Cop shoots 75 year old woman with dementia

[brycejones]

Seems like the police in the UK are able to take down an aggressive man with a machete without putting 80 bullet holes in him. I guess our police suck compared to UK police if they can't even take down an old lady without lethal force.

It’s almost like spending 4x the amount of time training officers means something.

Average training in the us is about 600 hours with fewer than 21 hours spent on training to de-escalate situations vs 71 hours spent on fire arms training. The UK spends over 2000 hours training officers.

We literally train our cops to shoot first.

 

[rommelrommel]

Seems like the police in the UK are able to take down an aggressive man with a machete without putting 80 bullet holes in him. I guess our police suck compared to UK police if they can't even take down an old lady without lethal force.

That worked because he wanted to be left alone, not to kill. If he had charged one of those cops with intent they likely would have been wounded quite seriously or killed. I don't think no guns is the answer either.

 

[darkswordsman17]

We also train police in the US to be scared out of their minds, so there's that. And that's why they perpetually get off by claiming they were afraid, even if they were supposedly so afraid they ran at a car, jump on the hood and fire 20 rounds in.

Cops aren't needed for probably 75% of the stuff cops are called for, so that definitely doesn't help things either. That doesn't excuse that doing so tends to make things worse, since the cops go running in ready to shoot because they've been trained to shit their pants first and ask questions later.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Well if she wasn't being a threat the family wouldn't have called the police in the first place so he entered under the premise of encountering a threat. Maybe he could've done better but then again we don't know his equipment loadout nor were we present not to mention that most of the people commenting have zero LEO time.

People with mental illness need the proper care so it never reaches this point and if they are threats then they should be Baker Acted into an institutional setting.

 

[brycejones]

Well if she wasn't being a threat the family wouldn't have called the police in the first place so he entered under the premise of encountering a threat. Maybe he could've done better but then again we don't know his equipment loadout nor were we present not to mention that most of the people commenting have zero LEO time.

People with mental illness need the proper care so it never reaches this point and if they are threats then they should be Baker Acted into an institutional setting.

Well that’s a load of bullshit.

 

[eelw]

not to mention that most of the people commenting have zero LEO time.

Who cares if the majority of us here have no training. Most of us know when being called in to investigate a mental distress call of a 75 year old doesn’t require going in with guns blazing.

 

[VW MAN]

Well if she wasn't being a threat the family wouldn't have called the police in the first place so he entered under the premise of encountering a threat. Maybe he could've done better but then again we don't know his equipment loadout nor were we present not to mention that most of the people commenting have zero LEO time.

People with mental illness need the proper care so it never reaches this point and if they are threats then they should be Baker Acted into an institutional setting.

You do know that the mentally ill 18 year old white supremacists murderer in Buffalo was heavily armed with guns and had just shot over a dozen people was talked down, right? A sad little old lady with mental issues and a knife I guess was more of a threat than that guy since the cops had to shoot and kill her, right?

 

[Captante]

That worked because he wanted to be left alone, not to kill. If he had charged one of those cops with intent they likely would have been wounded quite seriously or killed. I don't think no guns is the answer either.

You are correct.... fortunately we've already got this covered!

Black Tactical Nightstick (KarateMart = both links)

Expandable Polycarbonate Baton

In tight spaces I would think the baton would be the safer bet but either one of these would do the job along with MANY other non-lethal (AND inexpensive!) weapons.

 

[rommelrommel]

You are correct.... fortunately we've already got this covered!

Black Tactical Nightstick (KarateMart = both links)

Expandable Polycarbonate Baton

In tight spaces I would think the baton would be the safer bet but either one of these would do the job along with MANY other non-lethal (AND inexpensive!) weapons.

Funny.

 

[Captante]

Funny.

It is... but I was also being serious.

Cops have been carrying night-sticks (aka: clubs) since they existed and although you certainly can kill a person with one it's a lot tougher then just opening fire.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

We also train police in the US to be scared out of their minds, so there's that.

They have good reason to be on edge. The sheer number of firearms they encounter in the most basic os interactions means any one of them can go very, very bad in a heartbeat. Traffic stops and domestics are two of the leading deadliest

And that's why they perpetually get off by claiming they were afraid, even if they were supposedly so afraid they ran at a car, jump on the hood and fire 20 rounds in.

Cleveland. I believe it was 175 rounds.

 

[Captante]

They have good reason to be on edge. The sheer number of firearms they encounter in the most basic os interactions means any one of them can go very, very bad in a heartbeat. Traffic stops and domestics are two of the leading deadliest

This is 100% accurate.... even good cops are afraid and stressed out because they have a dangerous and (largely) thankless job.

Being a cop in the US has gotten much worse as a career over the years too and at this point VERY few of our "best & brightest" want anything to do with the job which only compounds the problem. (sorta like politics)

 

[Fenixgoon]

This is 100% accurate.... even good cops are afraid and stressed out because they have a dangerous and (largely) thankless job.

Being a cop in the US has gotten much worse as a career over the years too and at this point VERY few of our "best & brightest" want anything to do with the job which only compounds the problem. (sorta like politics)

if only there were a way to reduce the number of guns.....

there are plenty of reasons why officers shoot quickly and/or are shitty officers

"better judged by 12 than carried by 6"
thin blue line
training time biased towards firearms/lethal force vs. de-escalation
ability to discriminate against candidates who are too smart (yes, there's a lawsuit about it. intelligence is not a protected class)
not holding officers accountable (see: any form of police misconduct)
punishing officers who DON'T use lethal force (an officer refused to shoot a man attempting suicide cop and won a wrongful termination lawsuit)
bias from dealing with repeated stress/trauma - if all you see is the worst of society, guess what, you'll end up thinking that's how things *always* are.

if we can train soldiers to not fire on civilians in urban environments, where someone could literally pop out of a window to shoot and kill - we can train police to de-escalate

 

[Captante]

if we can train soldiers to not fire on civilians in urban environments, where someone could literally pop out of a window to shoot and kill - we can train police to de-escalate

You would certainly think so with the money we spend on them.

In actuality it appears we cannot.

 

[darkswordsman17]

They have good reason to be on edge. The sheer number of firearms they encounter in the most basic os interactions means any one of them can go very, very bad in a heartbeat. Traffic stops and domestics are two of the leading deadliest



Cleveland. I believe it was 175 rounds.

No they don't. Or they wouldn't if they didn't immediately go into every single situation looking to escalate it. 9 times out of 10 the situation wouldn't be one they'd need to pull a gun for if they'd just not immediately run in with guns out screaming. Or do you want us to pull all the times they did that and then found out it was a fucking kid holding a toy. Most of the cops I know are gun nuts as well so if they're scared of guns its their own goddamn faults there are so many of them.

I was talking specifically about the single cop that claimed he was afraid for his life when he ran and jumped on the hood and then emptied his firearm twice (reloading between) into the car. Which is totally something that someone whom was terrified would do is run toward the thing they were supposedly afraid of and jump on the hood. Don't forget the entire situation happened because one of the cops shit has pants thinking a backfiring car was a gun and then dozens of police cars started chasing the car.

 

[sdifox]

That worked because he wanted to be left alone, not to kill. If he had charged one of those cops with intent they likely would have been wounded quite seriously or killed. I don't think no guns is the answer either.

Pretty sure riot shields stop machetes.

 

[rommelrommel]

Pretty sure riot shields stop machetes.

Yeah, and once quite a few cops and shields are there they aren't a bad solution. I would not make a shield my first choice to deal with knife wielder who was actively trying to stick said knife in me.