Cops shoot deaf man after he "ignores" verbal warning

[justoh]

Police serve the public. They should put the lives of others over their own. They were probably counting down from 5, hoping he wouldn't drop the stick. Consider how much damage the average person with a stick could do to multiple even completely unarmed cops. Not much. Don't they have sticks of their own?

 

[realibrad]

Police serve the public. They should put the lives of others over their own. They were probably counting down from 5, hoping he wouldn't drop the stick. Consider how much damage the average person with a stick could do to multiple even completely unarmed cops. Not much. Don't they have sticks of their own?

Small ones they have not seen in a while.

 

[mizzou]

I'm starting to believe this whole issue is more of an incompetent cop/poorly trained cop thing vs. a "racist cop" thing... I'll have to go back and look at the data again but I recall a study that found police involved shootings stats don't show any evidence of racism...If anything it's more a function of economic class.

That said, I still think race plays a factor in what happens AFTER the shooting, I.e. whether or not the involved officers are charged with a crime or successfully prosecuted.

The stats on shootings are not obvious. Assuredly race plays a role though because getting shot while unarmed can be justified but it may not either. That guy who got lit up at the gas station for reaching to get his wallet would not have been shot if he was a different race or gender. I don't think anyone can say the cop shot him because he was black, but the fact he was a black man weighed heavily in his decision making to determine if he was a threat or not. And apparently, just being a black man factored really heavily.

 

[realibrad]

The stats on shootings are not obvious. Assuredly race plays a role though because getting shot while unarmed can be justified but it may not either. That guy who got lit up at the gas station for reaching to get his wallet would not have been shot if he was a different race or gender. I don't think anyone can say the cop shot him because he was black, but the fact he was a black man weighed heavily in his decision making to determine if he was a threat or not. And apparently, just being a black man factored really heavily.

I hope you don't honestly think you have made an argument. All you have done is give your opinion.

 

[mizzou]

I hope you don't honestly think you have made an argument. All you have done is give your opinion.

Thanks for your opinion on my opinion

 

[Puffnstuff]

Police serve the public. They should put the lives of others over their own.

Amen to that brother.

 

[realibrad]

Thanks for your opinion on my opinion

So why frame your post as fact? My post is factually correct that you have given your opinion. That makes it inherently not opinion. Me hoping that you realize you have given opinion is not opinion.

 

[UNCjigga]

So why frame your post as fact? My post is factually correct that you have given your opinion. That makes it inherently not opinion. Me hoping that you realize you have given opinion is not opinion.

If you're looking for facts, here's a good paper to start with: http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf

That's the study I was referencing earlier. The point Mizzou may have been trying to make is the same conclusion from this study--police shootings do not empirically show evidence of racial bias (over 1000 shootings in 10 departments) but the overall police use of force does show a racial bias (everything from handcuffs and pepper spray to beatings and pushing to the ground.)

 

[bshole]

I hope you don't honestly think you have made an argument. All you have done is give your opinion.

LoL. That is all any of us are doing....

 

[pmv]

The question of how far cops are prepared to take any risks with their own safety in preference to killing the suspected threat, had me wondering about cases with British cops. In particular one I recall where one disarmed a mentally-ill person who was attacking someone with a samurai sword. This was achieved by 'stepping inside the swing radius of the sword' and thumping the guy.

This happened at about the same time as a widely-reported incident where US cops shot dead a mentally ill woman who was waving a small knife around.

Trying to google the event turned up a surprisingly large number of different cases here in the UK where cops disarmed mentally ill people waving swords about, most of them described as 'samurai' variety, from all over the country (I never knew we had such a major samurai problem), but also, honesty compels me to mention, a UK case where the sword wielder was shot dead by firearms officers, after failing to be incapacitated by CS gas spray.

There must be a way of quantifying such incidents to determine just to what extent US police are more inclined to employ lethal force in order to avoid any risk, and to what extent this actually reduces police deaths and injuries (and at what cost to the public).

The point about the US public having guns doesn't, to my mind, explain the quicker resort to lethal methods when dealing with mentally ill people visibly weilding knives - unless its common for people to threaten people with swords while secretly carrying a gun.

 

[JSt0rm]

The question of how far cops are prepared to take any risks with their own safety in preference to killing the suspected threat, had me wondering about cases with British cops. In particular one I recall where one disarmed a mentally-ill person who was attacking someone with a samurai sword. This was achieved by 'stepping inside the swing radius of the sword' and thumping the guy.

This happened at about the same time as a widely-reported incident where US cops shot dead a mentally ill woman who was waving a small knife around.

Trying to google the event turned up a surprisingly large number of different cases here in the UK where cops disarmed mentally ill people waving swords about, most of them described as 'samurai' variety, from all over the country (I never knew we had such a major samurai problem), but also, honesty compels me to mention, a UK case where the sword wielder was shot dead by firearms officers, after failing to be incapacitated by CS gas spray.

There must be a way of quantifying such incidents to determine just to what extent US police are more inclined to employ lethal force in order to avoid any risk, and to what extent this actually reduces police deaths and injuries (and at what cost to the public).

The point about the US public having guns doesn't, to my mind, explain the quicker resort to lethal methods when dealing with mentally ill people visibly weilding knives - unless its common for people to threaten people with swords while secretly carrying a gun.

That example requires real training. We hire people of average iq, a penchant for authoritarians and teach them to empty the clip into someone.

 

[Malogeek]

developmentally challenged. Apparently he walks around with the stick to chase away stray dogs.

Yes now that information has come to light. It's just a sad situation that was likely difficult to prevent.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yes now that information has come to light. It's just a sad situation that was likely difficult to prevent.

It's difficult to prevent shooting someone that doesn't pose an immediate threat to life and limb?

 

[Malogeek]

It's difficult to prevent shooting someone that doesn't pose an immediate threat to life and limb?

I have no idea, I wasn't there. How about "a sad situation that may or may not have been preventable by the police officers who may or may not have overreacted", is that better wording?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I have no idea, I wasn't there. How about "a sad situation that may or may not have been preventable by the police officers who may or may not have overreacted", is that better wording?

That's at least more acceptable. If I was a supervisor involved in this though, I'd need a damned good explanation as to why they felt they needed to shoot this man (with a gun or a taser), to avoid beating the shit out of those two with a pipe.

 

[Ajay]

Police serve the public. They should put the lives of others over their own. They were probably counting down from 5, hoping he wouldn't drop the stick. Consider how much damage the average person with a stick could do to multiple even completely unarmed cops. Not much. Don't they have sticks of their own?

I believe the tactical training that many in the police get now-a-days emphasizes military style weapon use and threat/friendly awareness. Not ideal for civilian policing.

 

[FIVR]

Cops in other countries seem to have much more self control. Here an example that was reported today. These cops are on video being attacked by a man holding a 12"+ huge butcher knife who just chopped the head of a toddler. Somehow they manage to not shoot the man.


Maybe we should send our cops to Russia to be trained properly?

 

[Malogeek]

That's at least more acceptable. If I was a supervisor involved in this though, I'd need a damned good explanation as to why they felt they needed to shoot this man (with a gun or a taser), to avoid beating the shit out of those two with a pipe.

It was my understanding that this is what tasers are perfect for, against assailants armed with no weapon or a melee weapon. I have no combat training but even if I did I wouldn't want to engage in close combat with anyone if I had a taser.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It was my understanding that this is what tasers are perfect for, against assailants armed with no weapon or a melee weapon. I have no combat training but even if I did I wouldn't want to engage in close combat with anyone if I had a taser.

If my dusty memory serves me, NLF weapons were originally granted as a replacement for lethal force, not a 'press this button to make the guy stop doing stuff' weapon.

They can (and have) cause(d) fatalities, and thus their usage should be restricted to instances where lethal force would otherwise be used, not 'weird guy with object in hand is walking around'.

Furthermore, I'm fairly certain police officers do have close combat training (I at least got a modicum of it as a military IT desk jockey). If these officers do not, that's a problem. If they do, but not enough, maybe discouraging the use of lethal weapons would encourage them to increase their fitness level, and unarmed combative training.

 

[realibrad]

If you're looking for facts, here's a good paper to start with: http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf

That's the study I was referencing earlier. The point Mizzou may have been trying to make is the same conclusion from this study--police shootings do not empirically show evidence of racial bias (over 1000 shootings in 10 departments) but the overall police use of force does show a racial bias (everything from handcuffs and pepper spray to beatings and pushing to the ground.)

You mean the paper that says this?

"In the end, however, without randomly assigning race, we have no definitive proof of discrimination. Our results are also consistent with mismeasured contextual factors."

 

[realibrad]

LoL. That is all any of us are doing....

Not true. Some try to form a coherent argument and others just give opinions.

 

[justoh]

The question of how far cops are prepared to take any risks with their own safety in preference to killing the suspected threat, had me wondering about cases with British cops. In particular one I recall where one disarmed a mentally-ill person who was attacking someone with a samurai sword. This was achieved by 'stepping inside the swing radius of the sword' and thumping the guy.

This happened at about the same time as a widely-reported incident where US cops shot dead a mentally ill woman who was waving a small knife around.

Trying to google the event turned up a surprisingly large number of different cases here in the UK where cops disarmed mentally ill people waving swords about, most of them described as 'samurai' variety, from all over the country (I never knew we had such a major samurai problem), but also, honesty compels me to mention, a UK case where the sword wielder was shot dead by firearms officers, after failing to be incapacitated by CS gas spray.

There must be a way of quantifying such incidents to determine just to what extent US police are more inclined to employ lethal force in order to avoid any risk, and to what extent this actually reduces police deaths and injuries (and at what cost to the public).

The point about the US public having guns doesn't, to my mind, explain the quicker resort to lethal methods when dealing with mentally ill people visibly weilding knives - unless its common for people to threaten people with swords while secretly carrying a gun.

So basically, stick, don't shoot. Sword, shoot, maybe. So many words...

 

[Sonikku]

That'll teach the man not to have a preexisting condition.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Apparently its been a busy week for police and disabled folks.
https://www.thenation.com/article/four-disabled-dead-in-another-week-of-police-brutality/

 

[FIVR]

Apparently its been a busy week for police and disabled folks.
https://www.thenation.com/article/four-disabled-dead-in-another-week-of-police-brutality/

like I said, no room for any other threads. We should just have a mega thread about cop killings. It will be the longest thread in ATPN history.