COP25 going down in flames

[cytg111]

What a shit show.

Climate Disasters Loom as Madrid COP25 Delegates Act Like Deer Caught in the Headlights

There is a high risk that the UN climate change conference, known as COP25, currently underway in Madrid will make climate change worse, not better.

www.forbes.com

Maybe its time to give up and accept that climate is going to fuck over our species.
Its sort of Ironic : Homo Sapiens, unable to regulate themselves eventually gets regulated by the planet.

 

[Greenman]

In that carbon pricing structure, who pays, and who gets paid?

Btw. It's a given that we'll be responsible for our own demise, the only question has been the how.

 

[senseamp]

Yeah, going to drown and bake our own descendents, because we really couldn't be bothered to use less fuel or switch to renewable energy. We had a nice run, but all good things come to an end.

 

[cytg111]

In that carbon pricing structure, who pays, and who gets paid?

Btw. It's a given that we'll be responsible for our own demise, the only question has been the how.

Thats a staggering lack of vision and imagination.

But yea ok!
Everything that goes up must come down.
True.
Everything that has an beginning has an end.
True.
All good things comes to an end.
Alllrighty then.

Man you are so winning this discussion. You are killing it! You feel it?

To the rest of us, its about actually being able to see the end. We can see the end. Its approaching. And we are doing nothing. If we did something about it, that may open up another window for Homo Sapiens to go another 1000 years, settle Mars, the rest of the System .. Going interstellar. Who knows and besides the point entirely. The point is whether to go quietly into the night or NOT. Problem is that morons be dragging the rest of us into the night with them.

Maybe we have a different sense of self too: I identify by myself, my lineage and my people(other apes) now and going forward. I get a strong indication and feeling that a lot of these morons only identify by them selves right now.

 

[pmv]

Thats a staggering lack of vision and imagination.

But yea ok!
Everything that goes up must come down.
True.
Everything that has an beginning has an end.
True.
All good things comes to an end.
Alllrighty then.

Man you are so winning this discussion. You are killing it! You feel it?

To the rest of us, its about actually being able to see the end. We can see the end. Its approaching. And we are doing nothing. If we did something about it, that may open up another window for Homo Sapiens to go another 1000 years, settle Mars, the rest of the System .. Going interstellar. Who knows and besides the point entirely. The point is whether to go quietly into the night or NOT. Problem is that morons be dragging the rest of us into the night with them.

Maybe we have a different sense of self too: I identify by myself, my lineage and my people(other apes) now and going forward. I get a strong indication and feeling that a lot of these morons only identify by them selves right now.

I doubt climate change will be 'the end of the world' (though I'm increasingly sure it will be very bad, with very nasty social and political consequences as the effects kick in - those social and political effects probably being worse than the direct effect of climate change itself) but in general I think it is true that we will bring about our own demise. It's why I doubt there are other intelligent civilisations out there. Intelligent life probably arises many times all over the universe, but the question is - how long does it last before it does itself in? I suspect hardly any time at all relative to the age of the universe.

We haven't even come close to the longevity of the dinosaurs (who get unfairly invoked as a metaphor for things that fail to adapt).

You say it's "the morons" but it's in the nature of a species like homo sapiens that many will behave like morons, and those morons will get to determine the overall direction.

The immense difficulties of getting anything done about climate change is an indicator of how bad we are at solving collective action problems.

 

[cytg111]

I doubt climate change will be 'the end of the world' (though I'm increasingly sure it will be very bad, with very nasty social and political consequences as the effects kick in - those social and political effects probably being worse than the direct effect of climate change itself) but in general I think it is true that we will bring about our own demise. It's why I doubt there are other intelligent civilisations out there. Intelligent life probably arises many times all over the universe, but the question is - how long does it last before it does itself in? I suspect hardly any time at all relative to the age of the universe.

We haven't even come close to the longevity of the dinosaurs (who get unfairly invoked as a metaphor for things that fail to adapt).

You say it's "the morons" but it's in the nature of a species like homo sapiens that many will behave like morons, and those morons will get to determine the overall direction.

The immense difficulties of getting anything done about climate change is an indicator of how bad we are at solving collective action problems.

Climate change wont be the end of the world obviously, but consider Elons consideration that there is a limited open window for civilization to be space faring.. Its quite self evident, if we dont get off this rock we dont get off this rock. I see no reason to buy into "intelligent civilizations doing them selves in all over the verse" theory, it has zero evidence to back it up, we know of one statistical data point and that story is still getting written as we type these words.

Yes, morons, like one celled bacteria that consumes it surroundings until it starves it self to death.

Bottom line, whats the difference between this one celled organism and 300 billion neurons doing fusion and advanced quantum mechanics? Nothing.

 

[Greenman]

Our civilization isn't moving to mars, or the moon. A few may reside in either place for short periods of time, but that's it. We aren't going to build vast generation ships to move our population to a different star. We're here, on earth, everything we'll ever be will happen here, our death will happen here.

btw, I'm still wondering where the money goes. Does anyone know?

 

[cytg111]

then by my definition you are in a death cult

 

[Greenman]

then by my definition you are in a death cult

We all are. Every day you live is one less day you're going to live.

 

[Vic]

Our civilization isn't moving to mars, or the moon. A few may reside in either place for short periods of time, but that's it. We aren't going to build vast generation ships to move our population to a different star. We're here, on earth, everything we'll ever be will happen here, our death will happen here.

btw, I'm still wondering where the money goes. Does anyone know?

Much like the future, money is just an abstract with no intrinsic value of its own, so you shouldn't care about money any more than you care about the future.

/s

But seriously, we have no more idea what the future possibly holds than our primitive ancestors did.

And the money goes to offset the costs of more carbon efficient technologies. The purpose is to reduce the potential competitive business advantage for a company to externalize its carbon impact.

Question for you: as a California resident, do you enjoy that your tax dollars are paying for the clean up of the Exide battery plant in LA? For decades, the Exide executives cut costs on their environmental compliance and put the 'savings' right in theirs (and their shareholders) pockets. Then when the plant reached functional obsolescence, they took out the profits, closed the plant, and re-organized the company through bankruptcy to insulate themselves legally. The end result being that the taxpayers got saddled with the $200 million in clean up costs that Exide should have been paying all along. Does your fatalism say that this is no big deal too?

 

[BUTCH1]

It could be climate change, or a pandemic event or nuclear exchange that does us in. Meanwhile, planet Earth will shake off humanity like a dog shakes off a flea and life, (other forms) will continue.

 

[Greenman]

And the money goes to offset the costs of more carbon efficient technologies. The purpose is to reduce the potential competitive business advantage for a company to externalize its carbon impact.

That's what I wanted to know. Would you happen to have a link to a description of the venture and who runs it? I'd appreciate it.

 

[Vic]

That's what I wanted to know. Would you happen to have a link to a description of the venture and who runs it? I'd appreciate it.

That is what this conference is working to establish. This an international effort, so there isn't going to be a single venture with a 'who runs it.' The intent is to create the framework for a marketplace.

 

[Greenman]

That is what this conference is working to establish. This an international effort, so there isn't going to be a single venture with a 'who runs it.' The intent is to create the framework for a marketplace.

Got it, thank you.

 

[Jaskalas]

Our civilization isn't moving to mars, or the moon. A few may reside in either place for short periods of time, but that's it. We aren't going to build vast generation ships to move our population to a different star. We're here, on earth, everything we'll ever be will happen here, our death will happen here.

You have a terrible lack of imagination here, robotics will enable a great deal more space travel. No need for a generation ship. It'll be more like a seed ship, where our creations become our creators. After they spend thousands / million years to reach our destination(s). Assuming our species survives long enough to reach that level of tech and deploy it. We're probably only 100 years from being able to do it, and 200 from actually launching one.

Advances in tech continue to happen at ever increasing paces.

 

[BUTCH1]

You have a terrible lack of imagination here, robotics will enable a great deal more space travel. No need for a generation ship. It'll be more like a seed ship, where our creations become our creators. After they spend thousands / million years to reach our destination(s). Assuming our species survives long enough to reach that level of tech and deploy it. We're probably only 100 years from being able to do it, and 200 from actually launching one.

Advances in tech continue to happen at ever increasing paces.

We've already grabbed the low hanging fruit as far as propulsion goes, we can and have detected planets in other solar systems and make some observations about their makeup. The devil is in the details though, if we embarked on such a massive and expensive "mission" and your target planet, (many light years away) turns out to be uninhabitable the mission is doomed for failure. Robots will be much better and enable a great deal of automated function but until a viable means of propulsion is achieved this whole "interstellar travel" is nothing more than a pipe dream.

 

[balloonshark]

I wish everyone had a chance to go up in space and take a look at that thin layer of atmosphere that protects us from extreme heat, cold and radiation. I also wish everyone could go to the moon and look back on our planet and realize that everyone you love lives on that blue dot. Maybe then people would have a better appreciation for there planet, people, plants, animals, water, air, land and resources.