Cops make up laws now?

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
It's on Fox 11 news in LA tonight

Sweet. :laugh:


Question, what's the best way to hookup video in a car like that guy did?? I've wanted to do this for a while.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Parasitic

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: Parasitic
Of course I would, because that's a blantant speed trap, which is illegal in California (and I assume a lot more states as well).

That's how a lot of places clocked speeders up until radar units became cheap enough to purchase in quantity in the mid 80's. Where do you think the term "clocked" came from? Also planes and helicopters still do it to this day so I don't see how it could be a speed trap? What does it say in the CA traffic code that defines what a speed trap is?

CVC 40802

Speed Traps

40802. (a) A "speed trap" is either of the following:

(1) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.

(2) A particular section of a highway with a prima facie speed limit that is provided by this code or by local ordinance under subparagraph (A) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section 22352, or established under Section 22354, 22357, 22358, or 22358.3, if that prima facie speed limit is not justified by an engineering and traffic survey conducted within five years prior to the date of the alleged violation, and enforcement of the speed limit involves the use of radar or any other electronic device that measures the speed of moving objects.

It's funny that CA apparently prohibits calculating speed based on time and distance traveled, while in PA VASCAR is one of the only ways a local cop can measure your speed. Local cops can't use radar in PA.

When two states have laws that are the exact opposite of each other, it makes you wonder what the basis for those laws was.

 

[jlee]

I'm slightly familiar with this guy...here's some posts from him from another forum:

This is the only place in this area where they shoot laser 50% of the time I drive thru there. And every time I drive thru and they are out, I get hit 100% of that time. A couple weeks ago, I posted a video of StLouisX50 and I going thru with his jammer.

This time I was headed home around 3AM and saw he was out on the overpass. I made two runs past this officer and got the alert each time. On the second turn around, when I passed him, he backed up and jumped on the interstate right behind me. He then ran my license and had the dispatcher log my plate for the severe crime of turning around twice on the same overpass.

He followed me for a couple of miles and when I got off and went the other way, he did the same while following me lane for lane. I just kept going until I got out of his town again and he got off. He was just itching for a reason to stop me.

About 15 minutes later I heard his supervisor ask if I had come by again. I hadn't, but you can tell they were on the look out for me. Just wait I get a jammer, they'll be all over me.

BTW, I've never had any interaction with this small town PD.

LINK:
*Video removed for legal reasons. Contact me to get the new link.*

While I seem to be on a video roll...Another reason why having a scanner owns. I was headed home last weekend around 2AM, so I flipped on the scanner. Right as I did, I heard the county dispatcher saying a chase was headed into St. Louis County. Even better, it was headed right for me. I ended up being in front of the car when it went flying by. Then I took off after them and later down the highway saw her going up the wrong way on the entrance ramp to the interstate. I was following with the scanner traffic and the helicopters light. The chase ended back up on the highway with only one police car and myself behind her. She ended up going into IL where I lost her. I was driving well over 100MPH and passing cops that were blocking entrance ramps and they didn't do anything.

The chase ended up back downtown in St. Louis. They used stop sticks on her right in front of the Arch which blew her driver's side tires, but she kept going on the local streets well over 60MPH.

The chase was originally for traffic, but then they said she was wanted for assault on a deputy. They also kept saying she might be DWI. If she was, she drove better than most women sober. Didn't have one accident in all that time. Turned out she was also wanted for assault on a deputy.

On a side note, I thought the Hi-Lo siren wasn't aloud in the US? One of the officer is using it in this video.

So I just got a video camera and went out to use it tonight. I thought I would tape how well my Bel 945 did. I stuck it between my passenger seat and the head rest. I pulled behind an officer (about 1 1/2 car lengths between us) (ADDED NOTE: VERY BAD IDEA) in small municipality that is about a mile long and write tickets all day, every day. 59% of their towns revenue comes from traffic tickets. They have a Stalker Dual 2x and the officer had his forward antenna on.

So after about 2 minutes, the officer makes a U-turn, turns on his emergency lights, and makes another U-turn right behind me. He orders me out of the car. He asks me what I'm doing. I tell him. "5th amendment officer". He has to ask what that is. He then tells me that video taping the police is a felony.
NOTE: I live in Missouri. We have no eavesdropping laws.

I said freedom of press and he told me that didn't apply to me and that I wasn't the press. He said if I wanted to video tape them, I would have to get approval from the state and their city hall. He said, "I?ve actually passed the portion of law I need to understand the rights on the United States government and state of Missouri". But yet he doesn't know what the 5th amendment is?

After 15 minutes he decided to let me go, but told me if I came around again taping, he was going to arrest me. He also said he put a note on my name that other departments will see if I do the same thing.

I'm currently taking law classes now and have researched my state statutes and local ordinances pretty well. No where do I see it's illegal to video tape the police in public.

Even though we were outside my car and the windows were up (I locked the car when I got out) the video still ran on and you can hear most of the conversation. I'm working on uploading it to my computer and will post it on the internet if anyone is interested.

I'm considering going back so I do get arrested. Other cases like Robinson v. Fetterman show it is indeed a violation of my rights and in that case, the guy received $35,000 for the illegal arrest.

Now, I'm not saying this cop was in the right -- but you can't expect me to believe that this kid doesn't go looking for trouble.

 

[OutHouse]

why did the kid have a video camera mounted in his car?

 

[SketchMaster]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
It's on Fox 11 news in LA tonight

Sweet. :laugh:


Question, what's the best way to hookup video in a car like that guy did?? I've wanted to do this for a while.

This guy had a good idea.

 

[bluestrobe]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Now, I'm not saying this cop was in the right -- but you can't expect me to believe that this kid doesn't go looking for trouble.

I can see people defending his actions by saying he "was testing the police to make sure they are doing their jobs." I have a feeling this kid is well known in the area and these cops knew him already. I still don't see why you would stop in a parking lot at 2am so a friend can pick you up. It just seems a little odd that right after seeing a cop, he would pull into a parking lot with the cop two seconds behind him. I could say that a punk kid looking for trouble would get more attention around here than a common citizen. It also seems he's a scanner chaser that hints at other mental issues.

 

[PepePeru]

i really hope more people start doing this.

the officer's tape is missing...how convenient.

Brett Darrow is a true American hero, in my eyes.
This rampant abuse of power, the militarization of our police depts. cannot & should not stand.
this is fucking America, it was never intended to be a police state, which is what we are rapidly declining into, unless more people like Brett Darrow take the power back.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Now, I'm not saying this cop was in the right -- but you can't expect me to believe that this kid doesn't go looking for trouble.

I can see people defending his actions by saying he "was testing the police to make sure they are doing their jobs." I have a feeling this kid is well known in the area and these cops knew him already. I still don't see why you would stop in a parking lot at 2am so a friend can pick you up. It just seems a little odd that right after seeing a cop, he would pull into a parking lot with the cop two seconds behind him. I could say that a punk kid looking for trouble would get more attention around here than a common citizen. It also seems he's a scanner chaser that hints at other mental issues.

Definitely a scanner chaser - did you catch the quoted post above where he stated he was pushing 100mph to keep up with a police chase? Would be nice if he'd take a trip up here sometime, as we have some excellent departments in the area...

 

[jlee]

Found another post on radardetector.com, in which a member posts the contents of a private message he received from Brett:

That might have hurt my feelings if you were even partly right, but your not. That and the fact I just read this... http://officer.com/article/art...siteSection=1&id=35545 about a VA. deputy killing himself in a chase. That really made my day . One less idiot cop on the streets.
Oh and about the driving around at 2AM. If you could read (I don't expect you'd be able to since you're a cop), you would see I was on my way home. I was coming home from my girlfriends.

Well I'm not going to argue with you because I'm in a good mood (about the VA deputy) and you're kind of ruining it. But I will admit, the attitude from most officers at officer.com just make me want to go out and embarrass more LEOs on tape like this one...http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/15/1522.asp


-LEO Hater

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: SketchMaster

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
It's on Fox 11 news in LA tonight

Sweet. :laugh:


Question, what's the best way to hookup video in a car like that guy did?? I've wanted to do this for a while.

This guy had a good idea.

Maybe a vid cam like that mounted somehow is the best way to go. I was originally thinking of using a webcam with sff computer behind the front seat.

Altho I can't say I'd ever mount it like that with a wood rod crosswise at head level, muchless mounted directly on the headrest. Sort of defeats the purpose of airbags when you or your passenger is impaled during a nasty accident.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Now, I'm not saying this cop was in the right -- but you can't expect me to believe that this kid doesn't go looking for trouble.

I can see people defending his actions by saying he "was testing the police to make sure they are doing their jobs." I have a feeling this kid is well known in the area and these cops knew him already. I still don't see why you would stop in a parking lot at 2am so a friend can pick you up. It just seems a little odd that right after seeing a cop, he would pull into a parking lot with the cop two seconds behind him. I could say that a punk kid looking for trouble would get more attention around here than a common citizen. It also seems he's a scanner chaser that hints at other mental issues.

Definitely a scanner chaser - did you catch the quoted post above where he stated he was pushing 100mph to keep up with a police chase? Would be nice if he'd take a trip up here sometime, as we have some excellent departments in the area...

and NONE of that matters in this stop at all.

the officer was 100% om the wrong and should be fired and never allowed to be in such a position again.

i do agree the driver is a dick and deserves whatever trouble he gets into also.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Now, I'm not saying this cop was in the right -- but you can't expect me to believe that this kid doesn't go looking for trouble.

I can see people defending his actions by saying he "was testing the police to make sure they are doing their jobs." I have a feeling this kid is well known in the area and these cops knew him already. I still don't see why you would stop in a parking lot at 2am so a friend can pick you up. It just seems a little odd that right after seeing a cop, he would pull into a parking lot with the cop two seconds behind him. I could say that a punk kid looking for trouble would get more attention around here than a common citizen. It also seems he's a scanner chaser that hints at other mental issues.

Definitely a scanner chaser - did you catch the quoted post above where he stated he was pushing 100mph to keep up with a police chase? Would be nice if he'd take a trip up here sometime, as we have some excellent departments in the area...

and NONE of that matters in this stop at all.

the officer was 100% om the wrong and should be fired and never allowed to be in such a position again.

i do agree the driver is a dick and deserves whatever trouble he gets into also.

No, it doesn't. However, it illustrates a pattern of behavior with this kid...which brings us up to your 3rd comment, which I also agree with.

I don't think anyone has to worry about the officer keeping his job, either..not much chance unless departments are getting scarily desperate. :Q

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: waggy

i do agree the driver is a dick and deserves whatever trouble he gets into also.

I agree, the driver maybe a dick.. but we need more people like him to keep the cops in check. Cops without oversight is a BAD thing. But then if you really think about it, it really does take someone who's a little bit "off kilter" to have cameras installed, egging the cops, etc.

But without these "eccentric people", the cops would get away with even more.. after all, most people have other things to do than to tape cops.

I hope he sues and gets a lot of money. This will make it an incentive for other people to do the same thing. Hopefully, cops will then get more respectful (if they aren't already).

 

[jlee]

I'm a bit curious as to the officer's backstory..if this is typical behavior, or if he just had a day from hell..

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: waggy

i do agree the driver is a dick and deserves whatever trouble he gets into also.

I agree, the driver maybe a dick.. but we need more people like him to keep the cops in check. Cops without oversight is a BAD thing. But then if you really think about it, it really does take someone who's a little bit "off kilter" to have cameras installed, egging the cops, etc.

But without these "eccentric people", the cops would get away with even more.. after all, most people have other things to do than to tape cops.

If by "people like him", you mean people who look out for stuff, sure. If you mean people who deliberately 'push buttons', run 100mph down the highway to follow a pursuit/etc, well, then I disagree.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
I'm a bit curious as to the officer's backstory..if this is typical behavior, or if he just had a day from hell..

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: waggy

i do agree the driver is a dick and deserves whatever trouble he gets into also.

I agree, the driver maybe a dick.. but we need more people like him to keep the cops in check. Cops without oversight is a BAD thing. But then if you really think about it, it really does take someone who's a little bit "off kilter" to have cameras installed, egging the cops, etc.

But without these "eccentric people", the cops would get away with even more.. after all, most people have other things to do than to tape cops.

If by "people like him", you mean people who look out for stuff, sure. If you mean people who deliberately 'push buttons', run 100mph down the highway to follow a pursuit/etc, well, then I disagree.

Pushing buttons ok... he's not breaking the law.. going 100mph.. well, that deserves a ticket.

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: Phokus
He wasn't disrespectful, he was just asking questions before giving anything to the cops and he was in the RIGHT to do it, considering the cop was lying like a sack of sh*t the whole time. I mean, give me a break, the cop said he didn't use his turn signal (but he actually did) and was swerving and not staying in his lane (but he actually did). WTF are you supposed to do? You dirty cop apologists are whats wrong with this country. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Look, I really cannot defend that cop - and I haven't been. I'm not sure where you get "dirty cop apologist" out of anything I've said. I'll repeat for your obvious lack of reading comprehension, and I'll bold the pertinent parts so you won't skim over it (or clip it out of my quote):

If this douchebag filmmaker had complied with the officer's initial requests, he probably could have been asking the exact questions he was WHILE doing what the officer asked and there probably would have never been an issue.

and

By all means, question it but there's a time and a place to do it, and a manner in which to conduct yourself while doing it.

What I'm questioning is the filmmaker's actions. He was looking for a confrontation, tried to provoke one, and got it. It's not right how that cop acted - and if you've been reading my posts I haven't once said the cop was correct in his actions. My point is the filmmaker was out of line, too - he went looking for trouble, and he found it.

Edit: As for the last bit:

Originally posted by: Phokus
WTF are you supposed to do?

Hand over your license WHILE asking what the problem is. Don't ignore his directives, implying you're not going to hand it over before he gives you a good reason.

 

[manowar821]

I don't understand why some of you are annoyed with the kid for looking into or researching how cops treat people. These "peace-keepers" don't have much oversight, this is a way to figure out how these police act.

I'd call it research/probing, personally.

But of course, every college student is just an idiot looking for a fight or trouble, right? He couldn't possibly be actually interested in how cops conduct themselves, being a concerned citizen and all.

When I hear your type talk about how "stupid" or "punk-ass" the students who take politics into their own hands are, it really does make me loose any kind of respect for you. You're not wiser, you're not more educated, you're not automatically right. It doesn't matter how many people say "with age comes wisdom" because it's simply not true. It's all about your environment, and to me, these older people bashing the politically active younger crowd are the true "disrespectful little punk-asses".

This kid, unlike some, has done nothing wrong.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
I'm a bit curious as to the officer's backstory..if this is typical behavior, or if he just had a day from hell..

Exactly. Without 'priors', he should be reprimanded but not fired. He's embarrassed his family enough, and he didn't give out any false charges etc., and only lost his cool.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: Phokus
He wasn't disrespectful, he was just asking questions before giving anything to the cops and he was in the RIGHT to do it, considering the cop was lying like a sack of sh*t the whole time. I mean, give me a break, the cop said he didn't use his turn signal (but he actually did) and was swerving and not staying in his lane (but he actually did). WTF are you supposed to do? You dirty cop apologists are whats wrong with this country. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Look, I really cannot defend that cop - and I haven't been. I'm not sure where you get "dirty cop apologist" out of anything I've said. I'll repeat for your obvious lack of reading comprehension, and I'll bold the pertinent parts so you won't skim over it (or clip it out of my quote):

If this douchebag filmmaker had complied with the officer's initial requests, he probably could have been asking the exact questions he was WHILE doing what the officer asked and there probably would have never been an issue.

and

By all means, question it but there's a time and a place to do it, and a manner in which to conduct yourself while doing it.

What I'm questioning is the filmmaker's actions. He was looking for a confrontation, tried to provoke one, and got it. It's not right how that cop acted - and if you've been reading my posts I haven't once said the cop was correct in his actions. My point is the filmmaker was out of line, too - he went looking for trouble, and he found it.

Edit: As for the last bit:

Originally posted by: Phokus
WTF are you supposed to do?

Hand over your license WHILE asking what the problem is. Don't ignore his directives, implying you're not going to hand it over before he gives you a good reason.

No, you are an apologist, because you have to add the 'if only that kid did <blah blah blah>' trying to insinuate that the kid instigated it. You can't accept the fact that the kid was 100% right while the cop was 100% wrong. There IS NO QUALIFIER. The kid did not yell at the cop, he did not assault the cop, he wasn't even rude to the cop. The only statement that can be made is the officer was an unprofessional and CRIMINAL jackass. No need to comment on the kid's behavior.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: manowar821
I don't understand why some of you are annoyed with the kid for looking into or researching how cops treat people. These "peace-keepers" don't have much oversight, this is a way to figure out how these police act.

I'd call it research/probing, personally.

But of course, every college student is just an idiot looking for a fight or trouble, right? He couldn't possibly be actually interested in how cops conduct themselves, being a concerned citizen and all.

When I hear your type talk about how "stupid" or "punk-ass" the students who take politics into their own hands are, it really does make me loose any kind of respect for you. You're not wiser, you're not more educated, you're not automatically right. It doesn't matter how many people say "with age comes wisdom" because it's simply not true. It's all about your environment, and to me, these older people bashing the politically active younger crowd are the true "disrespectful little punk-asses".

This kid, unlike some, has done nothing wrong.

Nothing wrong at all, or nothing wrong in this specific video? There's open admittance of illegal/reckless speed (100mph+ in the middle of a police chase) that he posted on a public forum. He has a history of looking for trouble.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: Phokus
He wasn't disrespectful, he was just asking questions before giving anything to the cops and he was in the RIGHT to do it, considering the cop was lying like a sack of sh*t the whole time. I mean, give me a break, the cop said he didn't use his turn signal (but he actually did) and was swerving and not staying in his lane (but he actually did). WTF are you supposed to do? You dirty cop apologists are whats wrong with this country. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Look, I really cannot defend that cop - and I haven't been. I'm not sure where you get "dirty cop apologist" out of anything I've said. I'll repeat for your obvious lack of reading comprehension, and I'll bold the pertinent parts so you won't skim over it (or clip it out of my quote):

If this douchebag filmmaker had complied with the officer's initial requests, he probably could have been asking the exact questions he was WHILE doing what the officer asked and there probably would have never been an issue.

and

By all means, question it but there's a time and a place to do it, and a manner in which to conduct yourself while doing it.

What I'm questioning is the filmmaker's actions. He was looking for a confrontation, tried to provoke one, and got it. It's not right how that cop acted - and if you've been reading my posts I haven't once said the cop was correct in his actions. My point is the filmmaker was out of line, too - he went looking for trouble, and he found it.

Edit: As for the last bit:

Originally posted by: Phokus
WTF are you supposed to do?

Hand over your license WHILE asking what the problem is. Don't ignore his directives, implying you're not going to hand it over before he gives you a good reason.

No, you are an apologist, because you have to add the 'if only that kid did <blah blah blah>' trying to insinuate that the kid instigated it. You can't accept the fact that the kid was 100% right while the cop was 100% wrong. There IS NO QUALIFIER. The kid did not yell at the cop, he did not assault the cop, he wasn't even rude to the cop. The only statement that can be made is the officer was an unprofessional and CRIMINAL jackass. No need to comment on the kid's behavior.

The kid did instigate it. Whether you like it or not, that's how it is. Was it illegal on his part? Nope (well, refusal of a motor vehicle operator to provide a drivers' license to a peace officer upon request is illegal in my state, but he did eventually comply). However, there is no way you'll convince me that he was not attempting to provoke the officer. Again, is it illegal? Nope.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: manowar821
I don't understand why some of you are annoyed with the kid for looking into or researching how cops treat people. These "peace-keepers" don't have much oversight, this is a way to figure out how these police act.

I'd call it research/probing, personally.

But of course, every college student is just an idiot looking for a fight or trouble, right? He couldn't possibly be actually interested in how cops conduct themselves, being a concerned citizen and all.

When I hear your type talk about how "stupid" or "punk-ass" the students who take politics into their own hands are, it really does make me loose any kind of respect for you. You're not wiser, you're not more educated, you're not automatically right. It doesn't matter how many people say "with age comes wisdom" because it's simply not true. It's all about your environment, and to me, these older people bashing the politically active younger crowd are the true "disrespectful little punk-asses".

This kid, unlike some, has done nothing wrong.

Nothing wrong at all, or nothing wrong in this specific video? There's open admittance of illegal/reckless speed (100mph+ in the middle of a police chase) that he posted on a public forum. He has a history of looking for trouble.

Nothing wrong, in the video.

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: manowar821
I don't understand why some of you are annoyed with the kid for looking into or researching how cops treat people. These "peace-keepers" don't have much oversight, this is a way to figure out how these police act.

I'd call it research/probing, personally.

But of course, every college student is just an idiot looking for a fight or trouble, right? He couldn't possibly be actually interested in how cops conduct themselves, being a concerned citizen and all.

When I hear your type talk about how "stupid" or "punk-ass" the students who take politics into their own hands are, it really does make me loose any kind of respect for you. You're not wiser, you're not more educated, you're not automatically right. It doesn't matter how many people say "with age comes wisdom" because it's simply not true. It's all about your environment, and to me, these older people bashing the politically active younger crowd are the true "disrespectful little punk-asses".

This kid, unlike some, has done nothing wrong.

THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE OF THE COP IN THE VIDEO.

Police also have a job that puts their lives at daily risk for often not a great wage. First year cadets at the special Airport District here make low $30s. County departments are a little better. For that wage, the cops get to drive their crown vics to wherever the trouble is - be it to stand in the street making sure someone doesn't get run down while they change a tire, or document vehicle accident reports, or breaking up the nightly domestic abuse calls in the crappiest parts of your cities. They go to Kohl's and Best Buy to handle shoplifters. They keep the rowdiness down when the bars close and patrol for drunks on the road.

Occasionally, they're hurt or killed while doing these things.

So, have a little respect for the cops that, because they've done their jobs, that have kept your home from being broken into while you're at work today. Or keep people from stealing the plates or tags from your car.

Are they perfect? Are cops instantly made into some super-human fortress of perfection, impervious to any provocation, fear, temptation or mistakes when they get a badge? Nope. Most of them are normal people who are drawn to the life of a cop - a daily adrenaline shot. Some cops aren't good cops... some doctors aren't good doctors. Neither should be in their jobs. Sometimes it takes far too long to get them out of their jobs - often with tragic consequences - but that has NO reflection on the rest of the doctors out there, and it shouldn't have any reflection on the rest of the cops either.

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: Phokus
No, you are an apologist, because you have to add the 'if only that kid did <blah blah blah>' trying to insinuate that the kid instigated it. You can't accept the fact that the kid was 100% right while the cop was 100% wrong. There IS NO QUALIFIER. The kid did not yell at the cop, he did not assault the cop, he wasn't even rude to the cop. The only statement that can be made is the officer was an unprofessional and CRIMINAL jackass. No need to comment on the kid's behavior.

That's where we disagree.

The cop was 100% wrong. The kid was NOT 100% right.

How am I an apologist if I'm not defending the cop?

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: Phokus
No, you are an apologist, because you have to add the 'if only that kid did <blah blah blah>' trying to insinuate that the kid instigated it. You can't accept the fact that the kid was 100% right while the cop was 100% wrong. There IS NO QUALIFIER. The kid did not yell at the cop, he did not assault the cop, he wasn't even rude to the cop. The only statement that can be made is the officer was an unprofessional and CRIMINAL jackass. No need to comment on the kid's behavior.

That's where we disagree.

The cop was 100% wrong. The kid was NOT 100% right.

How am I an apologist if I'm not defending the cop?

Because it's absolutely indefensible so you try to add the kid as some sort of qualifier to your statement that the cop was 100% wrong. The kid was 0% wrong. He wasn't rude, loud, abusive, or violent. The only thing the kid did "wrong" was he knew his rights and took pro-active steps to protect himself from dirty cops. :roll: