thinking that even in 2017, I'll still gravitate more towards the U 15 Watt laptop processors over Core M.

The nice thing about the core m processors is that they are often fanless and depending on how the OEM implements it I rather have a 10% cpu decrease (and slower turbo for it starts at a slower ghz before the turbo kicks in) for the fact of it being fanless and thus quiet and in theory more battery life for same battery size and sometimes lighter. That said if cpu performance is your goal then by all means go for the 15w or the 28w intel core U series

Note the core m series has the following tdp options with skylake. I assume similar cTDP options with kabylake but since it is not out yet I will focus on skylake

Core M
3.5 w, 4.5w (default), 7 watts

Core U series
7.5 w (cTDP down on the lower end graphic models)
9.5w (cTDP down on the better graphics models, aka iris graphics with the embedded memory)
15w, default
25w cTDP up on the 15w models but to higher tdps which is only avaliabile on the i7 models

The other U series parts which have the 28w tdp default and same socket as the 15w tdp options but they are considered the 28w U series (more on this in a second)

23w (cTDP down)
28w, default

So you are asking what is the difference between the 15w and 28w cpus besides what intel classifies them as model number and the supposed TDP or cTDP if they are the same sockets. Well it becomes more apparent if you look at the graphics, which has 3 options. 15w with HD520 (no edram and 24 EU), 15w with Iris 540 (ed ram with 48 eus), and 28w with Iris 550 (ed ram with 48 eus). Iris 540 vs Iris 550 which have the same amount of EUs and the same amount of ed ram but the 550 has a max graphic turbo of 1100 mhz vs the Iris 540 max graphic turbo of 1050. Now the 550 should be able to sustain that graphics for longer periods due to the higher tdps though and depending on the OEM configuration the 550 usually scores 20% higher in graphic games or graphic benchmarks.


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It is likely in the future with Kabylake, Intel will keep the wide variety of cTDP options and how OEM cooling truely matters so you can no longer predict CPU performance by looking at the model number but instead you have to read a tablet / ultrabook review. Take for instance these cinebench 15 numbers from PCWorld. I am linking it for they have numbers for the "thinnest notebook in the world with the HP Spectre 13.3. The spectre is cooled by two fans (see review) but even then its i7 runs slower than some i5s due to thermals in this benchmark.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3084...view-thin-doesnt-have-to-mean-compromise.html

hp_spectre_13.3_cinebench_r15_all_cores-100666901-orig.png


Regardless the spectre is still a very fast laptop which achieve the vast majority of performance its cpu is capable of and is faster than similar core m laptops. It is also a good amount faster than the current macbook which it is competing with (but the macbook is passively cooled) with the macbook being lighter but barely thicker.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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I had actually read that AT Core M article before, but skimmed it again now. This time it was more meaningful to me as I actually had context with real-world machines with which to compare, and I had the helpful explanations in this thread. And yes it all makes sense.

Interestingly, the 12" MacBook is something that I had been requesting for years, but now that it is finally here, it was a bit of a disappointment for me. The performance is actually OK as it's faster than my Core 2 Duo 2.26 P8400 MacBook Pro, but the fanless support by 5Y51 is a little bit of a double edged sword. Because Apple could now go thinner, they did, and in the process have changed the keyboard travel and dynamics of the trackpad, and IMO both for the worse. The keyboards of the MacBook Pros have a nicer feel IMO, and even the ForceTouch keyboard of the MacBook Pros feel a bit better than the ForceTouch keyboard of the MacBook. The latter seems strange to me, but nonetheless held true with multiple MacBooks tested. (Those were additional concerns in my mind that I had forgotten to mention earlier in the thread, that soured me on the MacBook a bit.)

I agree fanless is great, and in fact, I'd be OK to sacrifice even 30% performance for that with a very light weight and long battery life, but only if has an equivalent keyboard and trackpad, which it currently doesn't. I think my approach may be that if Apple decreases the weight of the MacBook Pros like I want them to, but keeps a superior keyboard and trackpad as compared to the MacBook, I'll probably buy a Pro. However, if in the goal of thinness Apple puts the MacBook non-Pro keyboard and trackpad in the Pro, I'll likely buy a MacBook non-Pro. Oh and the MacBook Kaby Lake Core M needs to have 10-bit HEVC decode support in hardware, too, which I believe it does. In Skylake M it's 8-bit I believe.

So, in truth, performance is not the primary concern here for me, but I do want something somewhat faster than the current MacBooks with the 5Y51. The performance of them is fine for what I do, but the performance boost over my old Core 2 Duo isn't as much as I had expected, and testing the MacBooks against the MBPs side-by-side can be a jarring experience as the latter are just so much faster, even for basic use.
 
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sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
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In terms of raw cpu power they are just about dead even. But the core m benefits from much better uncore performance. The core m will be faster at javascript and memory intensive applications. The athlon will be faster if running 3 floating point heavy loads. Not sure what is going to do that though...
 

waltchan

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Feb 27, 2015
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I have one Phenom II X2 570 that can go up to 4.10GHz dual-core. I know 2.90GHz is a little slow these days, but this Phenom 570 makes a good cheapest upgrade for only $21.